Suspension ruling Please

[DwaneO]

In my interpretation of the following rules this is totally legal. Look at my sketch and let me know what you think.

2.1.9 - Forced Articulation is allowed – Forced articulation is the use of something such as
hydraulics or electronics to literally force the suspension to move in a driver-controlled manner.

and

3.8 - The vehicle must run a course entirely with the same wheelbase, track width, ride height, and tires it started
that course with. Any changes to the vehicle (other than winching down the suspension or forced articulation) by
the driver, another person, or any device, while on the course are prohibited.

here is a sketch of my idea. Its crude , I'm not a draftsman or an artist


I could have my rig setting at 4" of ground clearance measuring a WB of 12.5"
then with the flick of a switch I could be setting at 2.75" of ground clearance at a WB of 13"

Nowhere in this rule does it say my radio must be turned off , or my truck powered down, during Tech in.

6.4 - Wheelbase: is measured from center of axle nut to center of axle nut. The vehicle should be set down on a
flat surface by the driver. The front wheel on the side that is being checked, must be pointing straight forward. At
that time, the driver will then push the entire truck down to complete a full compressed suspension. Once full
compression has been made, the driver then releases the truck to return to ride height. After the truck has rebound
to a self supporting ride height, a judge will then measure the wheelbase. If both sides are to be checked, all the
above procedures must be duplicated.

Then again , if during a run the Judge wants to Tech my truck as in this rule

o 1.4.4 Vehicle Out of Spec: If the Judge has reason to believe a vehicle is out of spec during a course run, he
may call time to stop. If time is called by the Judge, the Judge must mark the vehicle’s location and perform a tech
inspection in the specified tech area (same manner as all other tech inspections). If the vehicle has been deemed
within spec, the driver and vehicle will return to the location marked by the judge and the clock will start once
again. If the vehicle is now out of spec and the Judge has determined that the vehicle has gained an advantage, the
driver must take a repair (see rule 1.4.3) to correct the problem. If the problem can not be corrected to bring the
vehicle back within spec, the driver will receive a DNF for that course (see rule 1.8 ). If a vehicle falls out of spec
due to breakage on course and the Judge determines the driver has not gained an advantage, then the driver may
be allowed to continue on course without stopping time and requiring a tech inspection. Bodies, and body panels are
not included in this exception, and must be replaced immediately, standard repair procedures and penalties apply.

I carry my truck back to the specified Tech area and he reTech's my truck.....its back to 12.5"

I've had this idea for quite a while now. With the new rule in place on Tech in procedure , it really opened it up for me to pursue this option.
I would like feedback from the rules committee members, and other thoughts on this idea.

Thanks
Dwane

If this gets shot down I have a solution

[JeremyH]

2.1.6 - All suspension mounting points must be fixed mounted. This includes all link mounts, and
shock mounts.

[binaryterror]

According to our club, and maybe weve seen this wrong, but your trucks suspension mounting points are not fixed and therefore are illegal.

o 2.1.6 - All suspension mounting points must be fixed mounted. This includes all link mounts, and shock mounts.

One of the many definitions of the word fixed, is stationary. Your shock mounts move.

[hellbentrodder]

Why would someone want to put so much effort into essentially "cheating"?

[DwaneO]

Originally Posted by binaryterror

According to our club, and maybe weve seen this wrong, but your trucks suspension mounting points are not fixed and therefore are illegal.

o 2.1.6 - All suspension mounting points must be fixed mounted. This includes all link mounts, and shock mounts.

One of the many definitions of the word fixed, is stationary. Your shock mounts move.

Yes they do , but so does a rocker on a CC-01. It IS fixed to the truck , it cant come off.

Originally Posted by hellbentrodder

Why would someone want to put so much effort into essentially "cheating"?

LMFAO So true my friend
With the level of competition today , you need every advantage you can get.
They left those sub sections in the rules for a reason. And that was so creative people can use them.
Having an advantage like this doesn't mean I'm gona "Win The Worlds " but I'll have fun trying.
I bet the first guy that came up with a dig didn't win it either , but he was thinking about it and coming up with new ideas.

