Brushless vs brushed

[rag6]

Im currently running an mmp with a brushed rc4wd 45 turn on 3s. Would I gain, or lose, low range throttle control by running a sensored brushless motor through my mmp? Im ok with low range rhrottle control as is. If possible, I would like to keep my low range control, and slightly increase wheel speed and mid range torque...

[svt923]

Depends on the motor, a quality one like a Holmes Puller Pro or Tekin ROC412 would basically improve everything over a cheap brushed motor (more power, more wheelspeed, better low end control, etc.). Holmes has said the only motors he makes that have better low speed control than the Puller Pros are the handwound 5 slot brushed ones (and the difference isn't that much). The only things you would be giving up is the money out of your wallet and possibly some run time.

A regular 4 pole sensored motor (like those for 4wd SC racing) would net large power and speed increases but likely would lose some of the low speed control. Sensored 2 pole motors would lose even more low speed control and don't have the power of 4 pole motors (but still much more than brushed) plus many have significant amounts of built in timing so they don't really like to be run in reverse. Avoid anything unsensored at all costs.

[JatoTheRipper]

Why are you running an MMP in your crawler? That's a lot of extra weight you don't need.

Brushed is fine for crawling. If you want more wheel speed by a 3S battery.

[Hobbezco]

Originally Posted by rag6

Im currently running an mmp with a brushed rc4wd 45 turn on 3s. Would I gain, or lose, low range throttle control by running a sensored brushless motor through my mmp? Im ok with low range rhrottle control as is. If possible, I would like to keep my low range control, and slightly increase wheel speed and mid range torque...

If you are already running 3s, a cheaper option than buying a high dollar brushless crawling setup is to go down to a 35T or 27T brushed motor and/or a higher tooth count pinion. Trying one of RC4WD's 35Ts for $12 will set you back a lot less than $200+ for a crawler specific sensored brushless combo.

[rag6]

Originally Posted by Hobbezco

If you are already running 3s, a cheaper option than buying a high dollar brushless crawling setup is to go down to a 35T or 27T brushed motor and/or a higher tooth count pinion. Trying one of RC4WD's 35Ts for $12 will set you back a lot less than $200+ for a crawler specific sensored brushless combo.

This... Is what I was thinking.... My mmp weighs about the same as a sidewinder, and the trx xl5 it replaced...

[Sammy J.]

I run the Holmes 2700KV 540 Puller Pro in one of my 1.9 rigs (scx10).
I had to adjust the drag brake down to 40% and am having to learn how to drive a brushless rig (mainly learning how to drive it down steep descents), but I can tell you it is a blast! The low end resolution of that motor is tremendous and the increased wheel speed is great, especially on loose dirt climbs.

You also don't have the maintenance required with a brushed motor.
They aren't cheap, but if you are already running a MMP you're half way there!


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[DrewHammer]

I have a lot of small, loose rock in my area so I'm choosing to go with brushless on my most recent ascender axle'd rig. If you already have an MMP going with a nice, sensored brushless motor is a slightly more expensive, but cheaper in the long run investment.

I've always followed the rule of do it right the first time. You can buy cheap stuff all day long, but eventually it would have been more cost effective to get top shelf stuff. This is a balance you'll have to find for your driving style, and conditions.

If you're in looser, smaller rock, go brushless. If you're in more technical stuff, go brushed. IMO

[pete959]

I have holmes and roc. The holmes is a touch smoother but also a touch warmer after running but i cant say ones better then the other

LIFE IS GOOD

[rag6]

Originally Posted by DrewHammer

I have a lot of small, loose rock in my area so I'm choosing to go with brushless on my most recent ascender axle'd rig. If you already have an MMP going with a nice, sensored brushless motor is a slightly more expensive, but cheaper in the long run investment.

I've always followed the rule of do it right the first time. You can buy cheap stuff all day long, but eventually it would have been more cost effective to get top shelf stuff. This is a balance you'll have to find for your driving style, and conditions.

If you're in looser, smaller rock, go brushless. If you're in more technical stuff, go brushed. IMO

I do run in mostly loose stuff. What kv range would u suggest?

