There’s something new on the horizon………………

[4RnrRick]

Well I never seen pictures of the stick design until I showed mine 'WTF' to a buddy and he showed me a very poor 'spy' photo of THE STICK. I'm still not sure what that looks like since the photo I seen was very poor quality.


I do agree that my design and Kevins are different but I did try the exact same thing in my design process.... so I think id did the same general thing that mine did.


The major problem that I've seen with these designs is the "sway" they have as you articluate them. thats what Toyofast, Hackster & rbgerrish called it. I'm not refering to the "floppyness" of the design but the axle offset as the vehicle flexes. the axles don't articulate on the center point of the axle (the imaginary point directly inbetween the tires) like a tradition setup but rather off the upper link(s) mounts. This makes the vehicle wander around quite a bit. the vehcile kinda goes where it wants to go. Now the 4ws you can control some of this but with only 2ws, it can be a PITA at time. my orignal test which was very close to Kevins pictures did this quite bad. hence if you look at my current 'WTF' you can see I've raised the upper links way up to try to over come this and that has helped. Som epeople call this "axle steer" but IMO its a little bit different than axle steer and my be more like axle offset or something like that....... another problem which I think my deisgn has and NOT Kevins is the axle wanting to drive under the chassis its really weird to see and I'm still not sure whats happening. so that could be a flaw that they both have but I know mine has it right now. I did mess around with my 5 link design that much so I can't say for sure.

[roktoy]

Jason.....that body is wild......bet I know what'll be all over the place soon.

Nice job!!

On the Xtreme.....I can see other possibilities of maybe dropping the "roll center" a bit.......

Jay

[JasonInAugusta]

Dang, Jason! Is that Mr. Fister's long lost cousin?

[BENDER]

Originally Posted by JasonInAugusta

Dang, Jason! Is that Mr. Fister's long lost cousin?

[Grizzly4x4]

Originally Posted by 4RnrRick

The major problem that I've seen with these designs is the "sway" they have as you articluate them. thats what Toyofast, Hackster & rbgerrish called it.

I know exactly what you are talking about. My rig does it too because of the limiting straps I use to suck down the ride height. They attach directly to the top link posts.

Originally Posted by 4RnrRick

....... another problem which I think my deisgn has and NOT Kevins is the axle wanting to drive under the chassis its really weird to see and I'm still not sure whats happening. so that could be a flaw that they both have but I know mine has it right now. I did mess around with my 5 link design that much so I can't say for sure.

Kevin's design can not invert. With the lower links being connected to the upper "link" it makes a rigid triangle.
Your chassis inverts because the upper links can move independent of the lowers and when the uppers swivel inside of the plastic clamps, they turn upside down and push the axles under. This is exaggerated by your super tall upper link posts. This can be clearly seen in the Clackamette video when you are climbing the concrete step.

Kevin, I think your new chassis is way cool and I look forward to seeing how my "traditional" design (with a few tweaks) compares to it. Great job. Please, please, please show us how you mount a battery. I think I know where the rest of the electronics go.

[4RnrRick]

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

Kevin's design can not invert. With the lower links being connected to the upper "link" it makes a rigid triangle.

I know kevins can't invert! but what I was trying to compare was the axle driving under itself when its flexed.... its really hard to explain.... I don't know if thats only happens with my twin upper link design or the single linnk design is what I was tring to say. I believe it will happen with this also......

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

This is exaggerated by your super tall upper link posts. This can be clearly seen in the Clackamette video when you are climbing the concrete step.

Thats EXACTLY why we shot that portion of that video on that concrete wall....... just to show what happens. the higher belly clearance is the invert mode. the lower position is how its suppose to stay. Its really hard to get it to invert the other way (up) but it can happen. I WILL be fixing that as soon as I get my 1:1 back up and running.... again I'm not trying to say Kevins is exactly like mine but I thought it was funny to see a company offer this 5-link design which I tried in the process of my WTF project. I guess I would just like a little credit for getting people to think outside the box if thats what happened...... if he was working on this before I posted picts of my WTF this is just a coquinedence (sp?) thats cool also - but I doubt it.

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

Kevin, I think your new chassis is way cool and I look forward to seeing how my "traditional" design (with a few tweaks) compares to it. Great job. Please, please, please show us how you mount a battery. I think I know where the rest of the electronics go.

I agree, I do like the few tweaks you've made over my WTF design. and I'm REALLY curious if it has the same flaws that I've noticed in mine........ please let me know if I started something here or if it was in the works before me since I'm just a RC noob....... if so I truely applogize for the conteversy...........

[SR5Dave]

Originally Posted by 4RnrRick

again I'm not trying to say Kevins is exactly like mine but I thought it was funny to see a company offer this 5-link design which I tried in the process of my WTF project. I guess I would just like a little credit for getting people to think outside the box if thats what happened...... if he was working on this before I posted picts of my WTF this is just a coquinedence (sp?) thats cool also - but I doubt it.

Your rig doesn't have 5 links, it has 7, 9? You couldn't get the 5 link to work, kev did.

Kev has been at this longer than you knew what a speed controller was. He has been thinking outside the box for RC stuff way before you even joined.

I'm not trying to bash you, I just want to clear things up.

[4RnrRick]

wow, thats sounds kinda harsh..... but I don't think you meant it quite that way.

...........deep breathe..............

Let me state again that my very first try at 'WTF' was 5 links, and I was going to call it "the toothpick" but I didn't like how it performed while flexing. and no I didn't take any pictures of it because it wasn't worthy. so then it went to 6 links.... then 7 links... now its back to 6 links.

