I'm Back :)

[snapon boy]

Moa crawler would be awesome. Axial has stopped the xr10 and the bulley is very popular but comps are getting popular again and it would be awesome to have some new life in that market.

149 r/c worx/scalerfab/team brood.

[Rich Trujillo]

Originally Posted by snapon boy

Moa crawler would be awesome. Axial has stopped the xr10 and the bulley is very popular but comps are getting popular again and it would be awesome to have some new life in that market.

149 r/c worx/scalerfab/team brood.

Unfortunately, on this one i can tell you without any doubt that it will not happen. Man I miss the comp days and at one point even had a MOA axle design started

[snapon boy]

I totally understand that. I think the market is there just a lot of cash out lay to find out.

149 r/c worx/scalerfab/team brood.

[Yeti.stealth]

Ok, I concede the 2 speed idea, not very popular and cost too much.

The rear upper link mount itself is fine, I still use the stock plastic piece, but it's the 2 screws that mount it to the axle, I have snapped a few of those and its damn near impossible to get the snapped off screw out of the plastic axle housing. If you could go up a size in the 2 mounting screws or something it would be as tough as nails then! I can't get my head around how the aftermarket alloy link mount can stop the screws from snapping, I would think it would make it worse.

Please don't drop the small pumpkin, I like it! and lots of us have added sway bars and outboarded the shocks etc to help reduce it. Keep the cool pumpkin and diff gears but find a way to reduce TT.

I have only snapped a drive pin after letting them wear down to nothing, snap the one in the diff out on the trail and it's very hard to repair in the field.

[cartronicshn]

Welcome back Rich

[OSRC]

Welcome back - good to have you back here!

I've had 2 Ascenders and use the rear axle on several other builds (CC01's) Very happy with them overall. My only feedback other than whats been mentioned would be to offer a rock buggy type of cage/body. The market is really starting to saturate with trucks, and something different would really stand out. 1.9 Wraiths are very popular builds, and for good reason - they are great performers, look different, and still scale to boot. A 1.9 rock buggy with a full plastic cage and Ascender running gear would be killer, and really stand out from other offerings. Even a cage adapted to work on the stock chassis would work for me. Just my 2 cents...

On a side note, I had the opportunity to bash around in a parking lot with a V100 running 3S last weekend, and it was a beast. The driver needed a few lessons on cone navigation, but the chassis handled everything in stride. Very impressed with it overall!

[smog]

Hey Rich, welcome back. It's nice to see a Horizon rep on the forum. Are you working with the Twin Hammers at all?

We would love to see some bomb proof driveshafts for the TH. the set screws on the existing system break much too easily with upgraded electronics.

Would also love to see some bomb proof cv axles.

MIP seems to have lost interest in the TH sadly.

*Yes I know this is an Ascender forum, sorry guys didn't mean to hijack

[Natedog]

Originally Posted by Rich Trujillo

1. Torque Twist: I'm aware of this issue and dealing with it myself. I suspect is has to partially do with our gearing in the axle as well as the ratio we chose to use but i'm curious what if any affect raising the upper link has made. I personally have not tested it but browsing around forums and the web this seemed to be the hot thing to do. Is this still the case, any body else have things they've tried.

2. 2 Speed: How important is this feature? From what I have seen, it seems more users are avoiding the 2 speed option and just using 3S power. Seems like consumers would rather use the 3rd channel for a winch or light set. I realize that we don't offer a conversion kit but I believe Axial does and I have not seen many of those being used (maybe i'm not looking hard enough?).

3. Over/under drive: Who is this option aimed at? Competitive scalers, average users? How much benefits or advantages have you guys seen with other rigs that have this?

4. Upper Link mount: I'm going to look into a stiffer material to see if we can improve this, I've seen some aluminum offerings, how well do these work and what improvements have you seen?

5. Driveshafts: The reason we went with our design was to push the yoke as close to the housing as possible to provide more clearance. I personally have not broken any of the pins but it sounds like some of you have. How big of an issue is this?

1. Torque Twist (TT) has to do with the axle gear ratio, please keep the small axle pumpkin size, optimize suspension link design as much as possible and include a sweet swaybar setup that mounts through the frame in front of the rear axle. Rockhugger, I and a few others have played with link mounts and found there's a sweet spot raising and moving forward the rear upper link mounts at the frame that helps reduce TT. Problem is it tends to cause the rear pinion angle to go over center as the rear end approaches maximum suspension compression. These link risers that bolt outside the frame rails put too much angularity on the ball ends and bind them. Raising links at the axle may help with this, but we've spent a lot of time on it and have too many other commitments to keep playing with the link positions, this requires lots of time tinkering or a great knowledge of suspension design.
Edit: we love the small axle pumpkins, please keep them small!

