Why the TCS Xtreme is so expensive.....
 

There have been a number of threads on other forums about the outrageous price of the TCS Xtreme. I wrote a very lengthy response on Clodtalk and thought i would share that information here:

First, thank you for your comments toyo, there is nothing more i respect than another vendor suggesting someone else's product and defending it. thank you.

i guess the biggest downfall of the Xtreme is that it appears that you are getting nothing. but on the contrary, this is what is included:

Xtreme Parts List:

- (1) Backbone
- (4) Axle Links
- (4) Steering Links
- (2) Upper Shock Mounts
- (2) Lower Shock Mounts
- (1) ESC Plate
- (1) Battery Plate
- (1) RX Plate
- (3) Body Mounts
- (2) Top Link Mounts (Hein Joints)
- (2) 19mm Standoffs
- (2) Servo Mounts
- (4) Aluminum Spacers (Backbone to Axle Links)

plus all the hardware....

also, the material is allot more than you think. Second, the labor required to make the parts.

lets look at the material. the backbone is made from tube that’s special ordered from out-of-state. it costs $6 per foot. the backbone is about 1 1/2 feet. that’s $9 for just the material, no machining done to it. There are 3 different sets of holes in the backbone drilled at three different angles. That takes time. The simple little lower shock standoffs that you would think cost $0.20 a piece, cost me $2.50 each!!!!!! As krod clod pointed out, heim joints are damned expensive also.

Also, because demand is high, i have had to outsource some of the parts. I have someone else make me the links now, and it's costing me more money.

krod clod, thank you for your comments. you pointed out a big part of the cost. the development. also, i have spent allot of money on small batteries to test, most of which did not work and were a waste of money. that was a direct loss of a good sum of $$. who else is testing these small packs? i offer my test results freely to the community (I’m mostly on RCC and my results are there).

As for demand, like i said above, i can't keep up right now. i have a waiting list.

I hope in the future the price will go down. Also, unlike rcguy and the gecko, which has been produced for over 9 years i believe, this is a new product and a new design. Where cell phones free when they first came out? No, they were like $1000 and the size of a small laptop computer.

"A couple of 1/4" thick pieces 2"X1" That have been tapped and mounted to the arm. $3.00 at most!"

how long do you think it takes to mill the angle, then precisely drill all three holes to the correct dimensions and depth, mill a radius in the full length on the bottom, then hand tap all those holes? About 20 minutes to make that part, maybe more because we hand tap those holes and that takes time. A machinist makes how much per hour, divide that by 3 and maybe that’s the cost of the part.

halgar, thank you too for your comments.

toyo talked about time. not including the months of initial development, for about 6 weeks surrounding the introduction, i spent all my time on this project. DAY and NIGHT to get the prototype done and the first few out. then, i continued to work to make sure everything was correct and quality controlled the first couple rigs myself. assembled each one COMPLETELY on axles with servos and everything else by myself to assure everything was correct. I still QC the trucks myself when they go out, but not to the degree just described.

As far as people rushing out to get them, I can’t keep up with demand now. Also, in the competition community, i have no doubt that once people start competing with them that the Xtreme will be the chassis to beat. i have allot of comp crawling under my belt and this truck just outperforms those other rigs by a good margin. it's a design leap and i feel confident in it's performance. Also, it was never intended to look like a real truck. And anyway, does any product today look like products made 5 or 10 years ago. What did the rock crawlers of 5 years ago look like?

Some of you talked about getting allot of material with your chassis and the stick is barely any material. well, it's dirt cheap to have a water jet guy cut out a million geckos, Inets, V3s, or CX's, even if it’s more material. Maybe $4 a plate. So that’s what, 4 plates at $4, is $16, why do they charge so much? The stick backbone is $9 in material, special order from out of state, and a good amount of a machinists time. It's easy to look at something and say it's $23 in material, and 1 hours build time, without realizing what it really costs.

I charge based on the time i spend, and the cost of the material as i have to pay for them. That means paying the guy that makes the links for me, because myself, nor the machinist working with me has the time to make them. So i pay what you would pay for a set of links, etc. Also, there is one thing you guys haven’t considered. Overhead. How much does it cost for web hosting, domain names, paypal fees, packaging and shipping supplies, etc.

Well, I’m glad I read through the entire post and am finally done. I hope i have cleared some things up and answered some questions. I don't want to offend anyone, and i assure you that i am not a greedy individual charging an extraordinary amount for something I only put $23 into. Sorry if it has to be so expensive, wish I was a large manufacturer and could pop these things out and sell them to you guys for $120. But i can’t at this point. Hopefully one day. Take it easy guys and go enjoy those rocks!

I'm just jealous that we(RCRockGear) didn't come up with the idea first :mrgreen: Plus, I know that the TCS is the future for the competive classes of crawling.

did u figure out a good way to use a regular stick pack?

I'm not complaining one single bit, I love this thing! I've slept with it twice.

Thanks again Kevin.

