Go Back   RCCrawler Forums > Scale Rigs Brand Specific Tech > Vaterra Scale Rock Crawlers > Vaterra Twin Hammers
Loading

Notices

Thread: Twin Hammers Questions

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-17-2016, 06:44 PM   #1
Pebble Pounder
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: GR
Posts: 110
Default Twin Hammers Questions

Gentlemen,

Finally got a TH, but I'm a bit confused by the options available and why I should buy them.

The first that leaves me semi baffled is the front shock towers. I see GCM and Blue Monkey make some cool options, but I'm flexing the front with the shocks off and there isn't anymore flex available...so what's the point?

Secondly, all these batt trays. Why not flip the servo to the other side and use the chassis as a battery mount??? Zero dollar upgrade and leaves a ton more space than anything else, plus lower COG.

Third, this two speed craziness. Do I keep it or ditch it? I like speed and I like to crawl, does it make that big of a difference?

Four...dual rear shocks. Seems overly scale and look cool as hell, but totally useless for a 4 lb rig.

Just thoughts, let me know what you think!

Creepin......
Creepcreep is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 09-17-2016, 06:52 PM   #2
Quarry Creeper
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 237
Default Re: Twin Hammers Questions

I love the GCM Shock towers and plate - incorporates the front battery mount and the shocks work a lot better standing up, plus you get some nice shock options.
Batt tray gets answered by the GCM towers and plate as mentioned above.
Two speed - are you staying brushed??
Dual shocks - looks good, totally useless as you mentioned


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
byrnieman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2016, 07:09 PM   #3
Pebble Pounder
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: GR
Posts: 110
Default Re: Twin Hammers Questions

Have you noticed a difference though? (With GCM)

Also...with Currie or any other upgraded rear axle, do you lose stability as the trailing arms aren't as wide?

Thx for the info byrnieman!!!!!
Creepcreep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2016, 07:12 PM   #4
Quarry Creeper
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Orange County
Posts: 372
Default Re: Twin Hammers Questions

For front shocks also look into the Scorched parts on shapeways. They move the servo in front of the motor like you were talking about. He also sells a battery tray to mount a battery on the chassis. I plan on getting one once I get some more money.

2-speed is fun but not necessary especially if you have a good brushless motor.

Dual rear shocks look cool and provide slightly more dampening but are pretty much for looks.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk
Di_Spencer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2016, 07:26 PM   #5
Pebble Pounder
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: GR
Posts: 110
Default Re: Twin Hammers Questions

Thanks for the advice guys. Think I'm going to leave the shocks alone for now since I haven't even driven it yet.... Bought a roller and plan on running a brushed 12t for the sake of keeping it simple. In looking at the front driveshafts, i think I'm going to get the universals first before doing anything with the shocks. They seem to be the game changer as the stock shocks aren't even getting fully compressed.

Have you had good luck with 3D printed parts? I have my reservations as the plastic always seems to be very cheap, but I've never bought from that provider so what do I know?!?!?

Thanks again, keep it coming! Can't wait to drive this thing!
Creepcreep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2016, 08:28 PM   #6
Quarry Creeper
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Orange County
Posts: 372
Default Re: Twin Hammers Questions

Shapeways plastic is very tough as it is printed in nylon in a different way. He has also torture tested his parts and they appear to be well made.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk
Di_Spencer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 04:44 AM   #7
Dbx
Quarry Creeper
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Midlands
Posts: 317
Default Re: Twin Hammers Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Creepcreep View Post
Have you noticed a difference though? (With GCM)

Also...with Currie or any other upgraded rear axle, do you lose stability as the trailing arms aren't as wide?

Thx for the info byrnieman!!!!!
I spent quite a bit of time messing with the front suspension. You are right that the stock setup already offers you all available travel, and is hard to beat. The only downsides are the addition friction in the system - my Vaterra rod ends run really tight. The longer stroke of upright shocks will impove damping consistancy and tune-ability, but you gotta be keen to really feel the difference imo.
I looked at various full upright setups, but many shock options result in reduced travel. As in the post i made the other week, you need to watch your full compression, and full extention points and find a shock that works. Axial icon 61-90 shocks have a really good length to travel ratio, and therefore are a fexible fit when you start limiting their length and compression.

