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Old 03-06-2009, 04:53 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by hbj069 View Post
How are these grey areas gonna be handled and who is the deciding factor? I have seen people clear gates 3 ft off the ground by jumping them and was rulled progress. I have seen guys back thru gates with the front tires spinning forward as the truck went down the hill backwards. Who can we depend on to do the right thing??
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IMO the rules are pretty clear considering the millions of combinations and situations that can possibly occur. Its no different than the way laws are written, and sometimes a Judge needs to interpret them and make a decision.

As far as KISS all or nothing approach it would make for some BORING competitions. If a drive had to put ALL 4 tires between the gates a lot of driver would be stuck on that gate. The current rules allow different skill sets of drivers to progress through the course with different degrees of penelties.

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Old 03-06-2009, 05:40 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Fishmaxx View Post
The Rule Committe

Find them here > http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/showgroups.php

IMO the rules are pretty clear considering the millions of combinations and situations that can possibly occur. Its no different than the way laws are written, and sometimes a Judge needs to interpret them and make a decision.

As far as KISS all or nothing approach it would make for some BORING competitions. If a drive had to put ALL 4 tires between the gates a lot of driver would be stuck on that gate. The current rules allow different skill sets of drivers to progress through the course with different degrees of penelties.
Did not say that all 4 tires had to be between the gates to continue on just to get the progress point.So you could still take the gate and go just no progress.
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Old 03-06-2009, 05:50 PM   #23
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Gotcha
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Old 03-06-2009, 06:06 PM   #24
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Some good discussion here!

You guys pretty much summed it up exactly like I felt the ruling should have been but here is the actual result from the examples

Example #1 = Gate penalty

Example #2 = Gate penalty

Example #3 = NO gate penalty

Both runs were in the same competition the same day but two different judges.

The first one is defiantly no penalty. According to rule 7.2.5.2 one tire must be touching an object out side the gate at moment the opposite tire on the same axle crosses the plane of the gate. since the vehicle approached from the side of the gate neither tire crosses the actual plane of the gate. for this same reason there would be no penalty for crossing the gate in the wrong direction. besides, crossing the gate in the wrong direction would only count if at least one tire per axle crosses the plane of the gate. 7.2.1 states that a gate is considered cleared (or progressed incorrectly) only when at least one tire per axle crosses the plane of the gate. Stepping one tire or axle the wrong direction through a gate would not count as a penalty as long as the other axle never crosses.

I feel the rules are confusing up front until you study them for a while then you realize the intent behind them. For now the rules work once you understand them but are defiantly left up to interpretation if not looked at close enough.

As far as making them simpler, It could only be done if the rule 7.2.1 is changed to say all 4 tires instead of 2. then all the straddle rules become void because then if any tire crosses outside the cones for any reason at the moment the other tire crosses the plane of the gate it would be a penalty.

We are gearing up for our season soon and i have been doing more judging and want to be as accurate as possible. I personally don't care what the rules are so long as they are understood properly and used correctly.

Thanks everyone for the reply's
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Old 03-06-2009, 08:06 PM   #25
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If I had to guess i would say this all took place at the big event up north?
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Old 03-06-2009, 08:29 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by joesbruiser View Post
If I had to guess i would say this all took place at the big event up north?
Yep it was at Motorama. I have no problem with the ruling, a judges decision is final and that's ok with me. I just want to be sure i'm clear with the rules before I do any judging in our next comp.
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Old 03-07-2009, 07:06 PM   #27
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Well Metal Masher, Since I am the Official rules guy for your club ( www.team-svsc.com ) I am going to make sure you are called for as many penalties as possible because that oversized, 100lb., tube chassied, Metal bodied, sway bar wearing scale rig you call a comp truck is not supposed to work that well

See you at the meeting tomorrow
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Old 03-07-2009, 08:24 PM   #28
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Ah, you're just jealous!
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Old 03-07-2009, 08:36 PM   #29
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Ah, you're just jealous!

Yep !!
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Old 03-18-2009, 08:47 AM   #30
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Quick Question on clearing a gate with progress and a penatly.
I'm sure this question was already anwsered, but I couldn't find the right anwser. Thanks for your help!
If a competitor hits a gate with a tire before any of his tires have cleared said gate, but goes through that same gate with at least one tire from each axle, "after the gate penatly". He would still be awarded a progress point.

Example: Driver hits gate with the outside edge of the right front tire (Gate Penatly) and then puts the left front tire and at least one back tire through the gate (Progress).

Thanks again! I just want to be as clear as I possably can be on this. Are new season starts this Saturday and the better we all are the better the competition will be.
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Old 03-18-2009, 12:28 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROCKCRUISER View Post
Quick Question on clearing a gate with progress and a penatly.
I'm sure this question was already anwsered, but I couldn't find the right anwser. Thanks for your help!
If a competitor hits a gate with a tire before any of his tires have cleared said gate, but goes through that same gate with at least one tire from each axle, "after the gate penatly". He would still be awarded a progress point.

Example: Driver hits gate with the outside edge of the right front tire (Gate Penatly) and then puts the left front tire and at least one back tire through the gate (Progress).

Thanks again! I just want to be as clear as I possably can be on this. Are new season starts this Saturday and the better we all are the better the competition will be.
Yes, you are correct. Just be certain that the one wheel per axle is completely inside the gate markers. Rolling over the marker or chalk outline with the one wheel does not count as progression.
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Old 03-18-2009, 12:39 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishmaxx View Post
Example 1 Not a straddle, but a TOUGH judge could say Rule 7.2.4 was violated .

7.2.4 - The first time through any un-cleared gate must be in the intended direction and in the correct
sequence of the course layout until that gate is cleared.

Rule 7.2.5 does specifically mention intentionally, but that gate appears to be the next gate in sequence.

• 7.2.5 - You cannot attempt any un-cleared gates out of sequence. If you intentionally enter an un-cleared
gate out of sequence you will receive a DNF for that course.


The intent of both of those rule are to prevent drivers from going around obsticles. This clearly was not the intent of the driver in Example 1. If I were judging I would probably NOT call it.





Example 2
Clearly No Gate Penelty

Example 3
Clearly No Gate Penelty with a 1x reverse
im with fishy on this one. had any of those events happened at a local comp i wouldn't call it.
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Old 03-19-2009, 09:00 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpdsurf View Post
Yes, you are correct. Just be certain that the one wheel per axle is completely inside the gate markers. Rolling over the marker or chalk outline with the one wheel does not count as progression.
Thanks
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