Thanks for the input guys , I wana hear some more

[rock hard]

its not about cheating,its about using the rules to ones advantage.

but some read the rules different than others.

like the wheelbase

I say that rule 3.8 clearly makes using dig illegal if it stretches your chassis past 12.5

this is easily fixed.

amend 3.8 as follows winching/forced articulation/dig are excluded.

the real can of open worms is the rules surrounding boundries.
the lack of a definition for forward progress and course designers can modify the rules to meet thier intentions.

[rob_b]

I know rocker arms have long been out of favor. But to my understanding they are totally legal, I think the '07 Super National Champ was running them. This is just a different use of the same principal and seams to fall completely into rules 2.1.9 and 3.8. Is it going against the spirit of the rules? Definitely. Is it within the rules? I think so

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by binaryterror

according to our club, and maybe weve seen this wrong, but your trucks suspension mounting points are not fixed and therefore are illegal.

O 2.1.6 - all suspension mounting points must be fixed mounted. This includes all link mounts, and shock mounts.

One of the many definitions of the word fixed, is stationary. Your shock mounts move.

x2





.

[rob_b]

So your standard rocker arm setup is illegal then?

[Tanis]

Originally Posted by rob_b

So your standard rocker arm setup is illegal then?

As is CR01 for instance or stock TLT?

[rob_b]

Originally Posted by Tanis

As is CR01 for instance or stock TLT?

Sure

[rock hard]

the mounts dont move they are fixed.

a shock is bolted to a mount. does the mount move?

my links move,my shocks move,but none of my mounts move.
mounts are stationary.

your knuckles move but not thier mounts.

[rob_b]

Well if you want to get technical...

On a "standard" rocker setup the cap end of the shock is mounted to an immobile mounting point (chassis) and the rod end is mounted to a moving mounting point (rocker).

Dwane's artistic rendering has the cap end mounted to the moving mounting point (rocker) and the rod end is mounted to an immobile mounting point (axle mount). Yes the axle itselt moves but not where the shock attaches.

so IF your "standard" setup is legal technically how is this any different?

[rock hard]

what I was saying is that our mounts dont move.

thats why they are mounts.

there is motion but the actuall mounts do not move.

that being said. the above mentioned idea would be illegal the way drawn I believe.

I am not sure about that though.will read a little more right quick.

[rock hard]

no man it is totally legal to have a suspension that is forced beyond 12.5
that is wicked. and there is no limit on its length.

you can have your truck sprung up like a pissed off house cat.
be at 12.5 then as soon as you start course you can force that baby down and out to whatever length is possible.

thats insane,I hope I see this advantage put to use.

[h8z2luze]

What about using a suck-down winch?

[jlast]

Not on the rules committee or such but :

neither shock point is fixed. Fixed in this case is simply in relation to the chassis AS it is the ONLY object that is itself a fixed object.

standard Cantilever setup, "rocker" has a fixed shock point.

winch/forced suspension is in simple vertical movement, otherwise you fall under 2.1.6 and full suspension cycle to fit in 6.4 as mentioned.

Dig, at no time will or really could you be teched UNDER power, not sure where that even came from ? completely taken care of and clearly stated in 6.4

Originally Posted by rock hard

its not about cheating,its about using the rules to ones advantage.
but some read the rules different than others.

outside the rules is cheating, there is no advantage cause everyone gets the same rules and follows them. If you read ALL the rules they are pretty darn clear with some edited from last yrs. bending and claiming you misinterpreted the rules is Flat ass Cheating, if you had to think about it that hard you knew it in the first place

beyond that simply ask, just like this thread poster.

if you cant drive, no amount of cheating/bending, and wheelbase will make you better.

[rob_b]

Our MOA trucks are setup very soft and winching down the suspension will make it too stiff for our liking. So we are looking for a way to temporarily add spring rate/ride height.

No one is trying to cheat. Dwane was only asking if the suspension design fit within the forced articulation rule 2.1.9. To some of us the fun in this hobby is building and setting up the trucks. In last years comp series I don't this Dwane ran the same chassis twice.

So again to the R.C. will a standard rocker arm suspension setup like the CC01 pass tech?

[ROCKEDUP RICKY]

something like this.

[rob_b]

That's pretty cool Yes exactly like that.