I found you are also very right about the servo and battery move, and the effect on C of G. Way better than stock position or battery up front. This, with the bell crank steering made the biggest change to handling performance. Other than these two changes, i think that Vaterra have done a fabulous job on the TH. Given my use of the rig, there's nothing else i'm wanting to change.
Dbx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 06:19 AM   #8
Pebble Pounder
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: GR
Posts: 110
Default Re: Twin Hammers Questions

Great info guys! I went ahead and checked out Scorcheds page, very very cool stuff in there. Since I want to run a full hood body(not which one yet), the new design won't work for me, but I do like the current design for suspension/steering fix. Probably going to buy that. Does anyone know if you can get 3D printed parts in white?

Thanks again. I'm sure more questions will be coming.....
Creepcreep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 06:29 AM   #9
Pebble Pounder
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: GR
Posts: 110
Default Re: Twin Hammers Questions

Wait wait wait....two more questions.

SCX10 Axles; since the mounting points are more towards the pumpkin, do you lose stability?
-also, has anyone had bad or good luck running scx10 axles? I want, but don't think I'll go there unless it keeps gear ratios the same.

Brushed motor options; E Maxx 550 motor a good drop in option? I have a bunch laying around from my other rigs and figured I would just throw one of those in there.

Thanks so much guys! Eh...I've been missing this forum, I don't run my scale rigs much in the summer and it's refreshing how much more helpful people are over here. (F rctech)
Creepcreep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 08:23 AM   #10
Dbx
Quarry Creeper
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Midlands
Posts: 317
Default Re: Twin Hammers Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Creepcreep View Post
Wait wait wait....two more questions.

SCX10 Axles; since the mounting points are more towards the pumpkin, do you lose stability?
-also, has anyone had bad or good luck running scx10 axles? I want, but don't think I'll go there unless it keeps gear ratios the same.

Brushed motor options; E Maxx 550 motor a good drop in option? I have a bunch laying around from my other rigs and figured I would just throw one of those in there.

Thanks so much guys! Eh...I've been missing this forum, I don't run my scale rigs much in the summer and it's refreshing how much more helpful people are over here. (F rctech)
The 550 will perhaps fit, but will take up the space for a rhs servo if thats the way you wanted to go. Scorched Parts upgrade, now available in white.
Dbx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 10:20 AM   #11
RCC Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: central VT
Posts: 1,913
Default Re: Twin Hammers Questions

There is no more travel to be gained by going to upright shocks. As mentioned, you gain reduced friction from the rod ends (especially if your run in grungy environments) and some prefer the look of shocks sticking up past the hood.

Keep in mind that SCX axles have a different gear ratio than the stock Vattera units. You will certainly lose roll stability by moving the axle ends of the trailing arms closer together. Also keep in mind that the Vattera axles are IMO stronger than the SCX's, both in ring/pinion, axles shaft, and housing strength. I've broken/worn through a half dozen axial housings, and bent shafts, over the years, but the Twin Hammers is still going strong. It's wicked gouged up from abuse, but no holes and it's still true. I was skeptical of it's strength when I assembled it years ago with all the small hardware, but apparently Vattera's engineers are much smarter than me!

The only thing on a Twin Hammers that really needs to be upgraded is the steering. The stock sliding rack will be super loose and somehow still binds horrifically within a couple hours of runtime. I'm running the Sr. Erie bell crank kit and it is worth every penny to have precise friction-free steering. It can work with either the stock lay-down shocks or longer 85mm units in a standup arrangement.

The stock kit shocks are actually very nice. They do a great job of holding oil and resisting bent shafts. They take pistons for the older XXX series of Losi vehicles, so there are lots of pistons available if you feel the need to tinker. There is no need for multiple rear shocks, if you need more damping run thicker oil. I'm running Associated 70 weight in the back of mine and it feels very good both when crawling and hauling/jumping.

