Wrangler TJ Locked & Loaded 1:1 (Build)

[Browneye]

So it's interesting here, everybody has their own thread and you can look and talk about their project but if you ask too many questions then you're hijacking their thread. Everybody says, "Start a new thread" instead of building on one that exists already. The adventure bike and boating forums frown on this - they don't want duplicate threads - keep it all on a given topic.

I get it, all the cool guys that know all about the cool stuff out there and how to do it can browse through and advise directly on your project. I'm down with that.

How I got started in all this...
I bought a K10 RTR a bit ago and a buddy built a SCX10, and it's been fun to learn about them and drive them and figure out what they can do. I like my K10 so well I have decided to build another one from scratch (a kit ) and just make everything better than what comes with the RTR rig.

I started customizing right away, remembering my grandpa's Chevy 4x4's - he had a bunch of them thru the years, starting with a bright yellow 57. It was new when I was born, and he was exited about my mom marrying my dad from Canada so he could get a guide permit to hunt moose in northern BC. Anyway, I digress, but my custom K10 is a color and replica of the cab of one of his trucks which makes it really fun and entertaining.

And I brew craft beer as my other hobby so it was a natural to capture some of that flavor in the process.

72 Chevy K10 Beer Hauler



As an avid outdoors person, and dirtbike rider for about 50 years, I have always enjoyed offroading. Some years back we got a Jeep Wrangler for my oldest daughter to drive and I found out they could be built into a pretty fun and capable trail rig. When that first Jeep got stolen I decided to build one up a little more. So I found this one as a very slightly used urban commuter and turned into a rock crawler. We had an absolute ball with it - my 17yo daughter even ran the Rubicon Trail with me one year in it. It was a 2003 Wrangler Sport I6 Auto with ARB's and 35's. It was really fun, but I had almost thirty grand into it and was a afraid to wreck it. It got sold some years ago to fund an offshore fishing boat - another pastime of mine.

So it's my desire to build an Ascender Wrangler as a replica of that Jeep TJ Wrangler. I've ordered an Ascender kit, a Proline Wrangler 2-door body, and trying to decide on all the electronics. I've found wheels and tires to match, and I'm going to have to fabricate some custom details in order to get it to match.

Let the games begin...

[Browneye]

My LHS generally sells product cheaper than you can order it online. They've been around a lot of years and really aren't online, so I suspect it's their way of capturing local clientele and keeping them. I try to buy what I can from them.

I'm now looking for an appropriate powertrain and electronics, radio, esc, motor, etc. The guys at the shop were suggesting that if I was going to spend the amount of money required for a high-end brushed system I should just go brushless. Castle is set to release their micro esc and 2200 or 2800 kv brushless sensored combo for about $150. I was also checking out Holme's threads and his site, I like what he has going there.

So I really need some help with choosing components. I'll likely visit a crawling meet or two so need to pay some attention to rules and specs, and I guess that means 2s lipo for that. But just about everyone with much time tinkering really likes brushless on 3s, better wheel speed, can gear however you want, very smooth and quiet, and a ton of torque. Give me your best recommendation, description, and reasoning. Money is no object...within reason. LOL

I like my stock setup okay on the RTR, but it could use just a touch more wheelspeed, and backup is really balky. Braking is weak too. I just replaced the steering servo, the stock spectrum 605 one got really loose on the output shaft already. But I think I'll want something a little more upscale for this build - and it needs to match whatever I decide to run for power, although I'm learning I'll likely need a BEC for it anyway. I replaced my stocker with a ARRMA ADS-15M, nothing fancy, about $40, is about 200oz at 6v, and waterproof. I see I have the same servo in my Arma Typhon - which I bought just prior to the crawler and have come to realize I really prefer the crawling over the racing around. I'm really not a 'go-to-the-track' and run guy I guess.

Another option would be a brushed setup similar to stock but more durable, like a Tekin combo with waterproof esc and 540 30 or 35T motor - they're about $150. I see I can get a similar setup from Holmes, esc has built in bec, and either a can-motor or something nicer.

