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Thread: How is Overdrive % calculated?

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Old 08-06-2022, 12:05 PM   #21
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Default Re: How is Overdrive % calculated?

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Not to "breast a dead horse"...
I just google image searched "horse with tits" to make a snarky comment. I shouldn't have done that.
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Old 08-06-2022, 01:35 PM   #22
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Default Re: How is Overdrive % calculated?

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I just google image searched "horse with tits" to make a snarky comment. I shouldn't have done that.
Thanks, once again, for "catching" my (phone's) typo. When I read that across got typed, it have a good laugh, too. It's for that reason that, to before sending text messages, I always try to remember to 'proofread' them.

Hopefully, now that the typo has been corrected, can actually get an answer to the question.

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Old 08-06-2022, 03:13 PM   #23
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Default Re: How is Overdrive % calculated?

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Originally Posted by Panther6834 View Post
Thanks, once again, for "catching" my (phone's) typo. When I read that across got typed, it have a good laugh, too. It's for that reason that, to before sending text messages, I always try to remember to 'proofread' them.

Hopefully, now that the typo has been corrected, can actually get an answer to the question.

~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place
I've given you the equation to calculate overdrive before, but you didn't like it. You divide the difference by the mean, and multiply by 100. ~35% in your example.
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Old 08-06-2022, 03:50 PM   #24
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Default Re: How is Overdrive % calculated?

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I've given you the equation to calculate overdrive before, but you didn't like it. You divide the difference by the mean, and multiply by 100. ~35% in your example.
"Difference by the mean" I don't get. Last time I had any high school match classes was something like 38 years ago. Yeah, I know...I'm old(er).

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Old 08-06-2022, 03:55 PM   #25
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Default Re: How is Overdrive % calculated?

20-14=6 (difference)
(14+20)/2=17 (mean)
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Old 08-06-2022, 04:40 PM   #26
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Default Re: How is Overdrive % calculated?

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Originally Posted by DRED805 View Post
20-14=6 (difference)

(14+20)/2=17 (mean)
Got ya.

When I was in junior high & high school, I was a math whiz...ex. softmore year, I was the only softmore in a class full of seniors. But, as they say, "Don't use it, you lose it."

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Old 08-07-2022, 06:17 AM   #27
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Default Re: How is Overdrive % calculated?

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You divide the difference by the mean, and multiply by 100.
I double-checked the formula you gave, using two tooth counts combo we all KNOW the OD percentaged of, and your "formula"doesn't calculate correctly. If the two gears were 15T & 20T, then everyone knows the OD would be 33.3333% OD, and with 12T & 18T, the OD would be 50%...I chose these two examples because the ODs are extremely obvious...yet, by your "formula", the supposed (and incorrect) ODs would have calculated to 28.57% & 40%, respectively, this showing your "divide the difference by the mean, and multiply by 100" formula is incorrect.

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Old 08-07-2022, 01:22 PM   #28
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Default Re: How is Overdrive % calculated?

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If the two gears were 15T & 20T, then everyone knows the OD would be 33.3333% OD, and with 12T & 18T, the OD would be 50%...
That's percentage change, not percentage difference. The industry standard for calculating overdrive (TGH, Vanquish, etc..) is percentage difference.

This is a post from Holmes I read a while back that helped me understand how they calculated the OD in the TGH transmissions...

Quote:
John Robert Holmes
He calculating % difference rear to front.
1.9 is 73% of 2.6, so 1.9 is 27% less than 2.6 (rear)
2.6 is 37% more than 1.9
The difference is 27% of 2.6
The difference is 37% of 1.9
The averaged number is 31.1% so that there is no confusion on whether front or rear ratio is the point that the dig ratio is calculated off.
2.6-1.9 = 0.7
(1.9+2.6)/2 = 2.25
0.7/2.25 = 0.31111
0.311x100 = 31.1

Last edited by DRED805; 08-07-2022 at 02:00 PM.
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Old 08-07-2022, 01:59 PM   #29
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Default Re: How is Overdrive % calculated?

Plus vanquish already ADMITTED they screwed up. Yet nothings been done. This thread is irrelevant anymore


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Old 08-07-2022, 02:04 PM   #30
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Default Re: How is Overdrive % calculated?

