Finding Nemo’s new setup

[wyd]

I run the same F-100 and found my truck when I originally bought it would torque twist the passengers front tire off the ground when climbing as my motor setup is in the stock location.

After reading over what all was done to your truck I see why yours torques opposite than mine as I guess yours has some kind of motor forward kit so your motor is I think spinning some extra gears which rotate opposite of mine since yours torques right and your motor is mounted more forward as well so your overall rotation is opposite of stock. I'm sure most stock setup truck torque the chassis left vs yours being right. I would do try the shock mod on the right rear shock. Looks like your motor sits higher overall than the stock setup so I think that might exagerate your torque twist some as well.

[Itali83]

Originally Posted by mgputer

To help keep the front down you need to stiffen the pre-load on the rear shocks.

Also if it was acting unpredictable it's a good sign the spring pre-load is to soft all the way round .

There are several things you can do like out boarding the rear shocks and the shock MOD. All easy and pretty much cost free.

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I put in my post that I’ve already outboarded all the shocks, and did the shock collar mod. I don’t want to crank the preload on the rear shocks because then the rear sits way too high in the rear. I’m running droop in the front about half way. All 4 shocks are already limited 10mm internally so I don’t want to go more in the rear. Thinking tried and true sway bar is where it’s at. My original ascender with sway bar and other mods is practically untouchable with the group I run with so I’m thinking no use trying to reinvent the wheel here.

Ben

[mgputer]

Originally Posted by Itali83

I put in my post that I’ve already outboarded all the shocks, and did the shock collar mod. I don’t want to crank the preload on the rear shocks because then the rear sits way too high in the rear. I’m running droop in the front about half way. All 4 shocks are already limited 10mm internally so I don’t want to go more in the rear. Thinking tried and true sway bar is where it’s at. My original ascender with sway bar and other mods is practically untouchable with the group I run with so I’m thinking no use trying to reinvent the wheel here.

Ben

Sorry I misread the post and didn't see you already outboard the shocks etc. I skipped a line?

But with a rig that has higher torque twist you can't run your shocks really soft. I tried it on my f100 to lower it and while it looked better it was undrivable. If you look at the MOD to lower the body from rich's post, you can ride the same height and it will crawl better.

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[Itali83]

Originally Posted by mgputer

Sorry I misread the post and didn't see you already outboard the shocks etc. I skipped a line?

But with a rig that has higher torque twist you can't run your shocks really soft. I tried it on my f100 to lower it and while it looked better it was undrivable. If you look at the MOD to lower the body from rich's post, you can ride the same height and it will crawl better.

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Yeah, that’s an option too to add preload and then drop body some. Hell, I may leaf the rear too. I’ve had really good luck with that set up too. I’ve got all winter to think about it.

Ben

[Natedog]

Originally Posted by mgputer

...But with a rig that has higher torque twist you can't run your shocks really soft.

Yes, that's why my K10 runs Vaterra stiff upper and lower rear springs with Rich's shock collar mod.

Originally Posted by Itali83

... Hell, I may leaf the rear too. I’ve had really good luck with that set up too. I’ve got all winter to think about it.

Ben

That's not a bad option.

[Itali83]

Originally Posted by Natedog

Yes, that's why my K10 runs Vaterra stiff upper and lower rear springs with Rich's shock collar mod.





That's not a bad option.

So Nate, is the ride height higher on the K-10 than the old blazer? How much internally did you limit the k-10’s shocks? Also, since Nemo has the motor forward set up, the rear is extra light, making it nose heavy and doing the downward dog pose which I’m not too fond of looks wise. So I’m wondering if with my specific set up I need to limit the rear shocks some more, put the stiff springs in it and basically have 1/2 the travel in the rear with super stiff springs to get it to sit somewhat level and not fold over in the steep climbs. But with that idea, seems like the same as a sway bar just different way of doing it.
Hhhhmmmmm....