Let's talk...

[Browneye]

I was just thinking if I had a system that ran well on 2s as well as 3s I could choose the battery for the application, like conforming to a crawling meet rules for Class 2 to 2.5.
Tekin makes it really easy to choose a brushed system, but I'm at a loss of which motor version to choose, higher or lower winds, and input volts vs. final gearing.

[Shinchu]

sounds like you need to go 2 speed.

didn't mean to come off as harsh about the bodies in the other thread, but it seems you have caught on. we start individual build threads here. and we don't like repetitive threads either and hope that people will use the search button to cut down on the same questions being asked.
but if that question is in that same person's build thread, go for it!

my thread is loaded with questions. some are similar to your drivetrain and power questions here. just to summarize, I'm running 3S on a 2 speed with a spare brushed 25T Tamiya (spare laying around), and a 12T pinion. should have some grunt in low gear, and loads of top end with that 25T. i plan on 35T or 40T later.

and when it comes to LHS in OC, i will never forget Hobby City in Stanton. i must have gone there a thousand times with my Pop.


welcome to the Ascender family. we like cats, we call ourselves "Ascenderholics" and we say things when we get excited like

"ASCENDERS, ASSEMBLE!!!"

[Browneye]

Thanks, and no problem, I'll read through your thread....Nate's, and Cody's too. Plenty of smart and talented hobbyists here. I'm catching on, every forum culture is a little different. Tons of good info here for sure.

Earlier I was reading the SORRCA rules and the bickering going on in that thread would put me out of that group activity permanently. Good thing it was folks elsewhere in the country. Life is too short, and this stuff is supposed to be all just for fun!!

A couple of years ago we got another boat, and there was an owners forum where I had a thread going about deciding which model, equipment, trailer, a ton of details, lots of posts. Then after I bought it and started fitting it out, and it became my 'boat thread' about my boat. One day the mods came along and told me I couldn't post in it any longer, it was getting too long, 4 or 5 pages long, and too many subjects discussed. "The search engines can't find content that way..." or some such bull excrement. I don't post there anymore. The people that run it are a**hats. LOL Goooooodbyyyyyeee.

Then there's an owners forum for pickup trucks when I got my new one, and they merge and purge threads all the time. You better have a damn good reason to start a thread or it's getting shut down or moved.

Anyway, I'm not sure I need a 2 speed, like I say if my RTR had just a little more wheelspeed I'd be fine. My buddy's SCX10 runs 3s and I think that's why his runs on trails a little faster. If I had a 3s capable esc that would likely be enough. I'm really torn right now between brushed and non, and which motor for either. I've been told brushless is way more efficient and versatile. Just get a sensored motor and controller. But which one???

And speaking of SORRCA, I thought our local chapter had a rule that required all rigs run 2s power. Did I misread it or is that common? In the 2017 rules I read in here that LockedUp sponsors I didn't see any mention of voltage rules or requirements. In any case, I'll likely build this thing to satisfy Class-1 if that makes any sense. If not then all bets are off - just build another fun rock crawler.

[slickwill16]

Hey Browneye. Just thought I would share a little of my experience on this topic. I have ran several different combinations in my Ascender. Both brushed and brushless (even the new Castle Slate with Mamba X). My favorite combo that I always seem to go back to is my Tekin 30t pro handwound motor with a Hobbywing 1080 esc. The motor has tons of power and combined with the Hobbywing, is butter smooth. I did up the pinion to a 15t. This combo gives me great low speed control, plenty of wheel speed, and will run seemingly forever on a 2200mah 3s battery. Looking at a little over $100 for both. Hope this helps.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[M1tch]

I can vouch for the Tekin 30 turn handwound, although all I can compare it with is cheaper motors such as the RC4WD 35 turn. I run it with a Tekin FXR on 3s. Very smooth. The FXR is specced to run a 35 turn minimum but runs ok with the 30T for me.

