The Seemingly Eternal Evolution of SVT's Ascender

[Natedog]

After reading your posts today, I realized it's been several months, what's happening with your tiny Bronco.

[svt923]

Originally Posted by Natedog

After reading your posts today, I realized it's been several months, what's happening with your tiny Bronco.

Its getting another tire swap, got to get some new pics once they are mounted.

Otherwise, it is unchanged from the last posts and just keeps on trucking.

[svt923]

It only took me 2 months to take pictures of the new tires but you keep coming back so don't expect me to change.

Anyway, visual proof my truck still exists:



The new tires are Proline KO2s stuffed with narrowed CI dual stage inserts. They look amazing and that's 7/8s of the battle.



Driving impressions to be provided later, possibly sooner than 2 months from now.

[svt923]

I can let you in on a little secret: I actually drove my Ascender yesterday but was too lazy to type out an actual post. So I knew exactly how the new tires drove at the time of the last post but suspense doesn't happen on it's own.

I will admit my Ascender was down and out for a few days. One of the set screws that holds the gear to the input shaft on the GCM transfer case had loosened up so the wheels weren't getting any power. About 5 minutes and some red threadlock later, we were back up and running.

While many places are still under a blanket of snow, North Carolina is also suffering through the last weeks of winter. With it being a frigid 60* outside, I put on a sweatshirt and braved the elements for a few hours of driving.

I can happily report back, the Proline KO2s are very, very good. The traction was impressive for a narrow tire with a tightly packed tread pattern as the truck walked through mud, sand, and water while still hooking up on the rocks. They are a little big for the body but who doesn't run 37 inch all terrains on their near stock early Broncos?

Other driving notes:
-Torque twist was in full effect and was most noticeable during slow crawling where tire lift was a big problem. The suspension felt much softer on the bench than I remembered it being which leads me to believe the shocks have lost some oil. The damping needs to be upped in a big way so a shock rebuild will be in my future. Shock building ranks up there with turnbuckle building and tire gluing as the worst RC chores.
-The Associated slipper clutch works so much better than any other slipper I have ever encountered on a scale truck. It provides constant power to the drivetrain in all but the most difficult binds and if it does slip, the pads don't end up glazed into uselessness.
-The GCM front bumper hang up on everything but looks great so it stays.
-Having all the electronics up front combined with the inner fenders keeps everything so dry even when the truck is going through water. As long as the hood stays above water, the electronics are good.

For your visual enjoyment:




Would you believe there is video too? Well there is!

But it is still on the camera so that will have to wait.

Hey, at least I updated my thread.

[JatoTheRipper]

Those fender wells look nice. They look a little thick and heavy for my taste, but I can take care of that. I'm going to design and print some of my own. I was thinking about trying the Tupperware trick. I'm not sure why I didn't think to print some.

The truck looks great. How are those Race Claws working out for you?

[svt923]

The Race Claws worked good, especially for tires that cost me less than $30 for a set. Aggressive tread tires weren't too common in the sub-4.2 inch size when I got them and they filled the need. They hook up in dirt better than the KO2s but overall the Prolines perform better.

Those tires will get a new use eventually, there is always something to be built.

[Natedog]

Truck looks great.....and those tires...mmmmn nice. You bought the Knights Customs printed inner fenders? They look very nicely made and sturdy. Try moving the rear upper link mounts forward and up it helps with TT a lot, also would help to raise the axle upper link mounts too. You put AE slipper onto Vaterra top shaft? Been awhile since updates, I'll have to go back a page or two lol. Nice crawl spot too!

[svt923]

Originally Posted by Natedog

Truck looks great.....and those tires...mmmmn nice. You bought the Knights Customs printed inner fenders? They look very nicely made and sturdy. Try moving the rear upper link mounts forward and up it helps with TT a lot, also would help to raise the axle upper link mounts too. You put AE slipper onto Vaterra top shaft? Been awhile since updates, I'll have to go back a page or two lol. Nice crawl spot too!

The inner fenders are from RC Addict, they are indeed quite sturdy.

