Need some setup advice.

[Hobbezco]

So, I changed a few things over the winter on my trail truck. Got my first chance to get out and crawl since October and I was greeted with some pretty poor performance. Whenever I get on a slope even remotely close to steep, the truck just wants to pop over backwards. Once I get all 4 tires up on a climb, when I give some throttle and try to climb, it just flips over instead of even trying to climb up.

I have the Codyboy axles on front and rear, including Ernie's steering mod and knuckle weights. Tires/rims are not weighted, but are steel, so they are plenty heavy. I am running stock shocks with the piston holes opened up. 30 wt oil, stiffer springs in the back, rear shocks outboarded. I have extended the frame to accommodate my choice of body and extended the wheelbase and rear driveshaft to match. It sidehills like a champ, but get on any real angle and the rear axle acts like its trying to twist the truck up instead of push it up the hill.

I'll post up some pictures to try to show how I am set up. If you have any questions, ask away. If you need a better pic of something specific, I will get one ASAP. Any help is appreciated.

[Natedog]

Put your battery where your ESC and RX are, move them to the side or rear of chassis. Lower the body/cage, I see at least 1/4" of daylight between cage and top of frame rails. Lower ride height, get rid of all the spring pre-load. Looks like you have silver marked rear upper (short) springs? Use stiff (green) upper and lower rear springs.

Are those Pitbull RockBeast XL, diameter? What foams inside them?

What batteries are you running?

Side view picture of truck without body, one with batteries and the other without please.

[Chris81]

Think he about covered all the options...you didnt put a matching steel wheel in the bed did you? If so try and find a plastic one that matches to save weight up high. Great looking rig though!! Love the gas cans mounted under the cage!

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[Hobbezco]

Originally Posted by Natedog

Put your battery where your ESC and RX are, move them to the side or rear of chassis. Lower the body/cage, I see at least 1/4" of daylight between cage and top of frame rails. Lower ride height, get rid of all the spring pre-load. Looks like you have silver marked rear upper (short) springs? Use stiff (green) upper and lower rear springs.

Are those Pitbull RockBeast XL, diameter? What foams inside them?

What batteries are you running?

Side view picture of truck without body, one with batteries and the other without please.

I will get those pics in the morning.

I will look into lowering the body, its mounted that way because the cage and body dont quite match up. I am sure some thought can fix that though. I ran it last season with the batteries and electronics where they are and it crawled like a beast, it had a different body, but moving them up front would put a lot of weight up there. I will look into fabing up a mount to try it.

I will grab some of the stiffer short springs and try tinkering there too.

Yep, Pitbull XLs, 4.75. Stock foams. Batteries are Turnigy Graphine 3000mah 3s.

[Hobbezco]

Originally Posted by Chris81

Think he about covered all the options...you didnt put a matching steel wheel in the bed did you? If so try and find a plastic one that matches to save weight up high. Great looking rig though!! Love the gas cans mounted under the cage!

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No, the spare is on a hollowed out plastic wheel with just enough really soft foam inside to keep the tire's shape.

[CODYBOY]

That is a pretty hefty looking sway bar, were you running it last year? I think it might be to stiff to let your suspension cycle properly. And Nate is right on with the shocks. Do you have limiters in them, to much travel is as bad as not enough. I think a set of link risers would help, then you could do away with the sway bar. Just my thoughts.
Ernie

[Natedog]

X2 on everyone's comments.

I forgot what body before. Rear shocks are leaning forward at top like mine and that effectively softens spring rate quite noticeably, requiring stiffer springs. Extra preload helps but not what you really need.

Two 3000mah 3s lipos is a lot of weight.

Waiting for pictures. A short video of it climbing would help too. Foams might have broken in and now too soft too.

[Hobbezco]

Originally Posted by CODYBOY

That is a pretty hefty looking sway bar, were you running it last year? I think it might be to stiff to let your suspension cycle properly. And Nate is right on with the shocks. Do you have limiters in them, to much travel is as bad as not enough. I think a set of link risers would help, then you could do away with the sway bar. Just my thoughts.
Ernie

I was, but it was the thinnest bar that comes with wraith kit last year. It broke in one of the last events from last year. I dont have anything in the shop to make a decent replacement and have just kept forgetting to order something. No internal limiters, no. I have the battery mounts set up on the back as RULRs though I have custom links so I am not sure how much they help. The next time out, I will just run it without the sway bar with no other changes to see what happens. I just hate the bobble head action I get without the swaybar lol

Originally Posted by Natedog

X2 on everyone's comments.

I forgot what body before. Rear shocks are leaning forward at top like mine and that effectively softens spring rate quite noticeably, requiring stiffer springs. Extra preload helps but not what you really need.

Two 3000mah 3s lipos is a lot of weight.

Waiting for pictures. A short video of it climbing would help too. Foams might have broken in and now too soft too.