[Browneye]

Thanks guys, that helps a lot.

I was watching John Holmes on youtube last night, discussing his motors for 2017, and that is basically what he said - you can't get the drag braking and smooth performance nearly as easily with brushless, that the brushed are a really good option for crawling.

Amain and RPP have some really good holiday promo's...may have to take advantage.

Out of curiosity, how do you guys think the Holmes esc with built in bec compares to the Tekin FXR or Hobbywing?

And does any trasmitter really stand out? My LHS was pushing me to the Spektrum 5-ch...guess you can't have too many channels. [shrug] It's $10 more than the 4-ch.

[slickwill16]

I personally don't have any experience with the Holmes esc. I have used a couple of his motors and they are great. I am sure his esc is too notch as well. The reasons I went with the Hobbywing are size (pretty small footprint), power(more than enough to run my Tekin), and price ($40 vs $110 for the waterproof version). I did have to add a Castle bec because I am running a high volt servo (Spektrum S6280 @ 8.4v). But that was an extra $20. Which still left me with an extra $50 to spend on other upgrades. It will just come down to what will work best for your application. You won't go wrong either way.

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[Shinchu]

i have a holmes ESC, but haven't run it yet. (waiting on 12T pinion and a shift servo) but i have heard nothing but great things.

and yes unless you have enough cash for sensored, brushless really seems better suited for racing and bashing. power is usually the last thing i upgrade anyway, even in 1:1 cars.

* saw you asking about paints for this jeep, i think Tamiya gunmetal would work, backed with white. if that's too dark, you can try what i did on my champagne AE86 in the non-crawler section. spray Tamiya "smoke" to darken and lay some sliver next. should add some incredible depth, and make it a darker silver or almost grey like your 1:1.
practice how many coats of smoke to get the right darkness. your idea of acrylic sheets is good. or if you have any clear scrap lexan leftover from other bodies, that works too.
i collect action figures, and the card bubble from GI Joes are EXCELLENT. i have a few stocked up (i have over 250 joes, and i always open them) so if you need some testor shells let me know. eh, i just need to find them lol

[Browneye]

What are the primary performance and durability differences between cheap canned motors and rebuildable ones, like HH Trailmaster and his Pro series, or like the Tekin Pro versions?
HH as well as RC4WD have $15 motors, and they have $35-$75 motors. The Tekin 30T HD is like $40, a hand-wound pro for $50. HH are a little more. I see RC4WD has a rebuildable motor for like $35.

Even HH says their cheapos last really well, are great for wet, and when/if they puke are cheap and easy to replace. But he also sells $75 hand-wound replaceable brush motors.

In other words, what benefits are there with the more expensive motors? Do they run differently? Or do some allow for higher voltages? So choose based on 2s or 3s power?

[Browneye]

Originally Posted by slickwill16

I personally don't have any experience with the Holmes esc. I have used a couple of his motors and they are great. I am sure his esc is too notch as well. The reasons I went with the Hobbywing are size (pretty small footprint), power(more than enough to run my Tekin), and price ($40 vs $110 for the waterproof version). I did have to add a Castle bec because I am running a high volt servo (Spektrum S6280 @ 8.4v). But that was an extra $20. Which still left me with an extra $50 to spend on other upgrades. It will just come down to what will work best for your application. You won't go wrong either way.

That HW 1080 with a castle BEC seems like a bargain.
AMain has them for like $44. And they're waterproof now.

I also see that with an external bec you can set it for the volts you want/need for your servo. It's all starting to make sense.

[ScoJac]

Originally Posted by Browneye

What are the primary performance and durability differences between cheap canned motors and rebuildable ones, like HH Trailmaster and his Pro series, or like the Tekin Pro versions?
HH as well as RC4WD have $15 motors, and they have $35-$75 motors. The Tekin 30T HD is like $40, a hand-wound pro for $50. HH are a little more. I see RC4WD has a rebuildable motor for like $35.