Ben

[mgputer]

Originally Posted by Itali83

So Nate, is the ride height higher on the K-10 than the old blazer? How much internally did you limit the k-10’s shocks? Also, since Nemo has the motor forward set up, the rear is extra light, making it nose heavy and doing the downward dog pose which I’m not too fond of looks wise. So I’m wondering if with my specific set up I need to limit the rear shocks some more, put the stiff springs in it and basically have 1/2 the travel in the rear with super stiff springs to get it to sit somewhat level and not fold over in the steep climbs. But with that idea, seems like the same as a sway bar just different way of doing it.
Hhhhmmmmm....

Ben

Since you are using an internal limiter you can get some internal springs to use inside the shocks instead. It takes some tinkering to get the right weight of spring but I use them to help with torque twist and it makes them sit lower without losing to much travel. Works better than a sway bar. They will typically sit at about half mast but due to the spring it allows it to twist until the internal spring bottoms out which is probably the same as the internal limiter. The internal springs I use are the ones from the old venom creeper shocks. They had internal and external springs because the thing had so much torque twist.

[Natedog]

Ben,
My Blazer and K10 ride about same, K10 body is heavier with the cage and all. I'm at WB3 with it (lengthened rear to WB4 resulting in Wb3), setup is completly different. IIRC K10 is internally limited 5mm, Blazer is 9mm. I'm not front motor on either, but that requires mounting battery rearward imo, like my TF2.

Mgputer, internal springs may help too but they are a messy pita to tune because of the disassembly required and all the oil.

[Itali83]

Nate, I’m just kind of at a loss because looking at your last pictures of the k-10, I have the same suspension set up except my rear springs are out boarded and yours are not. The shocks are set up differently but the geometry of the suspension is the same. I have the stock black springs top and bottom, not sure if they’re soft or medium ones. And the shocks are limited 10mm internally. I’m at wb3, panhard is in the same position as yours, my upper link is basically the same and this thing handles like garbage.

The front of the truck is about the exact same as my blazer, but the rear is much higher because of forward weight bias of the truck. Thus the reason I have the rear preload completely backed off. I do have the shock collar mod
Done on the rear shocks too.

Ben

[skybolt]

Who’d you get that thing from anyway?? I’d ask for a refund!!


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[Itali83]

Originally Posted by skybolt

Who’d you get that thing from anyway?? I asked for a refund!!


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Some fast talking arm twisting used car salesman type I remember.

Ben

[Natedog]

I need to re-outboard my K10 rear shocks, works better against TT. Stock springs are medium upper and lower. I'd also try firm rear and maybe front upper and lower springs with preload backed off. Also do Rich's shock collar mod on all 4 shocks, not just rears. As posted above, the forward motor setup should probably have battery moved back.

Picture of your setup RTR?

[Itali83]

Nose down position.





At ride height. I’ve got to check which way this thing actually twists because I’ve flipped the rear upside down to make sure my shock collars are set correctly.

Ben


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[Itali83]

Few more pictures of the front shocks. Probably should do the collar mod to these too...



Those gray springs came in a goodie bag from my friend Codyboy,not sure if they’re Vaterra pieces but think they are. They’re stiffer than the black ones. I had to run those with the preload to keep the nose up somewhat from all the motor weight. I do have a pair of gray big springs I can put in the rear to try.



They are shorter but much stiffer. Again, not sure if they’re Vaterra pieces or not. I can tell you for sure that these are the only springs I’ll be trying. $20 for a set of upper OR lower springs and that’s only two of each!? So $40 just to try springs and that’s only for 2 shocks!? Don’t think so Vaterra, that’s crazy.

This whole shock collar mod thing is kind of blowing my mind though. For it to help with torque twist, it seems that you set your ride height with the added collar which now makes the upper spring useless. So why not just use one single spring? I’m going to try moving my limited selection of springs around but my patience is waining.