2. 2-speed is nice option, but doesn't seem very popular among crawlers. I love it built-in on my TRX-4, but on my Ascenders I'm going with 3S (same batteries in TRX4).

3. Stock ratio front axle with under drive rear would be awesome! Overdrive would increase TT, underdrive helps reduce it. Under-drive also increases climbing, steering, and side-hilling, the truck will also track straighter especially on climbs when the front end wants to slide off to either side instead of holding the intended line.

4. Upper link mount (especially the rear) needs a third mounting bolt near the top by the links! I've got some stock plastic link mounts that are permanently bent more upright, the current mount on my Blazer allows so much flex that the rear axle rolls under and is about to tear the link mount off the axle! Several people have broken the two mounting screws that attach this link mount to the axle housing. The aluminum mount is nice, but does not solve the breakage issue without a third mounting screw.
Yeti.Stealth's extra screw through the link mount and axle housing has fixed this, but this should be incorporated into the RTR/kits.

5. I like the driveshafts because it reduces angularity of the end joints and is less parts count. Downside is little more pita to swap out. I've replaced the pins in mine with precision cut (nice square ends and fit so snug the pins kinda snap into place as the bearings that retain them are slid into place over them. Gunnar here on RCC makes these pins and they are a required upgrade imo. Well, looks like he might not make them anymore, but here's a link.
Gunnar CVD pins!

[AggressorBLUE]

Having recently picked up a TRX-4 as well, I'll be honest and say that my Ascender is getting a bit dusty. The biggest thing the TRX4 has going for it over the Ascender is portals. They simultaneously balance out gearing ratios so that torque steer is non-existent, and add more clearance. A V2 of the ascender that incorporates some of the aforementioned geometry changes and portal axels, and that can also come in at an aggressively lower price point than the TRX-4 (hint: sell it as a kit without a body and forgo the locking diffs and 2-speed) would steal a lot of Traxxas' lunch. Otherwise, I can see the Ascender losing sales this holiday season as it competes with the new offerings from Red Cat, Traxxas, HPI, and every other manu on the market.

Some other thoughts:
-Marketing team is asleep at the switch regarding the rear cage on the Chevy. I've mounted it to a proline Hilux, and others have mounted to the F250 and Chevy bodies from Proline as well. IMO if you're building a scale truggy and lack the skills/tools for building one from metal, the Truggy back for the ascender is a perfect starting point, and plays REALLY well with offerings from Proline. I'm sure proline would love to sell more bodies, and your boss would love to sell more trucks. Tell the world the Axial honcho isn't the only game in town!

-You should make a trail truck with leaf spring solid axle rear and IDS front. Also the body should be a Third generation Toyota Tacoma Quad Cab with short bed. I'm suggesting...for a friend...

[Shinchu]

Originally Posted by AggressorBLUE

-You should make a trail truck with leaf spring solid axle rear and IDS front. Also the body should be a Third generation Toyota Tacoma Quad Cab with short bed. I'm suggesting...for a friend...

YES. i would toss leafs under the rear of my rig in a heartbeat, especially if they were genuine vaterra!
and my son likes tacomas

Originally Posted by SMOG

Hey Rich, welcome back. It's nice to see a Horizon rep on the forum. Are you working with the Twin Hammers at all?

*Yes I know this is an Ascender forum, sorry guys didn't mean to hijack

hey if i can ask about a RWD Drift V100, a TH is fair game! afterall, he said he is working on multiple lines.

[2mtech]

1. Torque twist: The popular suspension tweaks improved the situation maybe 15% for me, including Vaterra aluminum shocks (that were not much better than the stock plastic IMHO). I'm good with the stiff shocks now, just wish I could've saved the time and expense of the earlier tricks

2. 2 speed: Of no consequence to me, if they were available I wouldn't have any interest

3. Over/under drive: Also of no interest to me...yet

4. Upper link mount: Non issue to me. I'm still running the stock mount after many, many miles with no problem

5. Driveshafts: To be honest, many of those many, many miles were driven before breaking the first pin. It was a long carry to the car as I usually carry field replaceable parts, and this definitely is not one, but no real big deal. Disassembly to replace the broken pin resulted in accomplishing periodic maintenance anyway. My only real gripe was that I had to buy a whole yoke/cup assy to get a new pin. Maybe make them a stand-alone service part in a 2-pack?

