Re: Natedog's Vaterra ASCENDER I'd like to know how that articulates after adding the sway bar. You only did it to help with the torque twist right? I know the 1:1 guys always ditch the sway bars to help with flex. Are those axial parts on the ascender!? Shame shame lol Ben |
Re: Natedog's Vaterra ASCENDER Any swaybar limits articulation, that is how they work, they key is not to limit it too much...all a balancing act. A proper swaybar should not limit vertical travel, this truck has plenty of flex maybe a bit more than needed. I find trucks crawl better when the front does more of the flexing in scale rc and 1:1. Why yes, yes they are, thanks lol. "thumbsup" I went to LHS and looked at every swaybar they had for all scales of vehicles and this seemed best so far. :) I also bought couple different sizes of music wire to make my own bars for tuning it. I have plenty of swaybar parts now. |
Re: Natedog's Vaterra ASCENDER Nice. I'll keep that in mind for someday. I've got to get some softer foams but going to tires and foams when I get my new beadlock wheels but will probably wait for Santa to bring those for me lol. I do mostly loose dirt and rock crawling and the stock tires don't flex much at all to help grab the rocks. Still having fu. With it as it for sure though! Be |
Re: Natedog's Vaterra ASCENDER I'm loving the stock tires with the little heavier RC4WD stamped steel wagon wheels, perfect 1.9 wheel/tire weight imo, with CI DW foams for Pitbull Rockbeast tires, works perfect. I really like the look of RC4WD 1.9 IROKs too, but have not tried them. |
Re: Natedog's Vaterra ASCENDER I started with the stiffest wraith rear bat,but after testing settled on the softest for now. I used 5mm thick axial spacers on the swaybar arms between the am and upper endlink (green spacers). The endlinks are 48mm eye to eye using parts from the slash swaybar kit, there is zero binding and it crawls much better with this setup. I was rereading some threads on ascender swaybars and noticed that Metalry101 used axial bent plastic link ends to prevent binding at the lower end links instead of what I did. The wraith swaybar is 89mm long, I bought 2mm (3/32") and 2.38mm (1/8", 0.125") music wire and may make my own bar for the axial arms with a bar length of 110mm to effectively soften the bar and prevent binding at end links. My setup for now is working well and no binding! More testing and pics later. I haven't played with swaybars much so I'm not sure what effect changing link length has on bars effectiveness. Different link length will change the angle of the bar and links, logic says a neutral bar and link position at ride height would be best imo. Need to thicken front shock oil or get new pistons and drill holes same size as I did for rears. Now that the rear swaybar is working well, when braking or fast let off the gas on descent the front right dives and the left rear lifts. |
Re: Natedog's Vaterra ASCENDER Soldered up some flexible, waterproof, 3M self-adhesive backed red LEDs that I got from Professorcake, thanks again! After soldering, I dabbed a little E6000 around the leads, solder joints and the led end, then shrinkwrapped it just in case and provide strain relief for the wires. These are for rock lights, I've always wanted to try red after always using standard white light leds for this, for looks and to help with night vision and glare. https://farm1.staticflickr.com/803/2...77c37e85_b.jpgIMG_0607 Six LED headlight/marker light harness. I'm going to ShoeGoo this down the middle of the underside of hood pretty much as it sits, then crimp a RX plug on the end of the two wire leads. I've been doing a bunch of lexan body reinforcement using drywall mesh tape and E6000, this body has been taking a beating, but I want it to last as long as possible. https://farm1.staticflickr.com/878/4...c6141211_b.jpgIMG_0608 Y-harness plugged to RX and threaded out from the box to plug two light harnesses into. https://farm1.staticflickr.com/802/2...bcac95df_b.jpgIMG_0609 Rocklights, one strip of three LEDs front and one strip of three in the rear powered by 2S. https://farm1.staticflickr.com/880/4...6e5e14e2_b.jpgIMG_0610 https://farm1.staticflickr.com/874/2...1ae40391_b.jpgIMG_0611 One SuperBright LEDS soft white dot LEDs just in the rear for comparizon, these are great on 3S, but as you can see kinda meh on 2s...not bright enough. https://farm1.staticflickr.com/796/4...2a272ce4_b.jpgIMG_0612 https://farm1.staticflickr.com/865/4...bd260d5f_b.jpgIMG_0613 |
