WLToys Clone Hammers Budget Build

[Brake Weight]

It’s basically a VTH clone, the chassis and drivetrain. At least 95%, or more, of the parts interchange.

Not to be to dismal, but a used VTH can be had for the same price if you keep up with the classifieds here. I got one for $130 last year with a dx3e. But they’re getting very scarce.

[Jim85IROC]

Originally Posted by makya

I've been thinking about getting one of these myself, after owning the TH five or six times I always end up getting rid of it because I throw too much into it. It's too small to compete with trail rigs, but it's not scale enough to compare with tamiya-sized scale trucks. Having the clone version makes it easier to buy in and modify by spending $150 vs. $400 for an RTR.

One of the things that really appealed to me for this particular model was that it models a side-by-side instead of a full size vehicle, so it's more scale appropriate when used with my Gen7 and my Bomber. Sorta.

Originally Posted by Brake Weight

It’s basically a VTH clone, the chassis and drivetrain. At least 95%, or more, of the parts interchange.

Not to be to dismal, but a used VTH can be had for the same price if you keep up with the classifieds here. I got one for $130 last year with a dx3e. But they’re getting very scarce.

Used vehicles can always be had at a bargain, but because I'm doing this build for my youtube channel, I wanted to be able to use a vehicle that anybody can go get. Trying to duplicate a build that starts with a used vehicle isn't really practical.

Originally Posted by StomperCrawler

Do these have plastic or metal diff gears? Lockers? Tranny gears? Are the tranny and diff outputs standard 5mm or something else? I'm assuming 12mm hexes for the wheels? Parts support available? Sorry for the legion of questions. LOLZ

As Brake Weight mentioned, this is 95% identical to (and compatible with) Twin Hammers parts.
Front & rear diff/locker parts are all metal. Transmission gears are plastic, but can be upgraded to metal if you manage to destroy the plastic parts. I didn't measure the tranny & diff outputs, but I believe they're standard 5mm stuff. Hexes are normal 12mm fare. Parts support is abundant since TH parts fit.

[Rotare]

I have two genuine Twin Hammers and a WLToys knock off for my son.

Although these knock offs seem great value compared to a genuine Twin Hammers, I think longer term it's actually a bit of a false economy.

As a generalisation the overall quality isn't as good as the Vaterra product - from the plastic and plastic components, metal components and fittings, to the electronics.

The electronics and radio are great when they work, but ours went up in smoke after about 5 or 6 battery packs, which meant new controller, ECU, steering servo and a BL motor.

I found no amount of fiddling with the standard shocks could make them work, they leaked like sieves too, so they were replaced.

All the bearings in the diffs disintegrated after short use. As stated by someone else, the drive cups are soft and wear out super fast, as do the dog bones. I found the bead locks rubbish and the tyres would constantly pop out. The hex pins bend, the hex holes in the axles flog out and the hex nut themselves are as soft as butter. I could go on about what broke, bent, seized or was stripped after a short time, but the items were numerous.

For your interests, the knock off TH was running a 3000Kv 2 pole motor on 2S, while my genuine TH's were running 3500KV 4 pole motors on 3S. The genuine TH were driven harder and more frequently than the knock off, but I didn't experience the amount of problems and continual component failures that were had with the TH copy. This is not to say the genuine TH were faultless, stuff broke and wore out on these cars too, but there was no comparison in reliability and failure rate between the genuine and copy.

I'm might get flamed for this post and I'm sure my comments may not sit well with some, but I'm not against people buying copies and I understand that the initial price point is good and why it's attractive. But in my experience if I add up what it cost to replace all the parts and components that failed or just needed replacing after a short use, it would have been more cost effective just to buy a genuine second hand TH. Even buying genuine from new isn't so bad if you're chasing reliability and want a solid base platform to work from IMO.

Having owned both genuine and copy versions of the Twin hammers, I pass this info on in good faith, not to rubbish people for buying a copy.

Cheers.

[Dbx]

You are not the only one to find the WL toys is a false economy.
When you factor in the the money, time, effort and disappointment involved every time you break your RC car, buying a cheap knockoff makes little sense.

There nothing wrong with going out and getting the WL toys - they are still great value for money, ond the body options are really cool. Don’t want to hijack a good thread, but the toughness and reliability if the TH format is one of its best points, and I see the WL toys damaging this reputation.

[Jim85IROC]

All valid points to consider. From my perspective, a $300 RTR vs a $130 RTR that had crap electronics was still a fairly easy choice, especially considering that I preferred the cosmetics of the latter. In my case, this will be a brushed, low speed vehicle, so the durability is less of a concern than it would be if it was a 3S brushless basher. $300 for the TH wasn't ever going to work for me because at that price point, there are a lot of other vehicles that I prefer.

[Brake Weight]

Take into consideration every Axial ‘crawler’ comes with electronics that need to be swapped out for a consistent crawler. My Yeti still has stock electronics though. But some may say they’re junk, too. All a matter of perspective.

