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Thread: Vanquish VS4-10 Origin Limited Build/Thoughts Issues

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Old 07-16-2018, 02:25 AM   #1
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Default Vanquish VS4-10 Origin Limited Build/Thoughts/Issues

My VS4-10 arrived Friday (Amain preorder) and I got to building on Saturday. I don't normally do build threads (and this isn't one), but I ran into a couple issues and haven't found anybody talking about it, so thought I'd start a thread for discussion.

Here's the end result, for those who don't want to read to page 5.






Initial Thoughts
It's nice. I've built 50ish kits from all different manufacturers over the last 30 years. This one is *really* nice. That said, I also had high expectations, and maybe that set me up to be a little overly critical. Keep that in mind for what follows below.

Tires/Foams: Super sticky! They feel more sticky grippy than the Pitbull Alien-compound tires I'm going to install on this vehicle. The tires are narrow, so standard CI foams would need to me narrowed to fit properly. The included foams are very firm open-cell, so more what I would use for trail running then crawling typically, although the tires are so sticky the combo may be great for crawling too, will have to try it and see. The foams are correctly sized for these tires, which means they are too narrow for most tires this diameter. Note that my choice to run the Pitbull Rock Beast XLs is purely asthetic. The narrow tire/rounded shoulder look isn't what I was going for on this build, but I suspect it will perform well and I'll be running these on a different vehicle.

Body: Feels tough, but still flexible enough. Zero thin spots. Overspray film is much more tough than others I've worked with, so a bit more challenging to cut/tear precisely. Wish the body post holes weren't pre-drilled. Really like the light buckets and other scale details. Looks good enough that I don't care that it isn't a licensed replica. Wish my backordered Q-series lights would ship.

Build Specs

In addition to base kit:
Mamba X ESC
Holmes Puller Pro 540 3500kv
JX BLS-HV7146MG steering servo
Incision black-diamond shock shafts
Vanquish servo arm
Vanquish 2.2 Vintage SHR wheels
Rock Beast XL 1.9 tires with CI foams
Spectrum DX3R

Issues
On step 2. My ring/spool/bearing/carrier assembly won't slide into the front axle housing. It also won't slide into the rear axle housing. I built the rear assemble and it will fit into the rear axle housing, but not into the front axle housing. So it seems like one set of bearing carriers AND the front axle housing are out of tolerance. Anyone else seen this before (on this or any vanquish axle)? Vanquish service contacted, will update with response.
UPDATE 7/16: Heard back from VP Support first thing Monday morning requesting pictures of the issue. I've attached a couple of the pictures I took for them.
UPDATE #2 7/16: VP Support sent me a tracking number for new bearing retainers. Hope that is the solution!
UPDATE 7/17: Received the new bearing retainers the next day! The assembly now drops into the front housing freely, even more clearance than the rear assembly has in the rear housing. Notably these retainers are tight on the bearings, where the first 4 were not. I was able to press one bearing in by hand, the other require use of a bench vice.

On Page 12, the 4 metal ball inserts (IRC00010) for the top of the shocks are missing. Or the instructions are wrong and actually want to you use the plastic ball off the shock parts tree. Did anyone get metal balls for the shock tops?
UPDATE 7/24: VP Support responded to my query about this saying that it is a misprint in the manual. The correct part number is IRC00210, which is the plastic hollow ball on the parts tree. This is the part I used originally, and find that it has too much slop side-to-side, so adding o-rings on either end of the ball insert may be helpful.

Does not explain that the spacer under the trans is optional. Also, at the point of the build where the transmission is installed, it is impossible to know if the spacer is needed or not, because it depends on the rear upper link range of motion, and the links aren't installed yet.

Does not show the shims for the pinion shaft, or how many are needed. If I hadn't seen Harley's axle build video first I probably would have put them inside the pumpkin, or left them out entirely.

No servo arm is provided. Instructions say to use VPS02410 (24mm 2-hole arm). Since that info wasn't available in advance I had gotten the 20mm 1-hole arm, but with that arm I am not able to get full left-hand lock due to interference with the panhard mount.

There are multiple mounting positions for the rear bumper, however the clearances/hole alignment is such that the most tucked-in position cannot be used.

Does not specify which wheel hub offset should be used, two offsets are provided, #4 and #7 (Incision). What I would really have liked to know is what the minimum SLW offset is for the Vanquish wheels I plan to run.

Wheels: Plastic feels really strong. Beadlock screw holes were slightly undersized, so getting the screws started was a chore. Also, SLS hubs are a signature Vanquish standard. I totally get including plastic wheels, but IMHO they should have used aluminum SLS hubs, so that you could easily get the Vanquish wheels of choice and be GTG. Until I can get the axles built and under the body, I still don't know what hubs to order to go with my Vanquish aluminum wheels.

Molded grill mounting: Instructions do not specify the cap-head screw size to use to attache the radiator to the grill. If you happen to grab the ones you have left over from earlier in the build at this point they will pop out through the front of the grill.