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That's percentage change, not percentage difference. The industry standard for calculating overdrive (TGH, Vanquish, etc..) is percentage difference.

This is a post from Holmes I read a while back that helped me understand how they calculated the OD in the TGH transmissions...
Call it what you want...percentage change, percentage difference...but, what I said in my last post still holds true. Starting with the 20T/15T example I listed, for every full rotation of the rear, the front would rotate 1-1/3 times. No matter how you look at it, that IS 33% OD...NOT 28.57% (by the formula you stated). Likewise, with the 18T/12T example, one full rotation of the rear results in 1.5 rotations of the front, which IS 50% OD (NOT the 40% your formula would want people to believe).

Again, there's a very specific reason I selected those two pinion/spur combos...because they have KNOWN overdrive percentages. By the formula you posted, you'd be falsely indicating these two known OF combos as something other then what they actually are. If I were to have used 20T & 10T, everyone knows that the OD would be 100% (1 rear rotation equals 2 front rotations)...yet, the formula you posted would try to (handedly) convince people that it was only 66.667% OD.

I'm not here to argue. I'm just trying to get an accurate answer to the 20T/14T matter...or, to get an accurate formula. It's not that I "don't like" the formula you provided...it's just that, mathematically, the formula CAN'T be 'correct'. I might not be the math whiz I once was (there was a time I could calculate two different computations at the same time...in my head), but even basic math proves the formula 'incorrect'. The two (now three) examples above prove that...and, honestly, I don't get how you can't see that. After all, they are three of the easiest-to-prove OD percentages, and I purposely selected three of the easiest-to-calculate tooth counts combos.

In the meantime, I am trying to see what I might be able to do about taking the formula you listed, and *modifying* it, so as to see if I can figure out numbers that actually work. If I figure it out, I will post it here...and, while I'm working on that, if you, offer anyone else, had a formula believed to be "correct", please, post it here.

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Originally Posted by Fricker08 View Post
Plus vanquish already ADMITTED they screwed up. Yet nothings been done. This thread is irrelevant anymore.
Actually, it's not "irrelevant", as (at least the way I see it) the thread doesn't appear to have been specifically aimed at Vanquish - it appears to have been an honest inquiry as to how OD is calculated...ANY overdrive...exactly as I'm looking to figure out. The 20T/15T & 18T/12T (and, now, 20T/10T) combos I used have "known" OD percentages. It's through these "known" percentages that I can test any formula...and, the formula posted previously, because of these "known" OD percentages, is not 'accurate'...but, again, the primary question asked in this thread is still an honest question to awaiting an accurate answer.

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Last edited by Panther6834; 08-07-2022 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 08-07-2022, 02:29 PM   #31
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Default Re: How is Overdrive % calculated?

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Starting with the 15T/20T example I listed, for every full rotation of the rear, the front would rotate 1-1/3 times. No matter how you look at it, that IS 33% OD...NOT 28.57% (by the formula you stated). Likewise, with the 12T/18T example, one full rotation of the rear results in 1.5 rotations of the front, which IS 50% OD (NOT the 40% your formula would want people to believe).
Holmes clearly explains how you're getting your 33% number, and why it's not the correct way to calculate overdrive. I'll side with him, on this one.
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Old 08-07-2022, 02:38 PM   #32
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Default Re: How is Overdrive % calculated?

15 is 75% of 20, so 15 is 25% less than 20
20 is 33.3% more than 15
The difference is 25% of 20
The difference is 33.3% of 15
The averaged number is 28.57% so that there is no confusion on whether front or rear ratio is the point that the dig ratio is calculated off.

Is any of this making sense yet?
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Old 08-07-2022, 02:42 PM   #33
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Default Re: How is Overdrive % calculated?

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Holmes clearly explains how you're getting your 33% number, and why it's not the correct way to calculate overdrive. I'll side with him, on this one.
So...what you're attempting to say is, if the rear wheel/tire completes one full rotation, and the front wheel/tire completes 1.25 rotations, that's *not* a 25% OD? First, Holmes is an engineer, NOT a mathematician. By the math, placing an simple, the above example IS 25%...b because the front is being driven 25% more then the rear. The (incorrect) formula he, and you, are following focuses on the "driving" gear...what's supposed to be the focus is the "driven" gear. That's the fallacy in that formula.