Older new body choices would be great to see too, like 50's/60's. Blazers, 80's Toyotas and Fords of any year/model are played, and does anyone really need another Defender?

[AngelowDoom]

Originally Posted by Ascender'nMN84

Glad to see you're back! Under and overdrive gearing for the axles would be a welcome addition by many members of this forum like SVT923 mentioned.

Or Ascender 2.0...

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

This is a rediculus suggestion regarding o/u drive. Adding a overdrive in front will only exaggerate the torque twist. What the Ascender need in my opinion is a small front mounted gearbox with the motor in the center and low center of gravity to accommodate people that want a opening hood and a 3d printed motorcase. Coupled with a transfer case that function like the Toyzuki and GCM transfer case, that allows for overdrive just by selecting where the driveshafts go on the transfer case. It gives overdrive without higher gears in the axle. And done this way people can choose if they want overdrive or not. But overdrive is where it's at in the moment the give us what we want. Overdrive gives the truck better turning angle and it pulls the truck up hills better and reduce the risk of flipping it on climbs. Without overdrive it pushes the truck and is more likely to to flip in steep climbs.
This would be a game changer for the Ascender, and it's important that the gearbox is small and without 2 speed. More important to have interior space than a 2 speed that is just a novelty future. Cus almost everyone uses 3s now. Gives you plenty of speed and power with a brushed system. If you want even more power, people use brushless. 2 speed is not necessary at all with electric motors.
But if you want to not only change the game but to end it all and be the winner of this crawler game. You should make the Ascender rear leaf sprung with the back free from stuff, so it will accommodate a full pickup bed or full interior in the back. A leafed back would also stiffen up the rear and reduce the effect from the torque twist.

And yes, it would be a good idea to change the output to a normal one, cus if you break one on the trail, it is easy to replace shafts when you can access them, but not so when you have to disassemble the entire axle.

[Ascender'nMN84]

Ridiculous suggestion? Why am I not the only one calling for it? I didn't say anything about front only.

Yes a transfer case can accomplish both however is it realistic for the masses or just a select few? Their market is the come and go hobbist. They figure the more dedicated already know where to go. More things to break means more unhappy customers. We are the minority in horizons eyes.



Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[AngelowDoom]

Originally Posted by Ascender'nMN84

Ridiculous suggestion? Why am I not the only one calling for it? I didn't say anything about front only.

Yes a transfer case can accomplish both however is it realistic for the masses or just a select few? Their market is the come and go hobbist. They figure the more dedicated already know where to go. More things to break means more unhappy customers. We are the minority in horizons eyes.



Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

It's rediculus because it will make the TT worse, witch is opposite to what we want. Yes a underdrive would help, but at what cost? It will probably result in bigger gears and new pumpkins to accommodate them, and then they are not backwards compatible, and not usable to all the existing Ascenders without a entire axle swap.
In my opinion my suggestion with a small front gearbox is the way to go. Then the overdrive can easy be done with the t-case, and it can also be selectable, so you can choose to use the future or not.
Coupled with rear leafs that can accommodate full truck bed and help torque twist, it would definitely sell. It would also sell a lot of the parts alone, it they was kits available to convert existing Ascenders. One front motor/t-case kit, and one rear leaf kit.
I would also suggest to release a builders version, without electronics, body, wheels and tires.
And don't use any of those crappy screws on any new parts. All screws should have 2mm and 2.5mm heads.

[Ascender'nMN84]

K

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[AngelowDoom]

And please, no portals Richard. Do your own thang, no need to copy the TRX-4, it's just a gimmicky kids truck anyway.

[Hobbezco]

Originally Posted by Rich Trujillo

Thanks guys for the welcome back.

Ok again, no promises, no time frame no guarantees but as always we (Horizon Hobby) are always looking to improve our product and we all know at some point a new version has to come out.
All this being said, I have some questions, but before i ask, please keep this in mind.

As a product developer, it's my responsibility to make sure i help create a product with mass appeal. There is a fine balance between giving the "hard core" user what they way while keeping it simple for the majority of buyers who never do anything but charge a battery and run it. Yes they are the majority. I have to keep costs in mind as well. A lot of time people think we sell millions of cars and it costs $50 to make a truck, both of these are far from the truth. Basically I want to do as much as possible but there are some things that are just not practical for production...so if your idea doesn't get used, please take it easy on me
Also note, as much as i love scaling and crawlers, I'm usually working on a lot of projects in different category's which pulls me in many different directions. Unfortunately it doesn't allow me to just focus on this category so again, if there is something you think i should know and I don't, please give me a little break lol.