Rear light buckets: The exterior trim rings are not symmetrical (that part is good), but this isn't clearly called out in the instructions. The instructions do show the orientation if you look closely enough, however the orientation shown for the left trim ring is incorrect. Also, the mold markings are on the outside of the trim ring, so if you install it "good side out", its actually on backwards.

Overall instructions could use a revision. They're pretty good, but there are mistakes here and there, to the point that I wouldn't recommend this kit for a first time builder. Not that I would typically recommend any $900 kit for a first time builder. Also I'm sure vanquish will work out the bugs.

Pics
Remember, *not* a build thread. There were some angles I couldn't find anywhere online, so just took a few of current progress, in case it can satisfy anyone's curiosity. See attached images.

Final Thoughts
There's definitely a few negatives.
1) The thing I thought Vanquish would definitely nail (axles) is a total show stopper. They have a great rep for support. Since they launched this right before the weekend, I wish that had included weekend support, but in any case I'm sure this will be handled, and I'll wait to write any product reviews until it is.
2) The painted steel hardware instead of black oxide feels a bit chintzy. Unsure what grade the steel is for the fasteners, or if it is stainless under the paint? Except for the small diff-cover screws, which are unpainted stainless.
3) There's a lot of Incision in this, and I hadn't fully realized what that meant until building it. Various folks characterized this release as having all the vanquish upgrades in one box, but I am immediately seeing a few things I wish were upgraded to existing Vanquish products. The places that stands out the most are the drive shaft/axle universals, which are the non-rebuildable type. Would have liked to see the vanquish CVD or rebuildable universal instead, even at a price bump. Also, the 3 piece trans outdrive makes me uneasy, especially with no slipper. Would have like to see a 1-piece outdrive. Like I said at the start, I had high expectations, so may be nit picking a bit here.

Positives:
It's reaaaaally nice. Can't wait to get the other axle on it so I can see what it can do! More specifically, it hits exactly the balance I tend to go for of mechanical toughness/capability, with the convenience of a lexan body (with light buckets)! I've built a bunch of hardbodies in the past, but they don't see much runtime. I really like the direction Vanquish went with this. Hopefully they get something constructive out of this post that can go into future refinement of their product.

Scale Builders Guild and Harley Designs have both done a lot to get info out on this kit, but if you've got any questions for an unsponsored builder, don't hesitate to ask!
Attached Images
       

Last edited by rohrej; 07-25-2018 at 11:56 PM. Reason: Response from VP support on top shock mount
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Old 07-16-2018, 06:50 AM   #2
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Default Re: Vanquish VS4-10 Origin Limited Build/Thoughts Issues

For a $900 kit, the fact that the axle cannot be built out of the box is inexcusable. I'm sure support will take care of you, but still....
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Old 07-16-2018, 07:04 AM   #3
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Default Re: Vanquish VS4-10 Origin Limited Build/Thoughts Issues

Did you try inserting the bearings into the carrier rather than bearings onto the spool as it shows in your photo? They're a tight fit, and sometimes having them seated improperly is all it takes. Just a thought, as each piece is machined exactly the same way, and none of the dozen or so test units had this issue.
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Old 07-16-2018, 09:25 AM   #4
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Default Re: Vanquish VS4-10 Origin Limited Build/Thoughts Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by imthatguy View Post
Did you try inserting the bearings into the carrier rather than bearings onto the spool as it shows in your photo? They're a tight fit, and sometimes having them seated improperly is all it takes. Just a thought, as each piece is machined exactly the same way, and none of the dozen or so test units had this issue.
Hi Matt,

Thanks for the idea. Yes, I tried various assembly variants, including the way you suggest. Tried reversing bearings, etc. anything I could think of that might gain a few thousandths tolerance.

Interestingly, none of my bearing carriers are a tight fit, the bearings easily fall in/out of them. Even with CNC machines the tooling wears over time, so parts produced later in the run will be ever-so-slightly different than earlier parts.
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Old 07-16-2018, 09:34 AM   #5
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Default Re: Vanquish VS4-10 Origin Limited Build/Thoughts Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by OSRC View Post
For a $900 kit, the fact that the axle cannot be built out of the box is inexcusable. I'm sure support will take care of you, but still....
Yeah, there are always risks to being an early-adopter, but I was sure the axles wouldn't be the issue. I could easily work around missing screws or some other minor mess-up.

I'm so tempted to take a dremel to it just to get it built! Trying to be cool and wait for a reply from customer service.
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Old 07-16-2018, 10:13 AM   #6
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Default Re: Vanquish VS4-10 Origin Limited Build/Thoughts Issues

I'll alert Josh to this thread for you.
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Old 07-16-2018, 10:25 AM   #7
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Default Re: Vanquish VS4-10 Origin Limited Build/Thoughts Issues

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Originally Posted by imthatguy View Post
I'll alert Josh to this thread for you.
Thanks! Also just heard back from VP Support, requesting pictures. Top post updated.
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Old 07-16-2018, 10:43 AM   #8
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Default Re: Vanquish VS4-10 Origin Limited Build/Thoughts Issues

Thanks for your thoughts!
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Old 07-16-2018, 10:47 AM   #9
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Default Re: Vanquish VS4-10 Origin Limited Build/Thoughts Issues

I'd like to know how the pinion bearings fit into the machined portion of the housing? It's not very promising when you said the carrier bearings fell into place. IMO that is too loose to properly support the bearing and preserve gear mesh.