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Old 08-07-2022, 02:52 PM   #34
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Default Re: How is Overdrive % calculated?

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Originally Posted by Panther6834 View Post
So...what you're attempting to say is, if the rear wheel/tire completes one full rotation, and the front wheel/tire completes 1.25 rotations, that's *not* a 25% OD? First, Holmes is an engineer, NOT a mathematician. By the math, placing an simple, the above example IS 25%...b because the front is being driven 25% more then the rear. The (incorrect) formula he, and you, are following focuses on the "driving" gear...what's supposed to be the focus is the "driven" gear. That's the fallacy in that formula.

~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place
Fast forward to 6 minutes. Vanquish, Holmes, TGH, and everyone else in the industry must be wrong I guess...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZS3i59okq4
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Old 08-07-2022, 03:14 PM   #35
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Default Re: How is Overdrive % calculated?

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Originally Posted by DRED805 View Post
15 is 75% of 20, so 15 is 25% less than 20

20 is 33.3% more than 15

The difference is 25% of 20

The difference is 33.3% of 15

The averaged number is 28.57% so that there is no confusion on whether front or rear ratio is the point that the dig ratio is calculated off.



Is any of this making sense yet?
And, if you were calculating underdrive, those figures would make perfect sense...and would be accurate. Except, we're not talking about "underdrive"...we're talking about "overdrive". THAT is what's causing all the confusion.

If the pinion (the gear driving the rear) was 20T, and the spur (driving the front) was 15T, then, yes, it would be correct to say that the rear has 25% underdrive (compared to the front)...at the same time, it would ALSO be correct to say that the front has 33.334% overdrive. Put another way, saying 33% (rounded) front OD is EXACTLY the same as saying 25% rear underdrive.

By the way, the only tooth counts combos that this could be said of are when the spur has a tooth count that's 75% of the pinion (16T/12T, 28T/21T, etc). When one thinks about it, this 33%OD/25%UD 'combo' it wow interesting...I could be wrong, but, I don't believe any other percentage combo (ie 33%OD/25%UD) are this "mathematically perfect". The other 'interesting' thing about this particular combo is that you don't need ANY formula to determine what the OD or UD percentages are, as both percentages are intrinsically obvious.

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Old 08-07-2022, 03:20 PM   #36
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Default Re: How is Overdrive % calculated?

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Old 08-07-2022, 03:40 PM   #37
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Default Re: How is Overdrive % calculated?

This post has become irrelevant because the original post was asking how VANQUISH came up with their overdrive numbers which are incorrect. You’ve been showed and told multiple times, yet continue to de-rail this post. Every time you post it’s just stirring up sh*t. The formula the major companies use is listed by [mention]DRED805 [/mention] and according to that they admitted fault. So you can say the math doesn’t add up. But it does and it was wrong.


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Old 08-07-2022, 03:51 PM   #38
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Default Re: How is Overdrive % calculated?

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Originally Posted by Panther6834 View Post
And, if you were calculating underdrive, those figures would make perfect sense...and would be accurate. Except, we're not talking about "underdrive"...we're talking about "overdrive". THAT is what's causing all the confusion.
I've given you the correct information. Provided multiple examples, and backed it up with text and video supporting the information from two major RC companies. I understand you want to be right, but you're not. There's nothing else I can say. If you don't get it, you don't get it.
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Old 08-07-2022, 04:06 PM   #39
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Default Re: How is Overdrive % calculated?

Deleted. Somehow, tapatalk dbl-posted.

Last edited by Panther6834; 08-07-2022 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 08-07-2022, 04:15 PM   #40
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Default Re: How is Overdrive % calculated?

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Originally Posted by Panther6834 View Post
And I've posted data that shows the figures I've posted ARE correct. You can dispute the 25% UD & 33% OD figures I've posted all you want...but, even basic math proves those figures are accurate.
The industry standard for calculating overdrive is to take the average of those two numbers. I really don't understand what's confusing about that.
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