The two speed was one of the main draws to this kit for me. I really like being able to crawl and haul without having to compromise on the gearing. Meaning that if you setup a single speed to haul, it's going to crawl lousy, and make the motor hot. But if you gear it to run cool and crawl, you have virtually no top speed. The two speed allows you more of a window to get the gearing in the sweet spot for all applications. It shifts very smoothly, so you can get away with a very cheap shift servo as long as you set the end point travels precisely.

You can run a E-maxx 550, but your not going to be able to fit the servo in front of it. And if you run it on 2s it will be slow, since it's meant to run on 4s in a Maxx. 3s would probably be decent since the TH is much lighter than a Maxx.

The stock battery location may look less than ideal, but if you run small/light packs it's not an issue. I run 2200mah 2s and 3s packs in the stock location and the truck still has a better COG than say, and SCX or Wraith. Keep in mind if you move the pack down onto the chassis you either have to get crafty to install/remove it, or just designate it to the truck and charge it in the truck. The stock location makes battery changes very easy, which is important if you go on miles long hikes like I do.
meatmonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 02:17 PM   #12
Rock Crawler
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Playing with toys with my son's
Posts: 616
Default Re: Twin Hammers Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Creepcreep View Post
Gentlemen,

Finally got a TH, but I'm a bit confused by the options available and why I should buy them.

The first that leaves me semi baffled is the front shock towers. I see GCM and Blue Monkey make some cool options, but I'm flexing the front with the shocks off and there isn't anymore flex available...so what's the point?

Secondly, all these batt trays. Why not flip the servo to the other side and use the chassis as a battery mount??? Zero dollar upgrade and leaves a ton more space than anything else, plus lower COG.

Third, this two speed craziness. Do I keep it or ditch it? I like speed and I like to crawl, does it make that big of a difference?

Four...dual rear shocks. Seems overly scale and look cool as hell, but totally useless for a 4 lb rig.

Just thoughts, let me know what you think!

Creepin......
Gentlemen on the interwebs

Upright tower is not about flexing better its about tune ability, more shock options, less friction. Being able to use the scale travel well that the TH has.

Allot of folks have done as such. For me a shorty pack in the factory spot gives just the right weight balance for out of control, control.

Keep it. Why would you not want a truck that can crawl as slow as you would like and still run out at 25MPH or more, I see no down side.

Dual shocks unnecessary but look the business.
Sr.Irie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 11:05 PM   #13
Pebble Pounder
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Carmichael
Posts: 169
Default Re: Twin Hammers Questions

I have had no issues running my Derwood designs shock tower and by upgrading my axles gave me more travel. I also use St. Irie steering setup which works perfect.


onecool54@yahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2016, 01:34 AM   #14
Rock Stacker
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 56
Default Re: Twin Hammers Questions

There's only a limited window of suspension travel when using the stock outdrives with the factory drive shafts - this doesn't change if using an upright shock mod. When you have a good look at the stock suspension arrangement you will see that the axle / drive shaft will either hit the outdrive end, or the driveshaft will hit the 'cup' at the other end where the CV is if the driveshaft is put at its maximum angle (suspension at maximum droop or maximum compression). Not sure I've explained that overly well though...

I've just done a drive shaft mod on the front of mine using MIP style drive shafts, and even with this set up you still need to remove material off the suspension arms and mod tie rods to maximise suspension travel, otherwise components clash.

Last edited by Rotare; 09-19-2016 at 05:10 AM.
Rotare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2016, 06:19 PM   #15
Pebble Pounder
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: GR
Posts: 110
Default Re: Twin Hammers Questions

OK...so here's my two cents after staring at this thing for a few days now.