I haven't messed with my upper links for a long time. There were RULRs on my truck soon after it was first built and I can't say I noticed much difference on the torque twist front. The additional anti-squat did help with steep climbs though. I may have to revisit the link tuning.

Running the AE dual disk slipper plates and pads with the spur from a GT2 for drop in 32P gearing. The details are in my thread about converting to 32P gears, not too much in this thread except saying I did the conversion.

[Natedog]

Thanks for inner fender clarification.

RULRs need to be taller and made out of good strong metal, check out userid TODBLDZ here on RCC selling nice machined aluminum RULR plate sets, I have some on my K10, helps lots with TT. I bought his as they were $23 shipped and very nicely made, could make them yourself too, but for what he's offering it's worth it to buy them imo.

Ok I remember that thread, thanks.

[svt923]

This weekend was extremely productive in terms of RC, less so in terms of actual life but I have my priorities straight.

Got around to trying a mod that I had been thinking about for a little while to help with torque twist. Since my truck has a GCM transfer case in the center, I can configure how the power goes in and out of it.

So by flipping the t-case shafts around, I got it set up like this:





The end result is front and rear driveshafts that spin in opposite directions. With the driveshafts now counter-rotating, I had to do something about one of the axles in order to drive forward again. After much thought, I removed the entire chassis and installed it upside down. When I took a picture of my work, it just looks like the rear axle is upside down. Weird photography stuff.



Also, I rebuilt the rear shocks and filled them with 3K diff oil to better control the suspension movement. Small bore scale shocks like I have need thick oil to provide proper damping and lighter oil caused the suspension to react too fast for my liking. Having similar shocks on other trucks, I knew to skip the shock oil and go straight for the diff oil.

The results of my experiment: torque twist gone completely with the catch of all 4 wheels needing to be on the ground. If you are in a situation where 1 tire (especially the front) isn't on the ground or where most of the weight is shifted to one end, it will still twist in the direction of the axle rotation on the side with the majority of the weight. But just being able to drive on flat ground without the body doing a 15 degree lean is a huge improvement so I'll take it.

My day of testing was ended quickly by a dead radio battery. I'll charge it and try to not be such a noob next time. In the rest of my spare time, I threw together a new home for a few of my trucks to get them up and away.



Now, it is full steam ahead on getting my GCM Skeleton rebuilt for the next GCM Adventure Series event in about a month.

[Crawler_Wookie]

Hey svt,

I did the same shaft swap and was blown away with the elimination of the torque twist my Ascender was having, and that was after adding the Dinky cantilever kit and rear upper link risers. This mod works great as long as you can flip an axle and on the Ascender, its a piece of cake.

Something else I did while in the GCM transfer case was to replace the two 20T gears with a 19T and 21T. The shaft spacing is the same and there is just enough room for the 21T to clear the case. Now I can eliminate the torque twist AND overdrive the front axle 10%. Just put the 21T gear on the shaft driving the rear and the 19T on the shaft driving the front. This dual mod makes the Ascender that much better.

I highly recommend this for the Ascender. With no overdrive or underdrive gears available, this is the only solution to get different axle speeds.

[svt923]

Originally Posted by Crawler_Wookie

Hey svt,

I did the same shaft swap and was blown away with the elimination of the torque twist my Ascender was having, and that was after adding the Dinky cantilever kit and rear upper link risers. This mod works great as long as you can flip an axle and on the Ascender, its a piece of cake.

This is a very good mod, makes an immediately noticeable difference in torque twist. Having my diff cover upside down bothered me so I bought the RC4WD Teraflex cover out of sheer vanity. It looks good mounted either direction.

Originally Posted by Crawler_Wookie

Something else I did while in the GCM transfer case was to replace the two 20T gears with a 19T and 21T. The shaft spacing is the same and there is just enough room for the 21T to clear the case. Now I can eliminate the torque twist AND overdrive the front axle 10%. Just put the 21T gear on the shaft driving the rear and the 19T on the shaft driving the front. This dual mod makes the Ascender that much better.