Cory

That's cause you love sleeping with things that have sticks :flipoff: :lol:

people just don't really understand how it works Kev, so they decide to knock on it. After a few get out and those people have made writeups on them, they will sell like hotcakes ;-) I thnk ya did a hella job at designing it. it's different ;-)

why you so worried about what people think? its your product man, charge what you feel its worth...

its not like its priced out of the range of the other crawling chassis' that are available, and while you might not get as much stuff and it might not be 'scale' lookin, you sure as hell get guaranteed wicked crawling ability. and thats what your stick is all about. (u should call it the mantis btw...) ;)

its a cool rig kev, i just saw the vids of it that were posted in your clodtalk thread. amazing.

Kevin.....the reason people are complaining is because you actually
went out and did something....you're an easy target.

It's really hard for people to critique the "imaginary" versions that
everyone claims they will/could build. Let's see some people.

Props to you Kevin for carrying through and getting your product out to the crawlers.

To everyone else....if you've got a chassis version, bring it out,
test it, produce it, sell it.....let the world critique your work.

Jay

right on roktoy I'm in the process of trying to build one and I'm starting to think about throwing the damn thing away and just buying the extreme but I cant cuz now I have to much money wrapped up in my wanna be extreme chassis

Big Props to you Kevin for your design and effort. You never claimed it to be a "scale" crawler, only what it is: a full on competition chassis.

People are cheap, they want the best stuff but if it costs more than the middle of the road stuff they complain. That is exactly why I dont advertise my chassis, I have sold a few to people who appreciate the work that goes into them and that my time is worth something.

I do not agree with you defending yourself because you should not have to. You have come up with a product that meets the needs of what it was designed for and charge a price that reflects the time and money invested to make it a production piece. If people caint afford that, or think that because they "only" get 2 shocks it should be worth less, they should just look elsewhere; as there a lots of "conventional" setups.

Many people scoff when I tell them I paid $180 each for a front axle u-joint in my 1:1 Bronc, there are lots of people in the world who understand why, and that is why CTM is still in business. They offer a product that fills the need of people who push the limits of conventional design. Just like you have Kevin.

You caint please all of the people all of the time.
Rock on!

Kevin

It takes ALOT of work to come up with a chassis design that works and allot more time to get it to where you can sale it and it cost allot of money up front to start production of a product. There is so much more involved that only some one who actually goes through the process can understand. I think your doing a great job and your concept is unique and it works keep up the great work and will see you at a comp sooner or later.


Blade

Good point, most people really have no idea how expensive it is to do what Kevin has done, which is change the face of this sport. This is cutting edge technology for us as R/C rock crawlers, and to put a price tag on it is tuff. It gets expensive really fast when you're dealing with machine shops/manufacturing procedures. I've seen one of these chassis's in person and I can tell you a lot of time and money went into it.

Need absolutely no justification as far as I see it.

Kind of like saying:

I'm not paying $500 for MicroSoft Software! All you get is a plastic CD!

I agree Kevin. There is no need for you to defend yourself. I see that people are talking left and right about it, but still there is no need to explain it to them.they just don't see what it is.

Just like " Tiny" came into the 1:1 world. everyone thought WTF is that and we seen how he did.

I give ya props for even comming up with something like this ;-)

:lol:

Very well put. Just keep in mind that these are the same people who bitched about the RockRaider when it came out, and the same people who bitched about the Bulu so naturaly they feel the need to bitch about the TCS :roll:

I loved the guy who said he could do the same thing for $23 :lol:

I am considering buying one of these chassis. The ONLY question I have...is it legal with that 70% of the body rule? Thanks for the help. I agree with everyone else.....people just dont know what all goes into supplies and making one of these. ;-)

I belive many of those individuals need to see a write up like yours Kevin, because some people just can not understand with out seeing the truck in person. I knew with out a doubt which chassis I wanted after seeing the tcs crawl at PBB4, and after hearing first hand how much goes into each chassis I wanted one that much more, then to drive the truck...brilliant.

thanks for the positive comments guys.

greddy, have not done any work yet on getting a regular sized pack on the truck. but let me tell you, i'm a firm believer in super light weight now. and i would hate to put a heavy stick pack in this thing.

badhoopy. i don't think i will write up anything like that ever again. if people bash, as they always will, then let them bash! I doubt my long post changed anyones mind for the better. Oh well.

i like the way you put it dirk.

rockcrawler, you can put any body on the truck you wish. look at the 2.2X on my website. it's a full body with fenders. that truck is the same as the xtreme, just with a couple inches cut out of the center of the backbone. you may have to trim some so the wheels don't hit the body. And just a heads up, the body on the truck does rock back and forth a little because all the body posts are in-line.

Priceless!
 

I only invest in the best and I have no doubt that the TCS is purpose built to win. I have over $1000.00 into my crawler and I just got it together. The cost of the TCS is worth every penny just as long as it does as it is intended to do.....

CRAWL TO WIN :!: