Gate bypass rule needs to be changed!!!

[rockbound]

Another rule that needs looked at is the stupid rule that once you go through a gate your are aloud to back up back through it and go around it..

How in the world is this even remotely being aloud in these comps. That is totally bypassing a gate and going off course. The gates are set up to be driven though in sequence. When you back up through one and go around it, that is not driving through the sequence of gates i don't care if you progressed through it or not. You cant go around a gate back through it and then pull through it.. Thats the same thing!

I became aware of this rule last weekend at the ecc event. To my own fault no one else's this isn't directed to anyone or me bad mouthing or bashing anyone. If i offended anyone at the comp i apologize i just couldn't believe that this was an actual rule. I come from 1:1 rock crawling and this is not the way the rules are there.

I now am aware of the rule, and will use the rule in the future if it isn't changed, but it should be changed, it is absolutely ridiculous!

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by rockbound

I now am aware of the rule, and will use the rule in the future if it isn't changed, but it should be changed, it is absolutely ridiculous!

I am not taking issue with your opinion either way, but I would just say thats a very estabished rule in RC rockcrawling that has been around for as long as I can remember. I have been going to comps all over the country for 4 years, and thats the way every club has called it.

I don't think you will have much luck in getting that changed, but contact your Rules Committee rep about getting it voted on for 2009

[Rockcrawler]

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

I am not taking issue with your opinion either way, but I would just say thats a very estabished rule in RC rockcrawling that has been around for as long as I can remember. I have been going to comps all over the country for 4 years, and thats the way every club has called it.

I don't think you will have much luck in getting that changed, but contact your Rules Committee rep about getting it voted on for 2009

True Fish. That could have been fixed with gates if everyone was that worried about it.

[Grizzly4x4]

What if someone rolls down a hill past 3 or 4 gates they already cleared.
The problem as I see it is that if you force people to always drive between the gate markers then you have to redo all those gates you already cleared. This wastes time for the competitor and makes them risk unnecessary penalties for gates they already cleared.

If you drive through a gate and clear it then back out of it and go around, you are still clearing the gates in order and if there are no boundary markers there is no reason you can't drive around it. That is something course builders need to think about. I know that sometimes I purposely leave options like that open when I design a course. Especially when I think an obstacle may be too hard for most of the competitors. Also, sometimes people think of stuff that I didn't think of.

Propose a solution and maybe some discussion might get us somewhere.

[rockbound]

It just isn't even logical. it makes no sense at all.

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by Rockcrawler

True Fish. That could have been fixed with gates if everyone was that worried about it.

or a boundry line

[JohnRobHolmes]

Originally Posted by rockbound

It just isn't even logical. it makes no sense at all.

Give some reasons why please.

I agree with the statement Griz posted, I had the same written up but he beat me to it. What if somebody rolls down the hill? Force them to crawl the course again or allow him to take any line that he can find to get back up the hill (while avoiding gates and boundry markers)?

[TwistedCreations]

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

or a boundry line

Exactly.. That action on course 1, gate 1, only falls back on course designer..A boundary marker would have solved the problem

[rockbound]

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

What if someone rolls down a hill past 3 or 4 gates they already cleared.
The problem as I see it is that if you force people to always drive between the gate markers then you have to redo all those gates you already cleared. This wastes time for the competitor and makes them risk unnecessary penalties for gates they already cleared.

come on, how often does that happen? But if it does then yes they should have to clear all the gates again, or maybe the course shouldn't be designed so if someone rolls they pass 3-4 gates. that to me is bad course design.

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

If you drive through a gate and clear it then back out of it and go around, you are still clearing the gates in order and if there are no boundary markers there is no reason you can't drive around it. That is something course builders need to think about. I know that sometimes I purposely leave options like that open when I design a course. Especially when I think an obstacle may be too hard for most of the competitors. Also, sometimes people think of stuff that I didn't think of.

Propose a solution and maybe some discussion might get us somewhere.

yes you are clearing the gates in order but you are not following the route of the course. if you think the obstacle is too hard then everyone is going to go around it anyway so why even have the gate in the first place?

so explain how this differs from driving past the gate backing through it and then driving through correctly. your still completing the gates in order, as you state is all that matters.

[JohnRobHolmes]

Originally Posted by rockbound

come on, how often does that happen? But if it does then yes they should have to clear all the gates again, or maybe the course shouldn't be designed so if someone rolls they pass 3-4 gates. that to me is bad course design.

It happens quite often around here. Our favorite spot is on a 100ft tall rock with a nice slant. You roll 20 ft' up the hill and you will probably roll all the way down. It isn't course design, it is terrain! Even if you have a 3ft high rock, you can place 5 gates around it. Fall off the rock, and you would be back 5 gates. It just isn't possible to always build a course where a roll would never put you further than one gate back, some locations are not flat. It would be easier to build a course that a 2.2 couldn't get through

[rockbound]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

Give some reasons why please.

I agree with the statement Griz posted, I had the same written up but he beat me to it. What if somebody rolls down the hill? Force them to crawl the course again or allow him to take any line that he can find to get back up the hill (while avoiding gates and boundry markers)?

because it is bypassing a gate. the gates are set up to be driven through not around, wether you progressed pass it or not, you should not be aloud to drive around a gate.