What size are the pinion bearings?
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Old 07-16-2018, 11:21 AM   #10
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Default Re: Vanquish VS4-10 Origin Limited Build/Thoughts Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by meatmonkey View Post
I'd like to know how the pinion bearings fit into the machined portion of the housing? It's not very promising when you said the carrier bearings fell into place. IMO that is too loose to properly support the bearing and preserve gear mesh.

What size are the pinion bearings?
The inner pinion bearing is 5x14x5 mm, and the outer pinion bearing is 5x11x4 mm.

The bearings slide into the axle housing easily only if perfectly aligned, and will slide out under their own weight, however there is no extra play I can detect. I would say the fit there is perfect.
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Old 07-16-2018, 12:52 PM   #11
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Default Re: Vanquish VS4-10 Origin Limited Build/Thoughts Issues

VP Support just sent me a tracking number for new bearing retainers. I really hope that solves it. I'm a bit apprehensive since the retainers that currently work in my rear housing do *not* work in my front housing. So the new set will have to be smaller than either of the sets I currently have in order to work.

That said, the replacements will definitely fit, even if I have to break out the Dremel.
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Old 07-16-2018, 02:54 PM   #12
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Default Re: Vanquish VS4-10 Origin Limited Build/Thoughts Issues

Who makes the yellow tray in the pictures?
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Old 07-16-2018, 03:05 PM   #13
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Default Re: Vanquish VS4-10 Origin Limited Build/Thoughts Issues

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Originally Posted by davis53 View Post
Who makes the yellow tray in the pictures?
I got that from Jasper Hobbies; it's great!
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Old 07-16-2018, 03:25 PM   #14
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Default Re: Vanquish VS4-10 Origin Limited Build/Thoughts Issues

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Originally Posted by rohrej View Post

That said, the replacements will definitely fit, even if I have to break out the Dremel.
I believe before I took that approach, I'd request them send a new housing. Shouldn't have to take a power tool to metal vanquish housing to get bearing retainers to fit and I think they'd be more than happy to send a new housing so they could get yours back in same condition it is now to inspect it to try and find the issue and try and assure it doesn't recur.
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Old 07-16-2018, 04:11 PM   #15
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Default Re: Vanquish VS4-10 Origin Limited Build/Thoughts Issues

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Originally Posted by DukeMinnix View Post
I believe before I took that approach, I'd request them send a new housing. Shouldn't have to take a power tool to metal vanquish housing to get bearing retainers to fit and I think they'd be more than happy to send a new housing so they could get yours back in same condition it is now to inspect it to try and find the issue and try and assure it doesn't recur.
I agree in principle, but I want to get on the trail with this! Also, to be clear, I would just use the Dremel on the extra set of bearing retainers, not on the housing itself.
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Old 07-16-2018, 05:51 PM   #16
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Default Re: Vanquish VS4-10 Origin Limited Build/Thoughts Issues

Waiting with sweaty palms, mine will be here in a week.
I know the axles are a new part, hopefully a quick fix!


Hang up and Drive
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Old 07-16-2018, 07:13 PM   #17
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Default Re: Vanquish VS4-10 Origin Limited Build/Thoughts Issues

Have you tried assembling everything without the locker and bearings installed? Because if bearing carriers, diff cover and housing bolt together as it should, perhaps the issue is something small and overlooked elsewhere.

If all else fails, use a big hammer.

If it jams, forces it. If it breaks, it needed replacing anyways. Lol.
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Old 07-16-2018, 07:35 PM   #18
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Default Vanquish VS4-10 Origin Limited Build/Thoughts Issues

Watched Josh build it, gear to spool, slide bearings onto, follow with retainers, drop in. Could caps be reversed side to side ?


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Old 07-16-2018, 07:43 PM   #19
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Default Re: Vanquish VS4-10 Origin Limited Build/Thoughts Issues

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Originally Posted by mikemcE View Post
Watched Josh build it, gear to spool, slide bearings onto, follow with retainers, drop in. Could caps be reversed side to side ?


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That was my thought as well, caps looked odd to me in the photo.
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Old 07-16-2018, 08:39 PM   #20
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Have you tried assembling everything without the locker and bearings installed? Because if bearing carriers, diff cover and housing bolt together as it should, perhaps the issue is something small and overlooked elsewhere.

If all else fails, use a big hammer.

If it jams, forces it. If it breaks, it needed replacing anyways. Lol.
Yes, the front housing can be assembled without the ring/spool/bearings, but the bearing carrier mounting holes don't line up 100% when doing this. Everything (both spools, ring gears, 4 bearings) except the one pair of bearing carriers can be successfully installed in the rear housing. However no complete assembly fits in the front housing.

The carriers are being squeezed together from the ends of the assembly, so even if I were to force it, the bearings are bound up and the ring gear can't spin.
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