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01-19-2016, 01:41 PM | #61 | |
Custom Carbon Fiber Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Connecticut :(
Posts: 4,501
| Re: 2016-2017 rules and new ideas discussion Quote:
ahhh gotcha ....... local clubs should always be able to do what is in the best interest of their club. they want to let the pros run then so be it. but we need the governing organization to bring the rules for a class though. and not even be a new class ...... just a lateral move that expands a current class to another option. rules that make sense for the spirit and benefit of the sport though. | |
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01-19-2016, 01:59 PM | #62 |
RCC Addict Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Surrey,BC- Canada
Posts: 1,663
| Re: 2016-2017 rules and new ideas discussion
I'm starting to wonder if Mr.Holmes even reads this thread. I have asked twice now and sent a email to him on how to go about holding a qualifier. We have the Warcrc guys the Calgary crew plus our club, which should give us about 21 guys maybe more. Starting to get alittle |
01-19-2016, 03:13 PM | #63 | |
Rock Crawler Join Date: May 2009 Location: Calgary
Posts: 911
| Re: 2016-2017 rules and new ideas discussion Quote:
JRH - Where are you at? Is RCORVA working? It seems like less and less comps are posted there... | |
01-19-2016, 03:45 PM | #64 |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: here
Posts: 3,042
| Re: 2016-2017 rules and new ideas discussion
IMO we don't tell pro driver's they can't run in the 2.2s class, just have the judge mark driver's as 2.2s novice or 2.2s pro driver depending on rig specs. Really simple novice compete against novice drivers, pro against pro. (As already mentioned) Last edited by tapped-out; 01-19-2016 at 04:00 PM. |
01-19-2016, 07:39 PM | #65 |
RCC Addict Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: British Columbia
Posts: 1,487
| Re: 2016-2017 rules and new ideas discussion
I don't think you can rank a driver by his/her rig specs. Drivers have to be ranked by comp placings and we already have a procedure for that...RCORVA. Unfortunately, not all drivers have bothered to sign up or even have their events published. IMO, every event should be listed on RCORVA and every driver that attends a comp should be registered. Ranking becomes very easy if that method was followed. We have the tool, let's use it. Caveat: JRH needs to work a bit more on the site for the tool to function seamlessly. |
01-19-2016, 08:13 PM | #66 |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: here
Posts: 3,042
| Re: 2016-2017 rules and new ideas discussion Agreed, I almost removed the part about rig specs. My point is if a person doesn't feel comfortable competing aginst a "PRO" because they are a newbie or rig is closer to a "stock class" they can tell the judge I'm a novice driver... Obviously a guy like myself wouldn't drive in novice class because my rig IMO is modified and I'm comfortable driving against other "PRO" drivers. Remember we all drive our rigs for fun and being told I can't drive in 2.2s class kills the fun.. Just my 2cents. Last edited by tapped-out; 01-19-2016 at 08:35 PM. |
01-19-2016, 08:39 PM | #67 |
Custom Carbon Fiber Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Connecticut :(
Posts: 4,501
| Re: 2016-2017 rules and new ideas discussion
Again I ask is there a committee? Seems like it could help in alleviate some work and put more into advertising events, having more input into rules and organizing, handle multiple input from different regions better. Ill throw this out there as I have mentioned in other threads towards the 2.2S class. Even going back to the creation of the class. The spirit back then (seemed it) was it could attract guys who didnt want to run against moa's or switch. Drivers could pull those trucks or even axles out of the closet and come comp again with out feeling the pressure of seasoned drivers. The rules were written pretty straight forward as I remember that defined what made a shafty truck. Cant think there was a way even back then for the moa axles to sneak in from gray definitions. Even veterans could build trucks using old axles and compete. Talk was it could give new people a chance at winning and getting better. I said it then and its been mentioned again by a valued member .... Pro drivers should be excluded from such a class. Back then Austin was on top and I mentioned you put someone like him in that class and hes gonna walk it like a pro course. How is a new driver suppose to look at the class and think he stands a chance. Back in the closet it gos. Innovation took its way like it always does and we have some incredible trucks, trucks that could give the best moa a run for its money. Thats good - its gonna happen and we dont want to hamper it. But on the flip it also turned the class into a money pit for new guys. So now they have that intimidation of even trying the class out. We can help that now and turn things with out even creating a new class. It could be just an extension of an existing but the rules need to be well written and left alone or the class wont stand a chance. Heres my gut idea ..... Chassis materials - they need to be limited. You can use all your aftermarket chassis' but keep the rules to stock or G10 only. You just cut a chassis expense in half for a new person. AND they can still get the popular proven ones just at half the cost. No CF - No 3D printed stuff ... its either stock with their kits or G10 replacements. Best part is if they want to jump sideways and run with the seasoned guys they can still run that chassis or upgrade then to CF for bling. Material is not gonna make a bad driver good - we all know this. Limit voltage - 3S max for the class. Theres no reason to run 4S in a beginners class and with the current 3S's out there they will have plenty of wheel speeds. Tires - Keep the pins out, any brand just no pins. Theres plenty of lug tires out that have proven they work great. Take the thought of spending 90$ on tires and having to cut and shut them out. Easier to swallow 50$ in rovers or sedonas and know they work. Bring the old body rules back. IMO the body changes were fine for 2.2M class but should have been left alone for the 2.2S class. Comp crawling is not about looking scale and honestly seeing a rig with the hood cut off at the windshield just doesnt look appealing. Chassis measurements have a minimum and the body should be left seperate. Big help could be a minimum weight ..... put it at 5#'s. We use to drive 6+ rigs back in the day and its been shown lighter then air doesnt always win. Who cares where they stack the weight/bias .... put a fish hook up and every truck has to weight no less then 5#'s. Take the mentality out that they need all this light weight stuff. None of this puts any restriction on innovation or guys thinking outside the box. All doors are still open to move up to the class with the more seasoned drivers either using existing equipment or improving it. How about an approval rule - lets say someone comes out with a new axle thats the best ever made. How about a rule that ok's all current axles and says if a new one comes out after a season starts then it cant be used until the following season? Keep drivers from thinking they need to rush out and spend money just to have the latest and greatest thing. Again keep their cost down. I race SK and they have approved list of things you can use, you even have to submit your chassis for approval prior to a season date. Anything after that is locked out until the following year. I have to wait a year to submit mine but it gives me time to R&D it and be sure its good before producing them. We could lock this class into anything produced prior to class creation, all product made is already granted its approval. Then set some dates and things like chassis' ... axles .... transmissions would have to be submitted. Its not to restrict anyone ...... it would only be for the novice/sportsman level of the 2.2S class. Keep drivers hands on their tools to tune and radios to drive instead of in their wallets thinking gizmoA is gonna make them win. And yes restrict drivers from the class ...... you win any worlds or qualifier style comp then its a no go for you. You win one in this class then your name is added for the following year. Like I said before though clubs can do what they want. the rules should only be used to structure classes and not to tell clubs how to operate. Come Qualifiers and Worlds though it would fall into place. My heart is always in getting new blood and Im never one for creating a new class so everyone has a chance at winning. I started the shafty class locally years ago for our club and we saw a bunch of new people. We even gained pro drivers from it. Mission accomplished and I truly believe we need to look at using the 2.2S class as that. With some tweaking and real rules it can be done. With this extension of the class plus some real promoting and orginazation of comp crawling things could really turn back around to where they were in 2011/2012 and have even better results. Sorry for the soap box ...... |
01-19-2016, 08:58 PM | #68 | |
RCC Addict Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: British Columbia
Posts: 1,487
| Re: 2016-2017 rules and new ideas discussion Quote:
Then the ranking comes into play. I see that as completely doable as long as everyone gets onboard. | |
01-19-2016, 09:13 PM | #69 | |
RCC Addict Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: British Columbia
Posts: 1,487
| Re: 2016-2017 rules and new ideas discussion Quote:
Back in the day when there were regional representatives I think there was a lot more cohesiveness. I'm not a fan of gathering a handful of drivers together during a World's event and hashing out rules for the next season. Sometimes these things need some discussion and I'm sure most would like to take back ideas and present them to their respective clubs before finalizing. But, that's just one man's opinion. | |
01-19-2016, 09:37 PM | #70 |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: here
Posts: 3,042
| Re: 2016-2017 rules and new ideas discussion
I'm sure it's been said new drivers are created by local clubs promoting a Run What You Brung class. Drivers could drive any type of rig from ax10, wraith, scx10, rs10 or other Crawler related rigs in this RWYB class. IMO new driver's don't want rules to see if they like the comp style of crawling so changing rules/2.2s class we have now won't bring new drivers just might chase off the ones we have left... Last edited by tapped-out; 01-19-2016 at 09:45 PM. |
01-19-2016, 09:42 PM | #71 |
owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down!
Posts: 20,290
| Re: 2016-2017 rules and new ideas discussion
I'm still watching. The committee is being revisited and I would like to form one before spring. Not for rules so much, but for general event organizing and cohesive seasons. In all honesty the rules aren't really the most important parts, it's just reliably hosting events that are fun and organized.