Ok, for example not to bash the ecc event but this is where this all stems from and i am not bashing just using as an example. so the first course far left where everyone was doing this. why even have that gate? why even try to make the turn and go up the rock? it makes no sense.... we will put this gate here so everyone just backs back through it and goes around. well thats is really easy gate. may as well put it on the rock and just drive straight up the rock.

all it does is screw however doesn't read that deep into the rules and helps someone that wants to find all the cheats around the rules.

so basically this rule is to shaft people once and then they abuse it like everyone else.

[dezfan]

Originally Posted by rockbound

because it is bypassing a gate. the gates are set up to be driven through not around, wether you progressed pass it or not, you should not be aloud to drive around a gate.

Ok, for example not to bash the ecc event but this is where this all stems from and i am not bashing just using as an example. so the first course far left where everyone was doing this. why even have that gate? why even try to make the turn and go up the rock? it makes no sense.... we will put this gate here so everyone just backs back through it and goes around. well thats is really easy gate. may as well put it on the rock and just drive straight up the rock.

all it does is screw however doesn't read that deep into the rules and helps someone that wants to find all the cheats around the rules.

so basically this rule is to shaft people once and then they abuse it like everyone else.

Easy enough. At your local comps, see if the majority agree w/ your POV, if they do, don't allow it.

[Grizzly4x4]

Originally Posted by rockbound

because it is bypassing a gate. the gates are set up to be driven through not around, wether you progressed pass it or not, you should not be aloud to drive around a gate.

Ok, for example not to bash the ecc event but this is where this all stems from and i am not bashing just using as an example. so the first course far left where everyone was doing this. why even have that gate? why even try to make the turn and go up the rock? it makes no sense.... we will put this gate here so everyone just backs back through it and goes around. well thats is really easy gate. may as well put it on the rock and just drive straight up the rock.

all it does is screw however doesn't read that deep into the rules and helps someone that wants to find all the cheats around the rules.

so basically this rule is to shaft people once and then they abuse it like everyone else.

Ever since this has started people have been looking for ways to finish a course as easy and quickly as possible. People always find lines that the course design didn't think of. That's the nature of competition.

In the super class my WB is too short for alot of the ledges. The first thing I look for is ways to get around on the course that the designer didn't think of.

Many of the places we have comps require us to put multiple gates up a steep rock face, just like John said. We don't have unlimited room to set up courses and we try to use the same obstacles in different ways.

[rockbound]

just for the record, i am not upset about what happened at ecc that is not at all why i started this thread.

it was my fault for not knowing the rules. even if i knew of this rule it would not have effected my outcome or positioning of that event. I had a blast and would happily drive 12 hours back again to compete and see everyone again. I will be the first to admit that i was out of my league and need to step up my game this was my first big event outside of PA. I just think this rule is ridiculous.

[BrandonW]

i agree with rockbound that this rule should be addressed. how about this:

"once a gate has been cleared you can not go through it in the unintended direction of the course."

this would prevent people from reversing through it to skip harder areas of the course and if they fall down a cliff they can still go back through the gate in the intended direction of the course to get back to where they were.

[rockbound]

Originally Posted by noob_superman

i agree with rockbound that this rule should be addressed. how about this:

"once a gate has been cleared you can not go through it in the unintended direction of the course."

this would prevent people from reversing through it to skip harder areas of the course and if they fall down a cliff they can still go back through the gate in the intended direction of the course to get back to where they were.

this is a very good alternative and point. People are using this to avoid part of the course not save time.

If you roll down the hill then you can drive back up and around the gates cleared, Change the rule to state you can not back though a cleared gate. you can go through the gate, snake to the left or right, and back up around the gate but not through it. then you will not be bypassing the gate.

[BOWTIE]

Originally Posted by rockbound

come on, how often does that happen? But if it does then yes they should have to clear all the gates again, or maybe the course shouldn't be designed so if someone rolls they pass 3-4 gates. that to me is bad course design.

it happens quite often with our group. once the gate is cleared and you roll to a spot to where you have to get past it again you don't have to go through the gate just anyway you need to clear the next gate.

[Tanis]

Originally Posted by noob_superman

i agree with rockbound that this rule should be addressed. how about this:

"once a gate has been cleared you can not go through it in the unintended direction of the course."

this would prevent people from reversing through it to skip harder areas of the course and if they fall down a cliff they can still go back through the gate in the intended direction of the course to get back to where they were.

Problem with that is, what if someone tumbles down the hill, inbetween 1 or more gates, but doesn't touch them.....

[rockbound]

Originally Posted by Tanis

Problem with that is, what if someone tumbles down the hill, inbetween 1 or more gates, but doesn't touch them.....

why is that a problem? if they tumble down the course, then they can bypass the gates cleared. they are not purposely backing through the gate to avoid part of the course they are tumbling uncontrolled.

[666]

Hi, I have a GOLD star and I really do not understand the problem with it. This r/c crawling thing is getting ridiculous in my opinion, there needs to be a rule for every frickin thing, and then someone finds something wrong and creates another rule.