jebster's creeper

[jebster]

Originally Posted by Rolly

maybe a side hilling comp to go with it too...it would be very interesting what setup works on incline and side hilling.

agreed. side hilling is one area i haven't really worked on with my rig yet.

[jebster]

speaking of inclines and sidehilling has anyone thought about knuckle weights for the creeper? i was looking at different options to add weight and saw the following thread (Knuckle weights. Offical thread). looks like something that could provide huge advantages. if i had a mill i'd look at making a set for my creeper. damn the lack of a machine shop in the basement!!!

[jebster]

so i saw lazy's thread and it got me thinking. i don't have any other crawlers to compare to but i still feel like i'm getting too much TT. i'm looking for suggestions of things to try. when under power the right front does try to lift up. on my traction board the right front is lifts to the point it is barely touching. so help i've attached a bunch of pics of my setup. could it be that i need to raise the mounting point for my front top links on the chassis end?

[asw27x]

Originally Posted by jebster

so i saw lazy's thread and it got me thinking. i don't have any other crawlers to compare to but i still feel like i'm getting too much TT. i'm looking for suggestions of things to try. when under power the right front does try to lift up. on my traction board the right front is lifts to the point it is barely touching. so help i've attached a bunch of pics of my setup. could it be that i need to raise the mounting point for my front top links on the chassis end?

you need stiffen (loken at the front) the left front shock a little more the the right so it is trying to put more pressure on it the the other side so in theory it keeps it down
and looking at the back stiffen the left rear so it trys to shove that front corner down some
i have my front links rasised front he stck points on Adams plate mine ar close in front but high up and try to lower you rear links on the chassis

[venomcrawlerdud]

sorry asw27x but you dont want to do any thing to the stiff nest of the rear spring, (althought i would think about putting a little bit stiffer spring on the fronts) TT is all about link geo. the rear links could be sprea apart a little more and if im right from what i heard rmdw say is you dont want to raise the front upper links i think you have to lower them but you have them as low as you can get them. personaly i would talk to RMDW to find it out but thats what i would start with.

[jojo303d]

venomcrawlerdud is right its about link geo you want the front uppers as low as can be on the axel and as high as you can on the chassis. on the rear you want to be spread apart as much as you can and on the axle high up and and on the chassis low. i have very minimal TT soft springs in the rear and super soft springs in the front 25wt oil in all 4. the whole stiff spring in corner is just a bandaid fix and I think it affects the rig in in a bad way.

[jebster]

i'm curious if anyone has a short video of their rig and how much TT they have? given this is my only crawler i don't have a comparison point. i'll try to do the same later tonight.

i think my rear links are probably in pretty good shape (i can't spread them much more given the saddle pack i run on the rear axle). i was more curious about my front end. i've looked at other threads and many people have the same link placement on the uppers where they meet the chassis. this is why i'm wondering what a "touch of TT" looks like. i think i will try moving the mounts further up the chassis to see if that helps.

venomcrawlerdud, my front springs are pretty soft so i might swap them out for a little stiffer set.

[Rolly]

Originally Posted by jebster

i'm curious if anyone has a short video of their rig and how much TT they have? given this is my only crawler i don't have a comparison point. i'll try to do the same later tonight.

i think my rear links are probably in pretty good shape (i can't spread them much more given the saddle pack i run on the rear axle). i was more curious about my front end. i've looked at other threads and many people have the same link placement on the uppers where they meet the chassis. this is why i'm wondering what a "touch of TT" looks like. i think i will try moving the mounts further up the chassis to see if that helps.

venomcrawlerdud, my front springs are pretty soft so i might swap them out for a little stiffer set.

hey jebster i think your rear links are fine where they are at, what you should try is raising the chassis mounting points on your front upper links...if you figure it out let us know and good luck bro

[jojo303d]

did u look at my set up front links are high on the chassis,,,,,, a touch of tt is lets say when your going up something steep like the incline board,,,the body will slightly twist (to the left) but the front right tire will NOT come off the ground and when you flex with the left front it the right front wants to come up but not much thats minimal tt. you will never get rid of tt but you can reduce it.

[rmdesignworks]

Originally Posted by asw27x

you need stiffen (loken at the front) the left front shock a little more the the right so it is trying to put more pressure on it the the other side so in theory it keeps it down
and looking at the back stiffen the left rear so it trys to shove that front corner down some
i have my front links rasised front he stck points on Adams plate mine ar close in front but high up and try to lower you rear links on the chassis

Springs and shocks dont control Torque Twist,,I dont know how many times Ive said this in this forum...link geometry is the whole key to limiting the amount of torque roll you get from the ring and pinions.

Originally Posted by jojo303d

venomcrawlerdud is right its about link geo you want the front uppers as low as can be on the axel and as high as you can on the chassis. on the rear you want to be spread apart as much as you can and on the axle high up and and on the chassis low. i have very minimal TT soft springs in the rear and super soft springs in the front 25wt oil in all 4. the whole stiff spring in corner is just a bandaid fix and I think it affects the rig in in a bad way.