I highly recommend this for the Ascender. With no overdrive or underdrive gears available, this is the only solution to get different axle speeds.

Now this is quality information that I usually fail to provide.

I had the thought of fitting different gears but assumed anything bigger than the 20T ones wouldn't fit since the tolerances are pretty close already. This will definitely be a future mod to my Ascender. There already several new things planned.

GCM is supposed to be coming out with a new 3 gear transfer case that has built in overdrive and fits into the same mounts as their current t-case but I haven't seen any updates on that in a while. Luckily I know a guy that knows a guy that knows some more info.

[Crawler_Wookie]

Originally Posted by svt923

Having my diff cover upside down bothered me so I bought the RC4WD Teraflex cover out of sheer vanity. It looks good mounted either direction.

That's funny!!! I like the look of that cover over the stock one.

The gears I put in the GCM transfer case are below and fit perfect.
Robinson Racing #8721 - 21T
Robinson Racing #8719 - 19T

I saw the GCM posts mentioning the 3 gear transfer case and am waiting patiently. I found this site that lists a delrin 3 gear transfer case and I've got one on order. It should work fine.
The Scaler Store - TSS Ripartitore Centrale Delrin Multiuso

I have also played around a bit with 3D printing a 3 gear transfer case housing and it seems to work fine with flange bearings. I'm not sure how long the PLA housing will hold up, but so far it seems to be ok.

But now that I have seen the light of counter rotating driveshafts, I may not want a 3 gear transfer case and just find ways to flip axles. It works too well to not use.

Has anyone flipped the SCX10ii axle? The molded truss has to be trimmed and a custom one fabbed to enable the flip. I guess if you have a leaf rear suspension, flipping the SCX10ii axle would be easier.

[svt923]

Originally Posted by Crawler_Wookie

I have also played around a bit with 3D printing a 3 gear transfer case housing and it seems to work fine with flange bearings. I'm not sure how long the PLA housing will hold up, but so far it seems to be ok.

If the design is solid on your t-case, upload it to Shapeways have them print one. The strong and flexible material should hold up in that use with no problem. Pretty sure I saw GCM's 3 gear prototypes have Shapeways housings.

Originally Posted by Crawler_Wookie

Has anyone flipped the SCX10ii axle? The molded truss has to be trimmed and a custom one fabbed to enable the flip. I guess if you have a leaf rear suspension, flipping the SCX10ii axle would be easier.

I suspect no one is flipping the SCXII axles anytime soon due to the gears. The hypoid gears only fit together one way and if you flip them, the high pinion design turns into a pinion hanging below the axle centerline getting smashed into everything design.

[Crawler_Wookie]

Good point, I did not consider the offset diff pinion and how low it would sit when the SCX10ii axle is flipped.

Hot Racing makes a SCX10ii transfer case housing that will allow for counter rotating driveshafts. I wonder how they expect it to be used with stock SCX10ii axles? Change to the old SCX10 axles and flip one?

Good idea with Shapeways. I've had to do some size biasing to make the screws and bearings fit properly in the PLA prints...like use a 3.5mm printed hole to get a 3mm screw to clear or a 11.5mm-12mm hole for a 11mm bearing to clear. I'll get a housing printed and see what the clearances are like or contact Shapeways and see if they have a recommendation for CAD hole size vs printed size.

[Browneye]

Impressive work, inspiring!

New here, first post, and this thread was worthy.

[svt923]

Hey everyone.

It's me again, back from a very long Ascender hiatus.

If we Ascender owners are a family, think of me as that cousin who became a millionaire as a hedge fund trader that doesn't come to many weddings or birthdays and misses the family reunion every year but keeps up with all the family happenings by checking Facebook and actually reading Aunt Edna's Christmas letter. Just know, I am still here and will always love the Ascender.

As stated in my very appropriate title, my Ascender is eternally evolving. In fact, my first post of this thread was very prophetic:

Originally Posted by svt923

From this point forward, I will do my best to document the build process and highlight some the the parts that I will be using. After that, it may turn to an adventure thread or I may tear it all apart and start over. It will be a fun journey.