If Kevin has fixed the problems mine had, THATS GREAT! but these new non-traditional designs are just that - NEW - and I believe there is a lot of improvement that can be made.

True - I'm a noobie to this RC stuff and I don't claim to be an expert here because I'm NOT! I will even say that probably 95% of the people here know more than I do when it comes to this stuff.....

I'm just curious if I had something to do with this ...... How about it Kevin, did my WTF design 'inspire' you or have you been working on this long before WTF. heres a quote from him in the WTF thread, post #30.

Originally Posted by kevinlongisland

pretty cool man! is that project "what the F***!" nice work.

I don't want this thread to go the wrong way ..... I'm not trying to bash Kevin in any way, just curious first if his has the design quirks mine had and if my WTF 'inspired him..... THATS ALL.

How about Kevin??

[Grizzly4x4]

Kevin was COMPETING with his "light stick" at the PARC Boulder Battle #1 and the results were posted on 11/21/04.

PARC Boulder Battle #1 Competition, Results and Pics

Rick, you posted pics of your first tuber on 12/10/04.

First RC Crawler is a Tuber .... pics Dec 28th *FINISHED*

Not bashin you Rick but like Dave said, Kevin has been thinking outside the box for quite a while.

[4RnrRick]

Just for clarification, is Kevins 'light stick' which he competed with what he has pictuered above soon to be for sale or something else..... I can't seem to find any pictures of it on the rocks....

[Grizzly4x4]

From my understanding, and having seen the pictures of it before they were removed from that post, the "light stick" was a first prototype of the above chassis. Kevin had the pics removed a couple days later to keep the design under wraps. .
Hopefully Kevin will be able to clear things up soon.

Originally Posted by kevinlongisland

actually, the link angle is rather steep and i have not had any problems with the links hitting. I don't think this design will benefit much from high clearance links. But it was a thought i had also.
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p.s. your top secret photos are now de-classified. thanks for keeping them secret.

[fireman]

Griz is right, Kevins prototype has been in the works for awhile. I have ran against the version 1 and it performs great. So people saying that was there design are flat full of it.

I don't know what others did different but Kevins WORKS.

[4RnrRick]

Originally Posted by fireman

Griz is right, Kevins prototype has been in the works for awhile. I have ran against the version 1 and it performs great.

If thats true, which it sounds like it is, then I'm totally cool with it...... I was just curious if I had something to do with it!!!!!! Sounds like I didn't other than maybe speeding him up to get his testing finished..... so he could start production.

Originally Posted by fireman

So people saying that was their design are flat full of it.

I wasn't saying that..... I for one can say that when I was doing mine, I seen NOTHING like it on the net, in a book or in person. so for me it was a 100% ORIGNAL IDEA to ME. Sounds like it was just two people thinking the same way...... and total Coincidence....

Thanks question has been answered.....No, I had nothing to do with inspring his design. Sorry for the contraversy. but I still think its damn funny.

Originally Posted by fireman

I don't know what others did different but Kevins WORKS.

Thats great to hear that it works.... mine also works, and my also has flaws.... but I'm still curious about my question on "if the axle wanders to the left or right when flexing." thats a problem that I had with mine when I did 5 links..... also remember that I wouldn't have post info on mine if I didn't want to show it off to other people and get comments on it to improve the design.

[SR5Dave]

How you were saying everything seemed like you were implying Kevin should give you credit for using your idea and selling it. I just wanted to clearly state that was not what happened, thats all. ;)

[Ace]

Yeah,

Besides we all know Wannabediggler had the basic concepts of these two rigs down about 8 years ago...

[Grizzly4x4]

[kevinlongisland]

Jason, that avatar is hilarious!!!


Concerning the narrowed body:
Hey jason, you just saved me a bunch of time, my address is........

Good job. Thats exactly what i plan on doing with the body. i may also do something with only a narrowed cab section, but with full width front and rears. but that will be a bit more difficult. The silhouette would work, but i think it would look weird. Although it would be the lightest setup.

Fireman, if you want to get together to work on a body and some other stuff, let me know. I have plenty of work to do in the next couple days. That goes for any of you other locals too.

Just got home from work (where I can’t use the computer). Wish I could have responded to this heated thread a little earlier:

This design was not inspired by any other vehicles or photos i had seen. 100% out of my head. Conceived of in early October. First prototyped in October of 2004. Fireman, Roktoy, and SR5Dave have all seen this truck during it's development and can attest that they actually saw a physical working prototype in early November.

I have lots and lots of time on the rocks with this design and I think it performs AWESOME! Otherwise I wouldn’t have been so excited to spend lots of money and hours and hours developing it to the stage it’s at now. I just got out some tires and placed my Extreme next to a traditional 4-link (Mach1). If the axle articulation is so different, I can’t tell. What do you guys think?









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Rick, you did a good job thinking outside the box with your WTF project. Looks like a capable crawler and I hope it works for you and you work out the bugs. Take it easy guys and have fun out on the rocks!!!!!!!!!!!
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[Highmark]

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

Ummmmm, it doesn't have suspension. It has a system to control articulation but no suspension.

Sorry, the next time I try to compliment someones work I'll be sure to send it to you for proofreading ;)

[Grizzly4x4]

Originally Posted by Highmark

Sorry, the next time I try to compliment someones work I'll be sure to send it to you for proofreading ;)

That would be best.


Sorry to clutter up your post today Kev.

[Ace]

It might be best if all posts went to Grizz for proofing, placing in right forums, addition s of prices in "for sale colums" and immediate answers to all "should I run lathe motors" and "should I use a super rooster?" posts.