RCCrawler Forums

rmdesignworks · 10-04-2010, 09:02 PM

STRESS PROOF has a 25RC ,T.S.U. of 115000psi, T.S.Y. of 100000

ETD150 has a 32RC ,T.S.U. of 150000psi, T.S.Y. of 130000psi

FATIGUE PROOF has a 30RC ,T.S.U. of 140000psi, T.S.Y. of 125000psi

Stress Proof has also proven to have problems in high end side loading in Spindle applications like axles, showing a bad shear characteristic.

rmdesignworks · 10-04-2010, 09:10 PM

AISI Number Tensile Strength - psi Yield Strength - psi Elongation in 2" - % Reduction of Area - % HBN

Non-Resulphurized Carbon Steels
1018 64,000 54,000 15 40 126
1045 91,000 77,000 12 35 179

Resulphurized Carbon Steels
1117 69,000 58,000 15 40 137
1144 108,000 90,000 10 30 217

Screw Machine Steels
1215 78,000 60,000 10 35 167
12L14 78,000 60,000 10 35 163

Special Steels
Stressproof® 115,000 min 100,000 min. 8 min 25 min -
Fatigue-proof 140,000 min 125,000 min 5 min 15 min 280
e.t.d. 150 150,000 min 130,000 min 7 min 30 min 302

In the event of disagreement between hardness and tensile strength, the tensile strength shall govern.

Source: Niagara Lasalle Corporation General Catalog

rmdesignworks · 10-04-2010, 10:15 PM

The more research I do though I keep coming back to 4340 at a Rockwell of up to RC48 and 300M up to a RC55.

Im just betting the shafts done in 4340 through hardened to a decent ductility,,,maybe an RC45 or so.

viper6171 · 10-05-2010, 12:31 AM

yeah i would like to make them out of something like that but i can't afford to do the heat treating and to do it properly i would have to send it out to a shop that specializes in heat treating . and then also would have to take into consideration the metal expansion due to heat treating so it would either have to be ground to diminsion after or machined smaller to compensate for the expansion. once you start adding all of the above up plus machinist time ( cost) plus materials these axles could get very expensive rapidly . i am going to try to get him to make two sets for trial and if i get two sets then i will see about sending you a set thomas to test as well as my set to test . depending on how these do will determin if i go to a different material ( fatigue proof or etd150 ) it would be nice if we could find a material that didn't have to be heat treated after machining that would hold up to our torture .

rmdesignworks · 10-05-2010, 06:07 AM

Let me make a couple calls,,dont proceed until you hear from me,,Ill get ahold of a couple people I know. Some people know what it means to do prototyping at reduced rates to get the business later.

viper6171 · 10-06-2010, 09:46 PM

okay well the first set should be done by wed and they will be tested at there first comp on the following sat.

hey thomas you were talking before about prototyping at reduced rates so they can get the buisness later well you can't get any more reduced than free ( labor and material ) as far as the other materials that isn't an issue all i have to do is buy the material and he will make the axles out of what i bring him , but if it is something like 4140 and has to be hardened then it will be more expensive because of the fees for hardening . as far as how much the axles will be i still have to discuss that with my friend ( and remeber this his equipment isn't cnc it is hand operated ) and i will get a price based off of the material that is chosen .

viper6171 · 10-07-2010, 10:27 PM

okay who else here would like to have a solid rear axle shaft(s) for the creeper

schiesz · 10-07-2010, 11:07 PM

I would be interested in 1 or 2 depending on price.

viper6171 · 10-07-2010, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schiesz

I would be interested in 1 or 2 depending on price.

okay i will let you know once i find out

rmdesignworks · 10-07-2010, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by viper6171

okay well the first set should be done by wed and they will be tested at there first comp on the following sat.

hey thomas you were talking before about prototyping at reduced rates so they can get the buisness later well you can't get any more reduced than free ( labor and material ) as far as the other materials that isn't an issue all i have to do is buy the material and he will make the axles out of what i bring him , but if it is something like 4140 and has to be hardened then it will be more expensive because of the fees for hardening . as far as how much the axles will be i still have to discuss that with my friend ( and remeber this his equipment isn't cnc it is hand operated ) and i will get a price based off of the material that is chosen .

Well you didnt say specifically that you were getting Proto done for free. I understand the extra cost of hardeneing but the individual/company doing it should be able to give a bulk rate as opposed to doin one or two sets. If you can get 10 sets done for cost of one then it works out in the end. Quench and Temper should be done pretty easily on such a small shaft and should also be able to be done multiple units at once. If you have a cost of $75-$100 to get ten sets done then pass that on to the customer in the $15 range. i wouldnt be opposed to paying $40-$50 for a decent set of rears that I dont have to worry about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by viper6171

i am gonna ask this here who is wanting a set of these axles if they pan out the way i hope they will ?

You Im down for more than one set.

viper6171 · 10-07-2010, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmdesignworks

Well you didnt say specifically that you were getting Proto done for free. I understand the extra cost of hardeneing but the individual/company doing it should be able to give a bulk rate as opposed to doin one or two sets. If you can get 10 sets done for cost of one then it works out in the end. Quench and Temper should be done pretty easily on such a small shaft and should also be able to be done multiple units at once. If you have a cost of $75-$100 to get ten sets done then pass that on to the customer in the $15 range. i wouldnt be opposed to paying $40-$50 for a decent set of rears that I dont have to worry about.

You Im down for more than one set.

yeah i am sure that it would be about the same rate for 10 to 40 sets. personally i am hoping that the stressproof will hold up to the abuse .

schiesz · 10-08-2010, 12:07 AM

Viper, I am local too so if you need help bashing on a set let me know. I won't be hard on my girl's rig, but I have another Creeper coming now that I can play rough with and not worry too much about.

perfictsib · 10-08-2010, 01:30 AM

i dont realy need to tell you i would be intrested in a set or two do i.

Abavuso · 10-08-2010, 07:08 AM

Ill definantly take a set, heck ill even pay before they are done to offset your investment.

viper6171 · 10-08-2010, 09:49 PM

i appreciate the responses guys hopefully i will have the first set by wed , maybe two sets ? if i am lucky and if i get two sets i will most likely pick one of the creeper crew to see what they think and if we need a different material , after i find out if the proof set(s) will hold up to the abuse i will contact you all with further details .

Mikejordan23 · 10-09-2010, 01:53 PM

I would be interested in a set depending on cost. Although $40-50 isn't bad compared to the cost of a good axle that you can install and forget it.

Kentuckcrawlers · 10-09-2010, 02:59 PM

how do you do the test of the balance..never knew people done the test on crawlers..i got a venom creeper with the 4vp chassis and servo plate im running a dig unit and hb rovers (blue)...climbs good but i like the vertical challenges as well and mine does ok but not as good as i want it to..does the traxxas shocks and losi springs help???

Abavuso · 10-09-2010, 04:11 PM

What is your rig doing on the virt? Its lack of traction, try whites or pinks. If its your right front wheel lifting, spread and raise your rear upper links on the axle more, also mount everything as low on the chassis as you can and add weight to the front so you dont flip. For example if you strap a nimh pack to your rear axle your gona flip because your rear bites way more than your front.

As for springs, those are to help regulate artuculation, soft = more articulation and genteler responce, hard, less articulation ad more of a quick and bouncy responce.

viper6171 · 10-09-2010, 06:35 PM

well to answer your question i havn't had the chance to test my creepers current setup as i broke my axle stubs in the rear , hope to do some testing by next weekend when i have the prototypes for the solid rear axles ( no cv joint , still a left and right axle ) . i do notice that my rig has a stable controlled response with the new shocks and springs ( may change out the pistons to ones with bigger holes though ) they seem a little slow right now .

rmdesignworks · 10-10-2010, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kentuckcrawlers

how do you do the test of the balance..never knew people done the test on crawlers..i got a venom creeper with the 4vp chassis and servo plate im running a dig unit and hb rovers (blue)...climbs good but i like the vertical challenges as well and mine does ok but not as good as i want it to..does the traxxas shocks and losi springs help???

kc,,your balance point should be right at the front edge of the tranny skid plate. Weight the front until it will just begin to get tippy forward when you balance it on your finger at the front edge.

10-07-2010, 10:27 PM	#87
viper6171 RCC Addict Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: pullin somebody else out of a mud hole Posts: 1,759	okay who else here would like to have a solid rear axle shaft(s) for the creeper Last edited by viper6171; 10-08-2010 at 12:05 AM.

10-04-2010, 09:02 PM	#81
rmdesignworks I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: ...the burning end of the rope. Posts: 5,013	STRESS PROOF has a 25RC ,T.S.U. of 115000psi, T.S.Y. of 100000 ETD150 has a 32RC ,T.S.U. of 150000psi, T.S.Y. of 130000psi FATIGUE PROOF has a 30RC ,T.S.U. of 140000psi, T.S.Y. of 125000psi Stress Proof has also proven to have problems in high end side loading in Spindle applications like axles, showing a bad shear characteristic.

10-04-2010, 09:10 PM	#82
rmdesignworks I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: ...the burning end of the rope. Posts: 5,013	AISI Number Tensile Strength - psi Yield Strength - psi Elongation in 2" - % Reduction of Area - % HBN Non-Resulphurized Carbon Steels 1018 64,000 54,000 15 40 126 1045 91,000 77,000 12 35 179 Resulphurized Carbon Steels 1117 69,000 58,000 15 40 137 1144 108,000 90,000 10 30 217 Screw Machine Steels 1215 78,000 60,000 10 35 167 12L14 78,000 60,000 10 35 163 Special Steels Stressproof® 115,000 min 100,000 min. 8 min 25 min - Fatigue-proof 140,000 min 125,000 min 5 min 15 min 280 e.t.d. 150 150,000 min 130,000 min 7 min 30 min 302 In the event of disagreement between hardness and tensile strength, the tensile strength shall govern. Source: Niagara Lasalle Corporation General Catalog

10-04-2010, 10:15 PM	#83
rmdesignworks I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: ...the burning end of the rope. Posts: 5,013	The more research I do though I keep coming back to 4340 at a Rockwell of up to RC48 and 300M up to a RC55. Im just betting the shafts done in 4340 through hardened to a decent ductility,,,maybe an RC45 or so.