Re: Natedog's Vaterra ASCENDER Nice I was just thinking of under body lights at some point. I'm dying waiting for my light kit that I ordered from my local hobby shop. I got the realistic light kit that has headlights low and high beam, turn signals, brake and park lights. Hopefully I can figure out how to wire them in. I never thought of red under body lights but that's bad a$$! I'm thinking of powering mine with a 9 volt and remote led controller/dimmer that's on ebay. That way it's not pulling power from my 2s battery pack and I can thru. Them on and off without having to unplug them or cool with wiring. I'd love to see your set up all out up headlights and all. The days are getting shorter so they'll come in handy for sure. Where did you get the red lights, another member or online somewhere? Also, what is the stuff you and I think many dip their electronics in to water proof them? I'm not at ranger to nearly shrink and have plenty but nothing else. Thanks! Ben |
Re: Natedog's Vaterra ASCENDER Hey Ben, Thanks for the kind words. :) Your light setup should be nice too, I'm waiting to see when you get it done. I thought about 9volt battery too, but I hate buying any non-rechargeable battery. It's easier, less junk and less weight to just wire into your receiver, lipo balance tap, battery main power wires, or if you want separate battery, buy small 800 - 1000mah lipo dedicated to lights. Yes, less daylight and we go back to standard time first Sunday in November, so that has lit a fire under me to finish lights. I got the lights from Professorcake in a great deal for a second set of Ascender tires, LED strip and wiring and plugs. I forget where he bought them, but there's a couple links below. "thumbsup" Our LHS sells all the different colors by the foot at reasonable prices. R/C Country Hobbies - 15 Photos - Hobby Shops - East Sacramento - Sacramento, CA - Reviews - Yelp HobbyKing stocks all colors too, great price too. Here's the red: Turnigy High Density R/C LED Flexible Strip-Red (1mtr) Turnigy High Density R/C LED Flexible Strip-Red (1mtr) 60 LED's per meter!! LED's are arranged in sets of 3, you can cut the strip and make new strips or extend strips to make any combination of 3 lights! Features: Comes with adhesive tape backing for easy mounting Flexible enough to be bent at any angle Easy to use. Just peel and stick! Large voltage input range up to 12V DC! (Great for 2-3S Lipoly) Specifications: Standard length: 1 meter Strip width: 8mm LED quantity per strip(1 mtr): 60 LEDs Working voltage: DC12V Working current(1mtr): 400mA Wire length(1mtr): 10cm Weight including wire(1mtr): 11g Certification: CE & Rohs Vaterra LED Light Bar Insert Slickrock (PART NUMBER: VTR310000) is a great pre-wired setup for rocklights (white, not red color) and can be used in their plastic housing (or make your own from styrene) as a forward facing lightbar on the bumper or roof. Vaterra LED Light Bar Insert Slickrock Vaterra Light Bar Housing Slickrock (PART NUMBER: VTR210014): Vaterra Light Bar Housing Slickrock Waterproofing electronics I've use MCG Products conformal coating spray (it can be sprayed into a small cup or jar and brushed on too). It works very well and is what most OEM waterproofers use. Corrosion X is something your dip the parts into, it does not dry, and must be re-applied periodically. I have not used Corrosion X, but others said it works very well. Do not use Plasti-Dip for waterproofing directly on electronics, it's way too invasive, messy, holds in too much heat, and can crack parts off of the circuit board in extreme heat/cold temperature changes. |
Re: Natedog's Vaterra ASCENDER Crawled again yesterday testing some rear swaybars on and noticed that during articulation the rear axle looks a little too far forward in the wells, probably about the 3/16" like CarterFab moved his. http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/vater...build-cfm.html Wraith rear swaybar works great and the torque twist has gone to almost nil using the softest bar in the kit. It measures 0.047" at thinnest center and overall is 0.098" at the thicker part, it is still a bit too stiff imo for lightweight rig like mine. I have several sizes of music wire and am going to cut one from 0.078", 0.062", and 0.055" and sleeve the ends where the arms clamp with some aluminum or brass tubing. The crawling was greatly improved! Still