Same cab, custom tube cage last season. I might go back, or use the new Proline welder body that I have on the way. My problems all started when I put on this Vaterra cage and stretched the WB out to fit it.

I think your idea of moving batteries is a great idea. One of the local guys noticed the forward shock angle and suggested that as well, its on my list of things to try, one at a time. I have some videos in post processing from the weekends pulling and crawling as I type this, I will see about finding and cutting out a short clip of what I am talking about.

[Hobbezco]

Unfortunately, this is the best clip I could come up with. I was not running the camera this trip as the little lady decided that she wanted to give it a try. It's not super clear, but you can see when I get much over 45 degrees, the front axle just kinda pops away. Everyone else pretty much walked this line. The full video of this crawl is almost done processing and should be up on youtube in a few hours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4todKa57oE

[SHOme]

Is this video with the stiffer swaybar? If so, I agree with Ernie try running it without it. You could test this at home with a board propped up. Ill check out your video when it is uploaded. I hate to see anyone having these type of issues but it does help us all to learn.

[snapon boy]

When I make changes I weigh the front axle and then the rear to see where the 60/40 falls

149 r/c worx /scalerfab Team Driver

[Natedog]

Originally Posted by Hobbezco

Same cab, custom tube cage last season.... My problems all started when I put on this Vaterra cage and stretched the WB out to fit it.

One of the local guys noticed the forward shock angle and suggested that as well, its on my list of things to try, one at a time.

OK, good info. I watched your video too, it's caused by the forward leaning rear shocks, I had same problem. Good to move your batteries after this is fixed and test before and after battery move too.

Originally Posted by SHOme

You could test this at home with a board propped up. I hate to see anyone having these type of issues but it does help us all to learn.

X2

Originally Posted by snapon boy

When I make changes I weigh the front axle and then the rear to see where the 60/40 falls

149 r/c worx /scalerfab Team Driver

Good idea, you use two scales one under each axle?

[Hobbezco]

I have tinkered a bit and tried to catch as much as I could on video. I chopped some together for this short video. The first bit of video is with battery moved forward and sway bar removed. As you can see, it is better, but the rear drivers side still dives hard once up on the slope. I added stiffer uppers in the rear after a few tries and it did not seem to help. Later attempts were with the sway bar back in. This seems to work better. The last few attempts were with the front winched down which seemed to work quite well. I am hoping to get out and get a real test on this setup. Still have too much snow to run here at home so, either enough melts over the next few days or I can get to the indoor track this weekend.

I looked at lowering the body, but with how I mounted it, it would mean a bunch of new holes in the back of the cab that would visible. Last resort, especially since I have the new Proline welder body on the way that I will likely put on here.

https://youtu.be/ISjEEhRRJ6w

[snapon boy]

Try moving your rear axle back 3mm

149 r/c worx /scalerfab Team Driver

[Hobbezco]

Originally Posted by snapon boy

Try moving your rear axle back 3mm

149 r/c worx /scalerfab Team Driver

All 4 links? Because I have already pushed the rear axle back 3/4" from WB4 to 333mm.

[snapon boy]

Sorry I missed that post.

149 r/c worx /scalerfab Team Driver

[Natedog]

Put some indoor/outdoor carpet, sandpaper or something similar on the wood will help to see what the suspension is really doing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxQPb7CCGP0

[1967Typhoon]

It looks to me like the tires just won't bite. I don't particularly blame the suspension. You have heavy axles, maybe the tires just lack traction.

I would try disconnecting the sway bar though and doing that same test again. Also, do you have any other rigs to compare? Put those same tires on another rig and see what's up...

[Natedog]

Originally Posted by 1967Typhoon

It looks to me like the tires just won't bite. I don't particularly blame the suspension. You have heavy axles, maybe the tires just lack traction.

I would try disconnecting the sway bar though and doing that same test again. Also, do you have any other rigs to compare? Put those same tires on another rig and see what's up...

Agreed, hence need carpet or something for traction to actually test what the suspension is doing when the tires hook up.

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Originally Posted by michiganwabbit

Hey I'm new to the crawler rc truck thing.. I've done a lot of up grades.. running a axial scx 10.. could use as many pointers as possible so I'm not throwing money out the window.. thamks

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Originally Posted by michiganwabbit

Adding pics ..yes them are zip ties till my new parts come..

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You do realize that you're posting all this in the VATERRA ASCENDER section?

Here's the appropriate sections.
Newbie section:
RCCrawler General Tech - Newbie General at RCCrawler.com

AX-10 Scorpion section:
RCCrawler Brand Specific Tech - Axial AX-10 Scorpion at RCCrawler.com

[Hobbezco]

Originally Posted by Natedog

Agreed, hence need carpet or something for traction to actually test what the suspension is doing when the tires hook up.

I can do that. I will staple a piece of carpet onto that board and grab some video again once the shop closes tonight.