Ben


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[M1tch]

I thought the shock collar mod was to limit the travel of the upper spring which makes the lower spring do more work. The Gmade shocks I bought do the same thing. I just got a pair of softer lower springs to try on my K10 as it's set up like yours with a lot of front weight, so I want to use the softer springs on the back.

Set your preload with the preload ring, then use the collar to limit upper spring travel. Sorry if I'm telling you what you already know, but it's trial and error to get the setting right.

I get enough articulation now, but am trying to limit the front and make the rear do more work. If the fronts moves too much it affects sidehilling I think and the truck should be more stable then as it's less likely to roll with the weight forward. I may be wrong tho (disclaimer) :/

[Natedog]

Those grey springs are not Vaterra, might be Axial or Proline, but not Vaterra.

I'd try firm lower springs all four shocks since your motor forward, otherwise just the rears. Shock collar mod all four shocks, but at least rears. Can't see in the pics but rear upper link needs some type of RULR setup to raise it parallel with lower links or slightly higher at front.

Short springs in two spring setup should always be same as lower spring rate or slightly softer. Longer of the two should be same rate or stiffer, not softer.

[Itali83]

Nate, rear upper link is parallel to lower links with a raised mount in the front. I’ll take some pictures of everything tonight in it’s current state. Didn’t realize that I didn’t have an overview picture of the chassis as is.

I only have the collar mod done on the rear shocks. Don’t have a spare set of collars to cut up and don’t want to steal them from my complete set of stock shocks either. I’ll match up the front springs uppers and lowers, put those gray stiff springs in the rear and see how that does. If not, I’m not spending crazy money on the Vaterra springs, I’ll put the sway bar back on it and run the wheels off it.

Thanks for all your help and ideas guys.

Ben

[Itali83]

Ok, did a few things tonight. First, I took my steering knuckles off to see why there was binding. Found that the bottom “ear” of the plastic C hub was rubbing on the aluminum knuckle and causing hard steering ad servo stall. Did the dremel trick to make some clearance and all is right now with the steering. I kept the plastic c hubs because with the now narrowed axle, the flange of the c hub tucks inbetween
The axle housing and lower link mount. The aluminum c hubs have a thicker flange and I didn’t feel like grinding them. The stock c hubs are plenty strong for my driving so I’m not the least bit worried

I put those grey shorts stiff springs in the rear. They’re 5mm shorter which I think is good. It keeps the rear lower without having to back the preload off a ton so the rear is quite stiff now. The truck sits slightly nose down but that’s ok.

I took some time to figure out exactly which way this thing torque twists and it actually twists BOTH ways lol. Because the rear axle is flipped, when the weight is on the rear wheels the truck leans to the right(passenger side). But when on level flat ground, the truck leans to the left slightly. The forward weight bias and front axle overdrive causes it to twist that way and basically drag the rear along. So now that I know that, I had to suck it up and deal with the slight twist on the level and try to combat twist on the climbs. I set the collar on the right rear a little lower than the left to get on that stiff main spring just a bit sooner to hopefully keep the truck level and predictable on the steep climbs. Going to give this one more shot if and when I get a chance to see how it does.

On to the pictures.



Spring height difference



Parallel rear links



Mount for upper rear link



Upper link inline with chassis. There is a bit of flex with stock plastic mount on axle. I’m debating on putting a metal one on there or just letting it be. Don’t feel like drilling housing for 3rd bolt mod and also don’t feel like breaking mounting bolts either so I don’t know just yet



Right rear shock at ride height



Left rear at ride height



Ride height on the bench.

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[Itali83]

Another thing, i posted in the electronics section and how noisy the 1080 esc was. I changed the PWM setting to the highest, 16k, silent now. Hoping that’ll be ok but it’s silent. Nice!

Ben


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[M1tch]

I swapped the stock upper link mount for a GCM one and also used 3mm screws instead of the standard 2.5mm (I think thats the size) about 16mm long. They screw in without any pre drilling and I havent had a problen yet. The upper links needs to be 6mm shorter for the GCM mount.