seems like maybe try some 10mm internal limiters, not sure it really needs this much suspension travel. Also have several ideas for raising the front axle panhard mount and steering linkage to match. Swaybar doing it's thing! https://farm1.staticflickr.com/893/4...d3454711_b.jpgIMG_0614 https://farm1.staticflickr.com/873/4...2bcf43ff_b.jpgIMG_0615 https://farm1.staticflickr.com/872/4...448d38df_b.jpgIMG_0616 https://farm1.staticflickr.com/867/4...49b59c8f_b.jpgIMG_0617 https://farm1.staticflickr.com/801/4...93d175a8_b.jpgIMG_0618 https://farm1.staticflickr.com/818/4...de72f1cc_b.jpgIMG_0619 https://farm1.staticflickr.com/897/4...5b5e880e_b.jpgIMG_0620 https://farm1.staticflickr.com/821/4...4d447ec2_b.jpgIMG_0621 https://farm1.staticflickr.com/817/4...fbe66d5d_b.jpgIMG_0622 |
Re: Natedog's Vaterra ASCENDER Love those rocks! |
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https://farm1.staticflickr.com/799/4...e4fb050c_b.jpgIMG_0623 https://farm1.staticflickr.com/815/4...fae7cb0f_b.jpgIMG_0624 https://farm1.staticflickr.com/802/4...3e58281d_b.jpgIMG_0625 https://farm1.staticflickr.com/804/4...8d1a2f5b_b.jpgIMG_0626 https://farm1.staticflickr.com/807/4...01d4ab3b_b.jpgIMG_0627 https://farm1.staticflickr.com/885/4...90ff0c31_b.jpgIMG_0628 Little carnage...gotta admit I like to push this things limits, it's had a few long tumbles and it's kinda like a rental truck when hanging out with friends without a cralwer. https://farm1.staticflickr.com/786/4...9aa729de_b.jpgIMG_0629 Salida... https://farm1.staticflickr.com/796/4...065bb0e6_b.jpgIMG_0630 Carnage exam in the workshop https://farm1.staticflickr.com/890/4...290ffc5c_b.jpgIMG_0631 https://farm1.staticflickr.com/895/4...46749d2d_b.jpgIMG_0632 Repairing, cut off the little hanging on plastic where the screw head ripped through the rear bumper, dug in ma box and found some old Losi race buggy shock ends that were press fit. Drilled all the way through, cut off the loop, trimmed, pressed into bumper with little CA on it, trimmed flush, drilled out to M3 screw slip fit, going to buy some 3x40mm buttonhead screws to replace the stock 3x30mm since the bumper mount area is now considerably thicker. Probably cut some old Axial lower links at an angle to act as 'washer's so the peice can't pull through again just in case the CA doesn't hold. The plastic should be thicker down in these holes so that the screw heads don't pull through like this. |
Re: Natedog's Vaterra ASCENDER Beautiful pictures! That things just loves to climb! That sucks about the bumper but at least you've got it fixed. If I break mine it'll give me an excuse to buy the chrome metal ones that look like the factory bumpers. Pricy but good looks for sure! Ben |
Re: Natedog's Vaterra ASCENDER Beautiful scenery! And good lord, how old is that lighter? :) I limited my shocks 10mm internally - best handling move I've made. Much more stable now, it was way too flexy before. Great work on that swaybar, I might have to give that a shot as well. I just narrowed my axles and the TT is back in a big way (though it tucks perfectly in my smaller Bronco body) Good stuff, keep it coming! |
Re: Natedog's Vaterra ASCENDER Well thats it, I just went thru your whole thread. I am going to pick up one this week, love my Axials but I need a change all of my rigs have become rinse and repeat. Seeing how they can take a beating this last weekend and talking with Rich from Vaterra has me convinced that I need one:). Now the big question for me is Bronco or Blazer. Going to a GTG at Folsom this Sat., how about you?? Anyway thanks for taking the time to write and report on your trip with the Blazer. |
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Team Losi Racing 3x40mm Button Head Screws (qty 4) [part number TLR5907] Team Losi Racing 3x40mm Button Head Screws (4) [TLR5907] | Parts - AMain Performance Hobbies - AMain Performance Hobbies Quote:
Thanks, swaybar is huge and mandatory imo, try it you'll like it. :) Narrowed axles created more TT? Going to look for your narrowed axles now, love how the tires tuck in this Blazer body. EDIT: Found your Bronco bodied thread here: http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/vater...-ascender.html Yes, I really like how your Bronco turned out! "thumbsup" Quote:
Crawl For A Cure: http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/compe...re-2015-a.html |
Re: Natedog's Vaterra ASCENDER Great pics man.And your idea will be used on mine.Im still running no sway bar and its getting on my nerves.I was out yesterday to a similar spot with the Bronco and the blazer"thumbsup"I think the swampers that come with these trucks are every bit as good as any tire out there |
Re: Natedog's Vaterra ASCENDER Rear bumper mounted after repair, buttonheads about flush with bumper face and should be much stronger. Rear swaybar etc at ride height. https://farm1.staticflickr.com/791/4...0edc7f48_b.jpgIMG_0633 |
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Re: Natedog's Vaterra ASCENDER It's all looking good man! |
Re: Natedog's Vaterra ASCENDER Natedog the GTG is SAt. at 10. Beals Pt., you know the last parking lot past the Dottons turnoff? I am also going to the Crawl for a Cure"thumbsup". Maybe I will see you Sat. or at The Cure. |
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Re: Natedog's Vaterra ASCENDER Well I was at the local Hobby shop yesterday (Jakes Performance Hobbies) actually had the Blazer they have on display in my hands. I like it, I want it and he carries alot of the Vaterra upgrades in the shop. OK now that being said I really want to get one (I am thinking tomorrow:mrgreen:) but I would like to TRY and keep it pretty much stock. I know I will change the C hubs and sterring spindles to Alum. but would like to try and stop at that. The more I read about these rigs the more I am impressed, and want one. I will have my Axial Deadbolt (Yeah this was supposed to stay stockish too) at the Cure along with my Blazer"thumbsup" Hope to have the Blazer at Folsom this Sat also. |
Re: Natedog's Vaterra ASCENDER Looking good Natedog.. My Bronco body is Finally here. Throwing some paint on it and hopefully finally be able to get in the dirt with this thing. |
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I ordered an Axial Wraith front swaybar to swap out with the rear that I'm using now. Looks like longer arms which should give little better geometry on the bar. "thumbsup" |
Re: Natedog's Vaterra ASCENDER Stock RTR Spektrum S605 servo has been taking a beating and the output shaft is getting wobbly, I looked everywhere online including Horizon Hobby's site and couldn't find a replacement bearing (stock is brass bushing) or the specs for it. So I took it apart, pulled the bushing out and put the calipers to it. Here's the careful measurements that I got: ID: 0.235", 5.969mm OD: 0.390", 9.90mm Width: 0.086", 2.1844mm Very odd size, this is definitely not standard, must be metric. Closest thing I could find is 6x10x2.5mm. Every servo output bearing I've ever seen is open caged bearing, meaning no rubber seals or metal shielding which add thickness and really don't matter inside the servo, there's a black rubber o-ring sealing the output shaft. I don't have one of these bearings in my stock and nobody local does either, I've got a bunch of old servos laying around and iirc still have an old dual ball bearings Airtronics which is also 23 spline as are Spektrum. Since I want this back together today, I"m going to pull apart old servos and see if I find something to fit there. Otherwise I'll order AvidRC 6x10x2.5mm...also thought about using 6x10x3mm, removing the seals and carefully sanding down thickness using 1000 grit wet sanding paper until it fits the servo case. I may have room in servo for 2.5mm width, but may not lol. I know this is cheapo servo and I have Hitec HS-7955TG spare, but I'm trying to see how long I can make "stock" last and keep it on a budget. :) The servo is advertised as waterproof, but the case has no other o-rings besides on the output shaft, the solder connections to wiring harness and pcb inside look like they are conformal coated for waterproof, but definitely not a high end servo. Funny, Horizon Hobby kinda hides this servo on their site, go to the site and then search for "s605". MSRP $27.99, selling for $13.99 lol. I'd pay an extra dollar for the ten cent bearing they could've thrown in there instead of brass bushing. https://www.spektrumrc.com/Products/...ProdID=SPMS605 Anybody? |
Re: Natedog's Vaterra ASCENDER Opened up several old servos and a Hitec HS-925MG had an o-ring on the output shaft and a bearing that worked in the stock Vaterra S605 servo. BTW stock servo gears are all 100% steel. "thumbsup" Bearing size in Hitec is ID: 0.235", 9.90mm OD: 0.390", 5.969mm Width: 0.098" (0.012" wider than the brass bushing), 2.4892mm I cleaned and lubed all the gears, shafts and o-ring, and then had to gently file the servo output shaft (with very fine file) where the splines meet the non-splined smooth shaft. The bearing was sliding on and would stop at base of splines, just had to clean it up a tiny bit and then the bearing pressed all the way on. When I squeezed the servo case back togehter and put the four screws in, I had to really give it a good squeeze to get the last tiny bit and then it went right together. Felt like it snapped together and the bearing and o-ring seated right place....or it cracked the inside of the servo case lol! This really tightened up the servo shaft, how it should have been from the factory! Tested and working great, doesn't seem to be binding or getting hot, but we'll see if the magic comes out with extended use. I re-attached the servo to the chassis with a pair of FullForce RC 1/10 scale servo clamps and four 3x14mm buttonhead screws. Stock was 3x10 buttonheads and flat washers. I've been using these servo clamps for years and they work great and come in silver or blue, Part No: FF023. Six clamps and twelve buttonhead machine screws for $12. http://www.fullforcerc.com/FF023 Pics to come. |
Re: Natedog's Vaterra ASCENDER Stock S605 servo with Hitec output shaft bearig, fresh ParkTool Polylube 1000 grease, http://www.parktool.com/product/poly...ant-tube-ppl-1 and ready to assemble! O-ring is on output shaft just above bearing. EDIT: The bearing to replace servo output shaft bushing is............ AvidRC MR106 bearing, 6x10x2.5mm open cage! :) http://www.avidrc.com/product/1/bear...-bearings.html http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...pstohdfetx.jpg |
Re: Natedog's Vaterra ASCENDER I'm new to crawling and not knowing what I was getting other than thinking the blazer looks sweet, it seems to lean a lot. Is that due to the shocks it comes with or am I doing something wrong with it? |
Re: Natedog's Vaterra ASCENDER That is due to the low numerical axle ratio that gives us the sweet scale differential pumpkins and axles. The best cures seem to be...in no particular order... DinkyRC cantilver rear shock kit (for the SCX10) mounted outboard of the frame rails (not inboard), Outboarding the rear shocks and lower links, And my favorite so far rear swaybar using the softest bar in the kit (Axial Wraith front swaybar, don't buy the Hot Racing one, get the Axial brand part number AX30781) These are all easy fixes. :) |
Re: Natedog's Vaterra ASCENDER The Axial Wraith Front Swaybar Set (part number AX30781) is what you need for rear Ascender swaybar. Axial arms use 3x5mm setscrews to attach to the bar and these get full thread engagement in the aluminum arms for less chance of stripping out the holes, unlike HR that get much less thread engagement. Recived mine yesterday, installed, tested and works much better. Axial rear swaybar is 90mm long, front is 95mm long, provides better alignment of the end links and allows bit more flex. Arms on rear bar are 35mm, front arm set is 45mm long, provides better alignment of end links and allows bit more flex. My previous end links were 48mm eye to eye, they are now 40mm. I was using 5mm thick Axial anodized aluminum spacers on link end of arms to straighten the endlinks so they are more upright, now with wider bar and shorter end links, I'm using 3mm thick spacers. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...psrbs5rfsy.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...psy11mvgoz.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...psqmhgvoba.jpg Bought GCM Racing Ascender Rear Axle Truss for testing too! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ps0kqsnzrv.jpg Dug through parts pin to find some 10mm plastic spacers to internally limit shocks, found some 7mm, 6mm, 5mm and some little thin 1mm spacers, but have not done anything with them yet. Debating on just how much to limit the shocks....? |