10-05-2010, 12:31 AM	#84
viper6171 RCC Addict Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: pullin somebody else out of a mud hole Posts: 1,759	yeah i would like to make them out of something like that but i can't afford to do the heat treating and to do it properly i would have to send it out to a shop that specializes in heat treating . and then also would have to take into consideration the metal expansion due to heat treating so it would either have to be ground to diminsion after or machined smaller to compensate for the expansion. once you start adding all of the above up plus machinist time ( cost) plus materials these axles could get very expensive rapidly . i am going to try to get him to make two sets for trial and if i get two sets then i will see about sending you a set thomas to test as well as my set to test . depending on how these do will determin if i go to a different material ( fatigue proof or etd150 ) it would be nice if we could find a material that didn't have to be heat treated after machining that would hold up to our torture .

10-05-2010, 06:07 AM	#85
rmdesignworks I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: ...the burning end of the rope. Posts: 5,013	Let me make a couple calls,,dont proceed until you hear from me,,Ill get ahold of a couple people I know. Some people know what it means to do prototyping at reduced rates to get the business later.

10-06-2010, 09:46 PM	#86
viper6171 RCC Addict Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: pullin somebody else out of a mud hole Posts: 1,759	okay well the first set should be done by wed and they will be tested at there first comp on the following sat. hey thomas you were talking before about prototyping at reduced rates so they can get the buisness later well you can't get any more reduced than free ( labor and material ) as far as the other materials that isn't an issue all i have to do is buy the material and he will make the axles out of what i bring him , but if it is something like 4140 and has to be hardened then it will be more expensive because of the fees for hardening . as far as how much the axles will be i still have to discuss that with my friend ( and remeber this his equipment isn't cnc it is hand operated ) and i will get a price based off of the material that is chosen .

10-07-2010, 11:07 PM	#88
schiesz Pebble Pounder Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Lees Summit Posts: 190	I would be interested in 1 or 2 depending on price.

10-08-2010, 12:07 AM	#92
schiesz Pebble Pounder Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Lees Summit Posts: 190	Viper, I am local too so if you need help bashing on a set let me know. I won't be hard on my girl's rig, but I have another Creeper coming now that I can play rough with and not worry too much about.

10-08-2010, 01:30 AM	#93
perfictsib Quarry Creeper Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: uk s,wales blackwood Posts: 449	i dont realy need to tell you i would be intrested in a set or two do i.

10-08-2010, 07:08 AM	#94
Abavuso RCC Addict Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Colorado Springs, Co Posts: 1,441	Ill definantly take a set, heck ill even pay before they are done to offset your investment.

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10-08-2010, 09:49 PM	#95
viper6171 RCC Addict Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: pullin somebody else out of a mud hole Posts: 1,759	i appreciate the responses guys hopefully i will have the first set by wed , maybe two sets ? if i am lucky and if i get two sets i will most likely pick one of the creeper crew to see what they think and if we need a different material , after i find out if the proof set(s) will hold up to the abuse i will contact you all with further details .

10-09-2010, 01:53 PM	#96
Mikejordan23 Newbie Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Louisville Posts: 13	I would be interested in a set depending on cost. Although $40-50 isn't bad compared to the cost of a good axle that you can install and forget it.

10-09-2010, 02:59 PM	#97
Kentuckcrawlers Rock Stacker Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Lancaster Posts: 94	how do you do the test of the balance..never knew people done the test on crawlers..i got a venom creeper with the 4vp chassis and servo plate im running a dig unit and hb rovers (blue)...climbs good but i like the vertical challenges as well and mine does ok but not as good as i want it to..does the traxxas shocks and losi springs help???

10-09-2010, 04:11 PM	#98
Abavuso RCC Addict Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Colorado Springs, Co Posts: 1,441	What is your rig doing on the virt? Its lack of traction, try whites or pinks. If its your right front wheel lifting, spread and raise your rear upper links on the axle more, also mount everything as low on the chassis as you can and add weight to the front so you dont flip. For example if you strap a nimh pack to your rear axle your gona flip because your rear bites way more than your front. As for springs, those are to help regulate artuculation, soft = more articulation and genteler responce, hard, less articulation ad more of a quick and bouncy responce.

10-09-2010, 06:35 PM	#99
viper6171 RCC Addict Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: pullin somebody else out of a mud hole Posts: 1,759	well to answer your question i havn't had the chance to test my creepers current setup as i broke my axle stubs in the rear , hope to do some testing by next weekend when i have the prototypes for the solid rear axles ( no cv joint , still a left and right axle ) . i do notice that my rig has a stable controlled response with the new shocks and springs ( may change out the pistons to ones with bigger holes though ) they seem a little slow right now .

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