HEY,,,you were listening. Good write...and you are completely right.

Originally Posted by jebster

i'm curious if anyone has a short video of their rig and how much TT they have? given this is my only crawler i don't have a comparison point. i'll try to do the same later tonight.

i think my rear links are probably in pretty good shape (i can't spread them much more given the saddle pack i run on the rear axle). i was more curious about my front end. i've looked at other threads and many people have the same link placement on the uppers where they meet the chassis. this is why i'm wondering what a "touch of TT" looks like. i think i will try moving the mounts further up the chassis to see if that helps.

venomcrawlerdud, my front springs are pretty soft so i might swap them out for a little stiffer set.

Originally Posted by Rolly

hey jebster i think your rear links are fine where they are at, what you should try is raising the chassis mounting points on your front upper links...if you figure it out let us know and good luck bro

Jeff,,your front upper links are too low at the chassis. They need to be raised about 3/8" - 1/2" from what it looks like in the pics.

Stiffer springs will only accomplish one thing...make your rig stiffer...or looser. Like Derrek said...link geometry.

Links are just about the hardest part to tune in my book. The links have to be long enough to give good articulation but short enough to control the axles without flexing. The lower links are almost always longer and react slower than the shorter uppers,,but the uppers are the ones that are in direct influence from axle torque roll. The link geometry I run is for 100%+ anti-squat. When my rig is getting good traction my chassis rises due to torque roll from both axles transmitted through the upper links.

Right now when your front axle is under load...front wheels trying to get traction...the axle housing rotates rearward at the top,,pinion yoke downward...with your links low like they are the chassis gets pushed down which causes the axle to rise.

[jebster]

i agree and know that shocks and springs don't help TT. i did see that by front end is way to soft which is something i needed to fix already which is why i wanted to handle that with the stiffer shocks.

everyone's assessment that i need to raise the front upper chassis mounting point confirms what i thought (thomas, thanks for the more specific 3/8 - 1/2" recommendation) and i'm going to make some changes.

by the way, is there any way to post video clips via the forum or does it have to be done with links to services like youtube?

[jebster]

oh yeah, here is a pic of my rig with my son's maxstone 16 that santa brought. my creepers little brother! looking forward to upgrading it with a MVP chassis from AB Design's (thanks adam) and using the things i've learned about link geometry on this thread to improve his rig.

[rmdesignworks]

Originally Posted by jebster

everyone's assessment that i need to raise the front upper chassis mounting point confirms what i thought (thomas, thanks for the more specific 3/8 - 1/2" recommendation) and i'm going to make some changes.

by the way, is there any way to post video clips via the forum or does it have to be done with links to services like youtube?

Glad to help Jeff...you cant embed video in te Creeper forum,,only in the video forums or chitchat forum,,,here youll have to post links

[lazynocturnal]

Originally Posted by jebster

i'm curious if anyone has a short video of their rig and how much TT they have? given this is my only crawler i don't have a comparison point. i'll try to do the same later tonight.

i think my rear links are probably in pretty good shape (i can't spread them much more given the saddle pack i run on the rear axle). i was more curious about my front end. i've looked at other threads and many people have the same link placement on the uppers where they meet the chassis. this is why i'm wondering what a "touch of TT" looks like. i think i will try moving the mounts further up the chassis to see if that helps.

venomcrawlerdud, my front springs are pretty soft so i might swap them out for a little stiffer set.

i have a video in this tread that shows my tt. it from speedy's creep-o-orama thread. it shows mine tt (click on the picture and it will take you to my photobucket page...).

[SpeedyG]

Dude, honestly i'm not seeing your axle lift off the board... All I see is the body torquing to the left, which will happen in ALL shaftys - it's inherent in its design and you'll NEVER eliminate all of it...

Have you tried raising the rear upper links a bit (1/2" or so) on the chassis side? That should give you a more neutral Squat setting in the rear, which might help keep the front planted better...

I used to have all stock black springs in mine until I went brushless, then I HAD to change to stiffer springs in the rear because the body roll was Terrible! It actually helped tremendously... But I see you already have heavier springs in the rear on yours, so your solution will definately lie in your link geo...

[CREEPERBOB]

Originally Posted by jebster

oh yeah, here is a pic of my rig with my son's maxstone 16 that santa brought. My creepers little brother! looking forward to upgrading it with a mvp chassis from ab design's (thanks adam) and using the things i've learned about link geometry on this thread to improve his rig.

awsome pair

[jebster]

so i made a mod to my chassis to raise the front upper links chassis mounting point. haven't done much testing yet but i hope it helps to further reduce TT.

[jojo303d]

Originally Posted by jebster

so i made a mod to my chassis to raise the front upper links chassis mounting point. haven't done much testing yet but i hope it helps to further reduce TT.

Nice that should help good job

[SledRig]

It looks like you also mounted your rear upper links lower at the chassis. Your previous pics showed them mounted in the higher position before. That move gained me 2* on the board.

[jojo303d]

heres how high mine is on the front uppers