Indeed it has been fun and I have decided it is time for the next evolution.

Let's take a look back:

OG kit Blazer, circa 2015


Tiny tire Bronco


And the condition before the big reveal


Drum roll please
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Perfect.

A truly incredible build, I really impress myself sometimes.

Alas, I cannot leave well enough alone thus we begin anew. So join me on the continuation of this journey. There will be pictures, I promise.

One of the first things I tore into was the GCM transfer case. This thing has held up like a champ but we can make it better. Taking Crawler Wookie's idea, I replaced the 20T 32P pinions in the t-case with 19T and 21T Robinson Racing pinions. You see where this is going, right? Counter-rotating axles with front overdrive (be it a slight one). Ascender performance win!



This picture looked a lot better on the preview from my camera, you will have to take my word for it.

And all cleaned up and ready for some overdrivin fun.



This also seemed like a good time to install some parts that have been waiting to be installed. Sitting in one of my many boxes-o-RC-goodness, were these SSD c-hubs and knuckles. Normal (I use that term loosely) RC owners can't wait to get their parts installed but I have many projects and am easily distrac............sorry, there was a debate on where a giraffe would wear a tie on Instagram. Anyway, I installed a SSD front diff cover as well.



On the other side, you can see the Vanquish driveshaft adapter and fresh SSD titanium links. Also, turnbuckles make amazing upper links. The ability to dial in upper link length with a twist of a wrench is something every truck should have.



Why would I need to replace the front links you may ask. I have a well reasoned and witty retort to that but instead I'll just use a picture.



We are going back to WB4! Everything old is new again!

But wait! What is that on the back of the chassis?

Ahh, you got me.



We are going rear leaf springs courtesy of GCM.

Guess I can show off the rear axle now.



The rear axle housing remains flipped to accommodate the counter-rotating-ness (new word alert) of the transfer case. The RC4WD Teraflex diff cover was added only because it looks good upside down. Tamiya leaf springs were added because they were what I had on hand. They are crazy stiff so I may steal the red RC4WD springs off my TF2 but I'll roll with it for now.



The rear axle was also treated to a Vanquish driveshaft adapter. A couple of the original link spacers were used to fill in the space of the link mounts to hopefully prevent catching on the empty mounts. You may notice a couple RC4WD leaf spring shims and they are there for a good reason.

The link mounts on the housing are slightly offset to the top side of the axle which didn't make a difference with links but when you put leaf springs on a flipped housing:



The pinion ends up pointed down. Not being a suspension and drivetrain engineer, I'm going to classify that as "sub-optimal". The leaf shim gets things back to a much more driveshaft friendly angle. Also, I used countersunk screws to attach the springs to the mounts, they retain the springs without flattening them as much as button heads.

Speaking of driveshafts, extending the wheelbase and going with the driveshaft adapters means I need some new ones. Right?

Wrong.



Yes, those are Ascender HD shafts from the first shipment RPP got when the HD shafts were still an optional part. A couple of Twin Hammers input cups on the stock driveshafts allow them to be used with the Vanquish adapters and make up additional length I needed. The original cut down Bronco rear shaft was moved to the front and the full length front shaft was used in the rear. All fits perfectly.

I threw on some tires to get an idea of what things will look like.



Yes, I can work with this.

Hmmm, either my head is crooked or this has some serious rake. Maybe 90mm shocks up front won't work with leafs (I choose to use the spelling and pronunciation of the Toronto hockey team here, not because I'm internet illiterate. It's called creative license).



Maybe stiff springs with no weight in the rear isn't the best setup. Who knew? As a side note, these RC4WD Baja MTZs seem to have been relegated to my mock up tires. Poor tires.



There you go my Ascender compatriots, I am not dead despite what my Wikipedia page may say and my Ascender lives on.

See you in a few days or weeks or months, I'm not really sure but I definitely won't be there for Cousin Billy's birthday. The card's in the mail though.

Ascenders Congregate! or whatever you kids say these days.

[2mtech]

Nice to know you are, in fact, still above ground and properly "assembled"