Re: Natedog's Vaterra ASCENDER I've been storing my lipos in an airtight steel ammo box, charging while attended on concrete or metal plate, but decided to upgrade safety and provide more isolation betwween batteries during storage. Ordered several Lithium Polymer Charge Pack 18x22cm Sack (PRODUCT ID: LPGUARD18x22), these are very nice quality, lined bags with good velcro! Lithium Polymer Charge Pack 18x22cm Sack ordered a gaggle of these, one for each lipo and couple spares TrackStar Fireproof Lipo Storage Case (105 x 55 x 30mm) (PRODUCT ID: 9386000010-0), again very nice quality, lined, with double velcro flap closure. These fit both my 2s shorty hardcase and 3S 2200mah HD soft lipos. HobbyKing Page not found. Three shorty hardcase 2S lipos in the smaller individual bags fit in one of the larger bags. Three 3S 2200mah HD lipos in the smaller individual bags will also fit in one of the larger bags. I can put a couple of the larger bags in my Camelbak pack while out crawling. Think I can fit one more of these bags with batteries in the ammo can, bag size is perfect here! Keep my 6 battery charging board in there too! https://farm1.staticflickr.com/803/4...7104501d_b.jpgIMG_0639 https://farm1.staticflickr.com/894/3...077a2c84_b.jpgIMG_0640 Bought several more 2S shorty hardcase lipos this time from SMC, Factory Spec 7.4V Shorty 4400mAh 60C Inboard (Product Code: 4460-2S2P) I've had good luck with Turnigys but read lots of mixed reviews on their shorties which are only available in Nano-tech, so I went with SMC (Superior Matching Concepts) since most reviews (and friends) have reported good resutls with them! http://www.smc-racing.net/index.php?...product_id=121 Decided to limit suspension down travel 9mm the same amount of shock preload adjustment left when it was adjusted so that at full droop the springs were still fully seated on the shocks. Used two packs of 3mm id Rear Shock Downstops, three of the thickest black spacers per shock under the pistons, 3mm each for total of 9mm per shock. Adjusted spring preload so that the collars bottom against shock caps and on the bench it looks perfect! Pic to come. Aluminum mount for front rock light strip (cut from piece of my old TLT chassis lol), need to tidy wiring little more and get more pics with leds. https://farm1.staticflickr.com/875/4...fb596430_b.jpgIMG_0641 |
Re: Natedog's Vaterra ASCENDER Damn man that's a lot of protection for those batteries! Those are batteries and not bricks of C4 right? lol |
Re: Natedog's Vaterra ASCENDER Hows the GCM Rear axle truss working out? |
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Re: Natedog's Vaterra ASCENDER Idk. I've been using lipo's since '08 and never had an issue that I didn't see coming. The only thing I've ever seen that would do a lipo in, is being stored in a high ambient temp garage, a shit charger, severe impact, and driving a nail through it. Being that I'm moving into a new apartment soon that has no garage and will have to keep the batteries indoors, I'll have to get a fireproof box juuuust in case. |
Re: Natedog's Vaterra ASCENDER Woot Woot just got home from Crawl For A Cure 2015, had a great time seeing peeps again and meeting new RCC'ers! Thanks to all sponsors and those who set up a great course with challenges for all skills and rigs and to all the generous donors for swag and prizes! :) Ascender did great and is really getting dialed in now. Bigbill nice to meet you in person and I had a great time crawling together! Pics after I sort through all of them. |
Re: Natedog's Vaterra ASCENDER Same on this end Nate, to say your Blazer is "Dialed In" is an understatement. Your rig surprised and amazed me more than a few times yesterday, it made a few bonus gates that my Axial failed on. Great running the course with you"thumbsup" |
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#CrawlForACure2015 Night before hurry up and finish stuff...like lights wiring. Headlights worked great, rock lights were useless, forgot that I tested LEDs on pack voltage but I'm running them through the receiver. https://farm1.staticflickr.com/878/2...7b6daacc_b.jpgIMG_0642 https://farm1.staticflickr.com/890/2...fac90e50_b.jpgIMG_0643 Nice tie-wrap anchors for headlight wiring from Fry's Electronics. https://farm1.staticflickr.com/809/2...d473484e_b.jpgIMG_0644 The day we've all been waiting for, it started out chilly, went to wish I had my shorts (peeling off wool base layer, gloves, etc.), then back to glad I didn't change to shorts and where's my jacket! Rain held off until day after and really was a perfectly beautiful crawl day in the mountains! There was plenty of fresh hot coffee and boxes of doughnuts at check-in! https://farm1.staticflickr.com/892/2...6c93ac42_b.jpgIMG_0645 https://farm1.staticflickr.com/817/2...0947ba79_b.jpgIMG_0646 https://farm1.staticflickr.com/878/2...622946ee_b.jpgIMG_0648 https://farm1.staticflickr.com/814/2...7fbff8b0_b.jpgIMG_0647 |
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