1. Torque Twist: I'm aware of this issue and dealing with it myself. I suspect is has to partially do with our gearing in the axle as well as the ratio we chose to use but i'm curious what if any affect raising the upper link has made. I personally have not tested it but browsing around forums and the web this seemed to be the hot thing to do. Is this still the case, any body else have things they've tried.

2. 2 Speed: How important is this feature? From what I have seen, it seems more users are avoiding the 2 speed option and just using 3S power. Seems like consumers would rather use the 3rd channel for a winch or light set. I realize that we don't offer a conversion kit but I believe Axial does and I have not seen many of those being used (maybe i'm not looking hard enough?).

3. Over/under drive: Who is this option aimed at? Competitive scalers, average users? How much benefits or advantages have you guys seen with other rigs that have this?

4. Upper Link mount: I'm going to look into a stiffer material to see if we can improve this, I've seen some aluminum offerings, how well do these work and what improvements have you seen?

5. Driveshafts: The reason we went with our design was to push the yoke as close to the housing as possible to provide more clearance. I personally have not broken any of the pins but it sounds like some of you have. How big of an issue is this?

Good stuff guys, thanks for the comments and suggestions.

Rich

I have become the Ascender guy in my local group. I built a 6X6 from the platform I love it so much. Below are my opinions on the (very few) issues the Ascender has.

1. Torque twist is the biggest complaint that most people have. The quick and dirty way to fix it is to use a rear sway bar, but the changing the upper link geometry seems to help the most. Unfortunately, no one has come up with a way to eliminate it without making the rear end stiff. Changing the drive ratio would help, but having a split transmission where the front and the rear rotate in opposite directions would allow for any ratio without TT.

2. To me personally, we have 5 Ascenders and they all have 2 speed transmissions installed. I would say about half of the locals have gone 2 speed, so I feel that it should, at the least, be a one bag option.

3. There are no competitions near me, not within 4 or 5 hours travel anyway. UD/OD is a comp thing and holds no value in my local group. One bag options are always nice and being able to poke that in the nose of snooty "other brand" fan boys is always a win.

4. The upper link mount itself is not the issue, the axle housing is. I have had 3 breaks in this area, all rears, and the housing is what has broken, not the mount. The pumpkin needs to be beefier where the mount bolts in.

5. I cannot say that I, or anyone in my local group, has had any real problems with driveshafts. I have broken yokes, both on driveshafts and CVDs, but not many and, frankly, that is an expected break in this hobby. Beefier pins and yokes for longer wear would be nice though. Most of my group has moved to MIP to be honest.

6. My personal peeve with the Ascender design is set screws on shafts. DONT DO THIS AGAIN PLEASE lol Take the extra step and drill the shafts so that i don't have to do it myself and then spend extra on through grub pins. There is nothing worse than someone who has their day spoiled because the driveshafts are constantly slipping on the transmission output.

Thank you for listing to our input. I think I speak for us all when I say that we are awaiting the Ascender 2.0 with whatever (non-jeep) bodies that you guys decide on.

[AggressorBLUE]

Originally Posted by AngelowDoom

And please, no portals Richard. Do your own thang, no need to copy the TRX-4, it's just a gimmicky kids truck anyway.

Umm...the TRX-4 isn't the only crawler with portals (MST comes to mind).

And yes sure, the TRX-4 is a kids toy truck, but the ascender is a mans toy truck.

[AggressorBLUE]

Originally Posted by Hobbezco

6. My personal peeve with the Ascender design is set screws on shafts. DONT DO THIS AGAIN PLEASE lol Take the extra step and drill the shafts so that i don't have to do it myself and then spend extra on through grub pins. There is nothing worse than someone who has their day spoiled because the driveshafts are constantly slipping on the transmission output.

Thank you for listing to our input. I think I speak for us all when I say that we are awaiting the Ascender 2.0 with whatever (non-jeep) bodies that you guys decide on.

This x100

[AngelowDoom]

Originally Posted by AggressorBLUE

Umm...the TRX-4 isn't the only crawler with portals (MST comes to mind).

And yes sure, the TRX-4 is a kids toy truck, but the ascender is a mans toy truck.

It's not the only one with portals, there have been portal crawlers out there for at least 7 years. And also portal kits for both OG scx10 and AR60 axles for many years.
And yes, I don't give a dam. I neater want them or like them.
So please no portals for stock Ascender!
A kit for those who want to have them ok.