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01-20-2016, 08:56 AM | #72 |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: here
Posts: 3,042
| Re: 2016-2017 rules and new ideas discussion
Just thinking out loud... Scale comps, have 3 different classes that seems to have as many rules/specs as usrcca comp rules/specs. Building a capable scale rig can cost as much as a 2.2 comp rig.. (I haven't done the math) however scale comps are the best thing since butter (from what I see & hear) and continue to grow. Because of low numbers @ usrcca comps guys think our system is broken I don't belive our low numbers are because our System is broken. Like others have said lack of promotion maybe? (IDK) Grow your local clubs however possible RWYB class, stock class or ? Changing what we have in place now @ USRCCA level will not grow our hobby IMO. Want to build a c3 by sorcca rules! Last edited by tapped-out; 01-20-2016 at 10:00 AM. |
01-20-2016, 10:13 AM | #73 | |||||
RCC Addict Join Date: May 2012 Location: Folsom
Posts: 1,867
| Re: 2016-2017 rules and new ideas discussion Quote:
This is the spirit of My RWYB class. Cars all run the same course and the separation of class is done horizontally. Quote:
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01-20-2016, 11:07 AM | #74 | |
RCC Addict Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Surrey,BC- Canada
Posts: 1,663
| Re: 2016-2017 rules and new ideas discussion Quote:
If your watching WHY no answer to my question about qualifier's? We tried to hold one last year, but you said we waited to late to do so, So this year were trying to get a early start on it. But were not getting any info back from you on this. One other question- Do you know where worlds is going to be this year so people can start there planning? IMO people need as much time as possible to be able to attend, As most people have a job, wife and kids. Not that easy to just pick up and go. The more info and time people have to get things sorted out, the more people that will attend. Tapped-out your so right, to build a nice scale rig will cost you the same as a MOA rig, I have built both and there is just as much to spend in scale as there is for a comp crawler. Last edited by chevotafun; 01-21-2016 at 01:26 PM. | |
01-20-2016, 08:18 PM | #75 | |
RCC Addict Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: British Columbia
Posts: 1,487
| Re: 2016-2017 rules and new ideas discussion Quote:
I don't think our system is broken, either. A touch fragmented, maybe. | |
01-20-2016, 09:35 PM | #76 | |
RCC Addict Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,559
| Re: 2016-2017 rules and new ideas discussion Quote:
Here's my input as a hard core scale guy who's started to dabble in the comp side. As for cost my top of the line scaler ran me $1200+ in parts. I've priced out a MOA crawler and from my count it would only cost me around $900 to build. We constantly have new guys coming out to scale comps with new or fairly new box stock trucks. Guys seem to really enjoy coming out and running. Biggest complaints are that they don't get to drive their truck enough and that the comps are too far away. As a club we also try and host a few team trail runs to allow people to drive their trucks more. As for comps being too far away, there isn't much you can do about that. Another thing I've noticed is that with Facebook you have a lot of groups and a few guys in that group will get together and just go out and drive on a whim. A lot of people this day and age don't plan out what they're doing until the day of. I think comp crawling is a ton of fun. I think the biggest thing going against it are lack of RTR or even kit versions of trucks. | |
01-21-2016, 01:22 PM | #77 |
RCC Addict Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Surrey,BC- Canada
Posts: 1,663
| Re: 2016-2017 rules and new ideas discussion
I think your $900 is a bit light, But I guess it depends what kinda of parts your putting on. I have around $2000 into mine and over $1200 into my sportsman. But yes you could get a used MOA for $600 and up. Solitaire is right, you can walk into just about any LHS and buy a scale truck right off the self and go comp with it, you can not do that with a MOA anymore. Look when axial brought out the XR10 the comp crawler side took off. We need that again to breath some new life into the crawler side of thing. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm still no answer from Mr Holmes about a qualifier. Last edited by chevotafun; 01-21-2016 at 02:19 PM. |
01-21-2016, 01:44 PM | #78 | |
Quarry Creeper Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Western Wa. Mose Capital of the World
Posts: 275
| Re: 2016-2017 rules and new ideas discussion Quote:
I agree 100% with your comments Chris, Not knocking anything or anyone take a look at our clubs website. Most of the info is 1-2 yrs old. I posted a flyer to our website at the local hobby shop at owner's request. But info is so outdated IE: for the local comp's and scale event's calendars that people could not find info on how or ware to attend our local events. Looking forward to this years Comp's Last edited by Tom G; 01-21-2016 at 09:48 PM. | |
01-21-2016, 01:59 PM | #79 | |
RCC Addict Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,559
| Re: 2016-2017 rules and new ideas discussion Quote:
I may or may not have forgot to include chassis I've been looking at some of the used MOAs but none of them really had the electronics that I wanted so I've passed on all of them. | |
01-22-2016, 05:39 AM | #80 | ||
DravTech Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Sweden
Posts: 643
| Re: 2016-2017 rules and new ideas discussion Quote:
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If a "RTR" rather cheap moa package would be put together I can sponsor such packages with SuDu Pro's for $75 instead of using a delrin chassis Cheaper and "weaker" motors also put less strain on the gears so perhaps the MT gears will be fine then. Last edited by Dravpnir; 01-22-2016 at 05:43 AM. | ||
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