[Dbx]

My kit wraith needed lockers, bevel gears, trans gears, servos, servo arms, tube frame parts, multiple link ends, wheels.... etc... rust to keep it running... all in the first few weeks. I wasn't impressed.
That is why I love the Twin Hammers, and why it is such great value for money.

[Jim85IROC]

Originally Posted by Brake Weight

Take into consideration every Axial ‘crawler’ comes with electronics that need to be swapped out for a consistent crawler. My Yeti still has stock electronics though. But some may say they’re junk, too. All a matter of perspective.

That's the thing. Sure, I'm going to end up tossing all of the electronics except hopefully for the motor, but chances are I would have done that with a genuine TH too. It's why I bought the Bomber kit instead of the RTR. I knew I wouldn't keep that crap anyway, so why pay for it?

That said, so far I have no major complaints with the Clone Hammers electronics with the exception of the servo. The electronics aren't great, but they're perfectly adequate (minus the servo). The controller is actually quite nice, and it's a downright shame that I can't get a receiver for it so that I could keep it when I dump everything else.

I have a hail-mary option that I'm going to try on the servo right before I swap the electronics to see what I can do with it. ;)

[Rotare]

That's the thing. Sure, I'm going to end up tossing all of the electronics except hopefully for the motor, but chances are I would have done that with a genuine TH too. It's why I bought the Bomber kit instead of the RTR. I knew I wouldn't keep that crap anyway, so why pay for it?

Agree with your point, and my genuine TH's are hardly stock any more and have had plenty of upgrades. That's one of the great aspects of this hobby.

But I think the subtle difference is the forced need to upgrade versus wanting to upgrade at a pre-determined time down the track.

It's not uncommon for stock electronics on any vehicle to be eventually replaced and upgraded for better components, but being forced to upgrade and replace these items cause they went up in smoke on day 3 of ownership kinda sucks. And in the TH knock off with regards to electronics, it's not just the ECU that has to be replaced, its the controller, receiver and servo all in one go.

Apply that same logic to the shocks that leaked profusely or the bead locks that wouldn't hold the tyres in even at low speed running, and you're forced to address these items from day one of using it, not some more convenient time in the future.

[Jim85IROC]

Replacing all of the electronics at once does suck, but if you plan for it, it's not so bad. My build is using a $20/week budget, and all of my updates so far have been low cost specifically so that money can be banked. Plus, there are some very low budget electronics options available, and those are what I'm going to test and evaluate. Is the real cheap stuff for everybody? No. Is it good enough quality to be a solid option for some? I don’t know yet. That's why I test it.

My shocks are doing great so far. No leaks and with the right oil & piston holes, they work fairly well. Are they great shocks? No. Are they good shocks? Not really. Are they tolerable? Yup.

So far the beadlocks are holding up fine. I replaced the tires already (that's next week's video) and the thicker beads on the new tires seem to hold even better.

Not everybody has enough money to build the high dollar rigs. Some just prefer the challenge that cheaper parts offer. Whatever the reason, a lot of people are interested in finding high value, low priced stuff. That's what my channel caters to.

[Rotare]

Originally Posted by Jim85IROC

Replacing all of the electronics at once does suck, but if you plan for it, it's not so bad. My build is using a $20/week budget, and all of my updates so far have been low cost specifically so that money can be banked. Plus, there are some very low budget electronics options available, and those are what I'm going to test and evaluate. Is the real cheap stuff for everybody? No. Is it good enough quality to be a solid option for some? I don’t know yet. That's why I test it.

My shocks are doing great so far. No leaks and with the right oil & piston holes, they work fairly well. Are they great shocks? No. Are they good shocks? Not really. Are they tolerable? Yup.

So far the beadlocks are holding up fine. I replaced the tires already (that's next week's video) and the thicker beads on the new tires seem to hold even better.

Not everybody has enough money to build the high dollar rigs. Some just prefer the challenge that cheaper parts offer. Whatever the reason, a lot of people are interested in finding high value, low priced stuff. That's what my channel caters to.

Yes, all fair points you make. I applaud you for giving it a go and what you're trying to offer via your channel.

I just often read on this forum people implying that the copies / clones are almost identical to the real deal. It's a broad statement, with some truth I suppose but at the same time can be misleading when pondering what being 'almost identical' really means...

[Jim85IROC]

Week 3 is up! This week I finally spent (almost) my full $20 budget. This week's upgrade was a new set of Austar AX-5020 tires.

The tire swap is pretty straightforward. The new foams are pretty soft, but for such a lightweight vehicle, I think they're ideal so I used them instead of transferring the stiffer foams in the original tires. The extra tire height is noticeable when driving, and so far the new tires seem to offer much better grip than the original tires. I'm looking forward to having a chance to drive outside as soon as the weather improves.

[Jim85IROC]

Week 4 is posted! This time I didn't lay out much cash, but I spent a lot of time designing this week's upgrade. I got really sick of having to take a million screws on and off every time I wanted to get to the chassis to make changes, so I designed and printed a magnetic body mount for the rear of the vehicle that mounts to the shock tower, and has a corresponding mount on the cage above it. This makes it a piece of cake to hinge the body up and out of the way, and when it's shut, it holds strong! The magnets are 1/2" x 1/8" N48 neodymium magnets that I bought on eBay.