Even HH says their cheapos last really well, are great for wet, and when/if they puke are cheap and easy to replace. But he also sells $75 hand-wound replaceable brush motors.

In other words, what benefits are there with the more expensive motors? Do they run differently? Or do some allow for higher voltages? So choose based on 2s or 3s power?

Let John holmes explain it, everything you just asked is covered in this clip.

John Holmes - Brushed vs Brushless motors in Off Road R/C Trucks

[Browneye]

That's the one I had watched - like it! Certainly cleared a lot of things up.

I'm still not clear about what the difference is between the $75 motor and the $15 motor. I get that the cheaper one is a sealed can - if it quits you replace it. The other is rebuildable, able to take apart. I'm just not clear on the difference in performance if there is any. Is it just longevity, lots of running hours?

That vid pretty well cements in my mind that brushed is the way to go for me. I think.

[M1tch]

The difference is in the quality of materials and build. There is a noticeable difference in performance between a cheap 35T and a high end 35t, particularly at low speed.

ESC difference is in the tunability with throttle curve, drag brake and other adjustments using software instead of counting beeps/flashes or jumper position.

[ScoJac]

its mainly in the construction there is so much more control and smoothness in start up and when engaging/releasing the drag brake. construction and thickness of the silicon steel laminations in the armatures, the precise and uniform windings and wire coatings, stronger neodymium magnets vs ceramics, and the balancing with epoxy vs removing material from the armature is more precise. the way the wire is wound by hand makes a difference to that of a random coiling by a machine, from what i understand the hand wound armature with the precise and uniform winding creates a cleaner and stronger magnetic field vs the random wind done by a machine.

i will be purchasing the crawlmaster pro 540 13t for the f100 shortly.

[Browneye]

Excellent info - thank you.

Picked up the kit today, body is coming UPS.

I almost broke for a SCX10-2 today when the kit came in. It was just $30 more than the Ascender kit. Fortunately (or not) the kids at my LHS are avid Ascender fans - Axial not so much. Seems they're pretty similar, so in the end I went with what I was familiar with. Almost went to the dark side...

They have the Spektrum 5 channel with mini 4ch receiver for $100. And HH motors in stock - cheap ones and spendy ones. They don't carry Hobbywing ESC but he had heard only good about them. HH are a lot more. Add a Castle BEC for $20.

I'm selling off the Blazer body if anyone wants an extra. I've never been a blazer fan - a trade would work too.

[Browneye]

I guess I'm going to have to drop coin for a replica Warn8274 - here's a before and after on the one I got for my full-size. It came from another wheeler on Pirate4x4, it had been mounted to the front of a Bronco or Toyota or something for a bunch of years but never used. I called Warn with the serial number and they said it was one of their very early models - when I took it apart it looked like new inside.
I moved the solonoids under the hood and made up power feed cables with welding cable, soldered terminals with a torch. The synthetic winch line was the shiznit - amsteel synthetic. I never got stuck but I pulled out a few rigs with it. We used to call the jeeps a 'HRV' or 'hummer recovery vehicle'.

[Yeti.stealth]

i got one just like the before pic under my bench, i took it off my old Land Rover Defender many years ago. hung onto it in the belief i would get another off roader one day that i could put it on.....

[Hal]

I think you cant go wrong with any of the mentioned electronic choices. I run Tekin 35s and FXR speed controlls on my 2.2pro and they work flawless (unlike the driver sometimes.) I lso run the Holmes 16 turn crawler and their micr speed controll. In my Bomber I am running Castle Momba sensored and 3800 with a 2 speed. It also works very well. All of these can run 2s or 3 s ( Momba can go much higher voltage) In my TF2 I also run a 35 turn and FXR esc. It is very compact and easy to setup. If you stick to most any quality electronics I think you will be happy. A lot of the eqipment on the 1:1 is available in 10 scale, tires rims winches an many scaler pcs. Looks to be a cool rig I will be subscribing, good luck