I was worried that too much power would hinder performance, also I have a stock driveline. Gotta account for that... Im gonna grab a cheap 35 turn and then move up if that does not help

[DrewHammer]

Originally Posted by rag6

I do run in mostly loose stuff. What kv range would u suggest?

I was worried that too much power would hinder performance, also I have a stock driveline. Gotta account for that... Im gonna grab a cheap 35 turn and then move up if that does not help

The only thing you should be worried about is the driveshafts, other than that the HD pinion they come with is pretty strong and there's no real upgrades to the trans or axle gears. Too much power won't hinder performance as long as it's smooth.

I went with a 3300kv because I run light, 2S batteries If you have 3s stuff I'd stay around 2100-2400kv.

[Di_Spencer]

How long are you guys getting out of a brushed motor before a rebuild is needed?

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[rag6]

My 10$-45 turn rc4wd has about 50 hours on it. It cant be rebuilt (unless you are a stock motor guru). I just clean and oil it after approximately every 10 hrs of run time and it is running about as strong as the day I bought it. If you get it wet clean it every time you run....

I would be perfectly happy with it, but just need more wheel speed....

[snapon boy]

I run hh 13t 5 slot motors in my son's scx10 and mine, we run and 2 miles on each outting 3 times a week I change the brushes about every 9 months or so. That dosnt include comps 2x a month and a recon g6 this year. So I feel they last a long time. I have a 13.5t HH trail master brushless sensored motor in my 6x6 and it has plenty of low speed control and loads of torque and speed. However it dose run warm about 140 after 2200mhs pack. If I were you I'd buy a 13t 5 slot hh motor and you will have the best of both worlds. 40 bucks

149 r/c worx team driver

[Di_Spencer]

Originally Posted by rag6

My 10$-45 turn rc4wd has about 50 hours on it. It cant be rebuilt (unless you are a stock motor guru). I just clean and oil it after approximately every 10 hrs of run time and it is running about as strong as the day I bought it. If you get it wet clean it every time you run....

I would be perfectly happy with it, but just need more wheel speed....

Originally Posted by snapon boy

I run hh 13t 5 slot motors in my son's scx10 and mine, we run and 2 miles on each outting 3 times a week I change the brushes about every 9 months or so. That dosnt include comps 2x a month and a recon g6 this year. So I feel they last a long time. I have a 13.5t HH trail master brushless sensored motor in my 6x6 and it has plenty of low speed control and loads of torque and speed. However it dose run warm about 140 after 2200mhs pack. If I were you I'd buy a 13t 5 slot hh motor and you will have the best of both worlds. 40 bucks

149 r/c worx team driver

Thanks guys that helps a lot because I was deciding between the puller pro stubby and the crawlmaster 13t but I was worried about the brushed motor wearing out. Have you ever had to have the cummutator cut in that time. I was just concerned that while the puller pro is much more expensive initially that depending on how frequently I would have to send it to holmes for a rebuild that the cost may start to even out. Thanks guys

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[rag6]

Im thinking the cheapo 35 turn rc4wd motor will be just about right. Im confused a bit with the 13 turn hh 5 slot. Isnt that a much higher rpm motor than a standard 540 35 turn?

[svt923]

Originally Posted by rag6

Im thinking the cheapo 35 turn rc4wd motor will be just about right. Im confused a bit with the 13 turn hh 5 slot. Isnt that a much higher rpm motor than a standard 540 35 turn?

The performance of a 5 slot motor is equal to roughly 2x the number of turns when compared to a standard 3 slot motor. So a 13T 5 slot is close to a 27T 3 slot, 16T 5 slot is about a 35T 3 slot, and so on.

[rag6]

Got it

So each winding is about 2x as long to wrap the extra slots, and in turn ya get better throttle resolution, more torque, and more rpm per turn?

How expensive is a rebuild, do you use standard springs brushes, bearings?

Thanks for answering all the questions

[snapon boy]

I haven't had the com cut yet however I will mail them in probly January or so.

149 r/c worx team driver

[rag6]

Can you use a com stick?

[Natedog]

Yes, you can use com stick on any brushed motor, but it's not a substitute for turning.