(Travel increase possibilities)

Problem: driveshaft hits on the arm
Solution: remove material from arm
Needed items: Dremel

Problem: driveshaft is either too short or too long to gain more travel
Solution: telescoping driveshaft
Needed items: mini revo driveshafts

Problem: too short of shocks
Solution: add longer shocks
Needed items: money

Problem: upgrade axle makes body sway too much when driving
Solution: sway bars, extended axle mounts for stock mounting location
Needed items: threaded rod, sway bars

Problem: steering servo in the way of a decent battery tray
Solution: Scorched servo/shock relocator
Needed items: (see solution)

(All that is assuming you want what I want which is something all of the rest of you don't have)

Do I dare? Yup.
Creepcreep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2016, 09:54 PM   #16
Quarry Creeper
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Orange County
Posts: 372
Default Re: Twin Hammers Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Creepcreep View Post
OK...so here's my two cents after staring at this thing for a few days now.

(Travel increase possibilities)

Problem: driveshaft hits on the arm
Solution: remove material from arm
Needed items: Dremel

Problem: driveshaft is either too short or too long to gain more travel
Solution: telescoping driveshaft
Needed items: mini revo driveshafts

Problem: too short of shocks
Solution: add longer shocks
Needed items: money

Problem: upgrade axle makes body sway too much when driving
Solution: sway bars, extended axle mounts for stock mounting location
Needed items: threaded rod, sway bars

Problem: steering servo in the way of a decent battery tray
Solution: Scorched servo/shock relocator
Needed items: (see solution)

(All that is assuming you want what I want which is something all of the rest of you don't have)

Do I dare? Yup.
Interesting idea with the mini revo driveshafts do you have pics of it done or how to do it?

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk
Di_Spencer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2016, 02:33 AM   #17
Pebble Pounder
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Carmichael
Posts: 169
Default Re: Twin Hammers Questions

Omg. Look at this.

onecool54@yahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2016, 07:43 AM   #18
Quarry Creeper
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 334
Default Re: Twin Hammers Questions

I've been working on a TH kit I managed to pick up on the cheap as well, and have some questions, so might as well stick them here.

1) I noticed that the rear swaybar interferes with the battery tray. Did I mount it incorrectly, or is it intended this way. I think I can avoid the problem by shortening the swaybar a bit (cut off the angled pieces). Is that a good fix?
2) I noticed there's quite a bit of play in the steering. I don't think I've mounted anything wrong, so I'm guessing that's the design. Any easy way to fix this?
IVIaarten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2016, 01:15 PM   #19
Rock Crawler
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Playing with toys with my son's
Posts: 616
Default Re: Twin Hammers Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by IVIaarten View Post
1) I noticed that the rear swaybar interferes with the battery tray. Did I mount it incorrectly, or is it intended this way. I think I can avoid the problem by shortening the swaybar a bit (cut off the angled pieces). Is that a good fix?
Precisely what needs to be done, some swaybars I do not have to cut just bend. Picture is at full compression.


Quote:
Originally Posted by IVIaarten View Post
2) I noticed there's quite a bit of play in the steering. I don't think I've mounted anything wrong, so I'm guessing that's the design. Any easy way to fix this?
Yes there is play when built correctly. The solution, new steering. Irie Products
Sr.Irie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2016, 03:49 AM   #20
Quarry Creeper
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 334
Default Re: Twin Hammers Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sr.Irie View Post
Precisely what needs to be done, some swaybars I do not have to cut just bend. Picture is at full compression.
Shortened the swaybar, works like a charm. Have full compression now.

Was a bit of a hassle getting the red threadlocker (from the builders kit) loose again. Had to heat up the the whole thing up to almost melting temperature to get it loose again.
IVIaarten is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Twin Hammers Questions - Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thinking about getting a twin hammers, have some questions theTman Vaterra Twin Hammers 16 04-23-2014 12:31 PM
Twin Hammers Questions Genghis Ken Vaterra Twin Hammers 7 04-30-2013 10:53 AM
Twin Hammers electronics questions ericsarge Electronics 2 02-18-2013 11:52 AM
Twin Hammers Motor and ESC questions Baja Bandido Vaterra Twin Hammers 14 02-11-2013 05:36 PM
Vaterra Twin Hammers questions??? jthellfire911 Vaterra Twin Hammers 7 02-03-2013 06:10 PM
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2004-2014 RCCrawler.com