10428b body mount by jim85iroc, on Flickr

You can see in the picture that the magnets are recessed into the tubes. This allows the magnets glued to the frame bar to sink in and prevents any lateral movement.

This upgrade will come in especially handy because one of my next upgrades is going to be to relocate the battery up front, which will require access every time I want to install or remove the battery.

Here's the video:


The STL files are on Thingiverse for those who would like to print them:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2815010

[Jim85IROC]

Well unfortunately, this is the first week since I started this project that I wasn't able to post a video. The upgrade that I'm currently working on is kicking my ass. I've actually been working on it for a few weeks, gone through over a half a roll of filament and have a stack of not-quite-right prototype parts.

It's almost there, and I should be able to have it done by this weekend coming up.

Here's a sneak peak of one of my not-quite-ready models:

[reidinitaly]

What is that glorious contraption?!?!

[Brake Weight]

How far forward does that go?

[Jim85IROC]

Originally Posted by Brake Weight

How far forward does that go?

It goes all the way to the front bumper/body mount that the body hinges forward from. This is why I did last week's magnetic body mount. You can't have a forward battery tray on an RC that's got a cage with 50 screws holding it down.

Originally Posted by reidinitaly

What is that glorious contraption?!?!

Just your run of the mill front bumper support / body hinge / battery tray / vertical shock hoop support / bellcrank steering upgrade.

[reidinitaly]

Originally Posted by Jim85IROC

Just your run of the mill front bumper support / body hinge / battery tray / vertical shock hoop support / bellcrank steering upgrade.

Nice!

[Jim85IROC]

Week 2 without a video, but at least the parts are done! Yesterday I decided to take advantage of the 60+ inches of snow we've gotten in the last 10 days and went snowmobiling instead of hiding in my basement shooting a video.

For all both people who care, I should have the video up in a couple days.

[Jim85IROC]

I'm 2 weeks late, but I finally have my next update!
This week's update adds a custom designed 3D printed front bulkhead that provides vertical shock mounting, bell crank steering and an adjustable front mount battery tray! This represents a major upgrade for the 10428 series of Twin Hammers style vehicles.

This new design replaces the laydown shocks with nearly vertical 90mm shocks for smoother suspension action, it replaces the sliding steering rack with a more conventional bell crank system that works smoother and provides more steering angle, and it moves the battery forward (and lower) for better weight bias & CoG when crawling.

The only parts you need in addition to the 3D printed bulkhead & accessories is a set of rear SCX10 shock hoops, a new servo horn, and some miscellaneous mounting hardware, so this upgrade will only set you back about $22.

The new design replaces the laydown shocks, the rocker arms, the shock links that connect the a-arms and the rockers, the bulkhead under the laydown shocks, and the steering rack underneath the bulkhead. In it's place, you mount the new bulkhead with the bellcranks mounted beneath. One of the shock links is reused to connect the bellcranks, and the other gives up its ball studs to replace the lower ball studs in the new shocks. A new servo arm is required because of spacing as well as a need for more throw out of the servo.

Here are a couple 3D renderings of the bulkhead:
10428 Battery Tray2 by jim85iroc, on Flickr

10428 Battery Tray by jim85iroc, on Flickr

Here's a view of the underside:
10428 Battery Tray5 by jim85iroc, on Flickr

And here's a view of the part with all of the accessories:
10428 Battery Tray everything by jim85iroc, on Flickr
The piece in front is the battery stop plate that mounts to the bulkhead in one of 3 different positions depending on your battery length. The pieces in the lower right corner are the bulkheads. The long piece on the far side of the bulkhead is the shock tower support bar, and the two pieces in the upper corner are the shock spacers.

Here are some pics of it installed:
Battery tray by jim85iroc, on Flickr

Battery tray by jim85iroc, on Flickr

Battery tray by jim85iroc, on Flickr

Battery tray by jim85iroc, on Flickr

Battery tray by jim85iroc, on Flickr

Battery tray by jim85iroc, on Flickr

Battery tray by jim85iroc, on Flickr

I'm really stoked at how this came out, and I can't wait for our snow to melt so I can get out there and run it!

This week we started with a balance of $45.
The total spent this week is $22, which leaves a balance of $43 from this week that can be carried over.

The Thingiverse files for the printed parts can be found here:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2839924

Additional parts used:
90mm shocks: $9 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Aluminum-Sh...72.m2749.l2649
Aluminum servo arm: $2 https://www.ebay.com/itm/25T-CNC-Alu...EAAOSwBoxaj3oJ
SCX10 AX80025 Rear Shock Hoops: $11.25 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Axial-Racin...72.m2749.l2649
Miscellaneous 3mm & 2.5mm screws

Here's the video for it:


Make sure to check out the whole upgrade series:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...eEyjOK3WH96uJr