Common Rule Myths and Mistakes

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Tire over and not touching gate marker = no penalty.

Axle over gate marker = penalty.

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

So my original post was correct? You can pass a wheel over the marker (not touching it), but not the axle.

Half of what you said in your original post is correct.

[TwistedCreations]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

So now I'm confused again...let me see if I have it straight...

This rule is for when you are in the air...
Are you attempting to progress the gate?

Orange

[rock hard]

Originally Posted by TwistedCreations

Once again, another myth of older rules

1.12 - Course Direction (10 pts) Gates must be cleared in their intended direction and sequence. Any part of the vehicle entering an un-cleared gate in the wrong direction, or driven through out of sequence will result in a 10 point penalty. The judge will stop time. The vehicle is then moved back by the driver to the previously cleared gate with the rear axle aligned to that gate. If the vehicle cannot be aligned to the gate due to course design, the judge will reposition the vehicle to the next stable location after the cleared gate. This location will be used for all drivers. Once the gate is cleared and awarded progress it can be traveled in any sequence or direction.

You got me
I remember now,it changed about the same time as the boundry penalty.

[renoirbud]

I am going to say that there is some room left to improve/clearify this rule.

Get to work rules committee, thats why we pay you so well.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by TwistedCreations

Orange

Assuming that the rule was intended for rigs that are rolling end over end downhill and happen to pass over a gate marker, no, I'm not attempting progress on that gate.

However, once I pass through a gate and clear it, I cannot back up and straddle it? I'm not attempting progress on it, its already cleared.

[TwistedCreations]

Originally Posted by renoirbud

I am going to say that there is some room left to improve/clearify this rule.

Get to work rules committee, thats why we pay you so well.

May I ask on how we could clarify it any more simple than the following:

All 4 tires must pass completely through the gate to receive the progress bonus without a gate penalty. (See Illustration A)

The rules doesn't say over or outside of or hovering or whatever else. It states "through" the gate...Does that word need to be changed to "Between both gate markers"?

Originally Posted by Duuuuude

However, once I pass through a gate and clear it, I cannot back up and straddle it? I'm not attempting progress on it, its already cleared.

No you can not. If you back up and straddle that gate, you will receive a 10 point gate penalty and a 1 point reverse penalty. If at any time you straddle a gate, it is a penalty as all gates stay alive (unless that gate has been deemed dead by touching, stepping or straddling the marker)

[rock hard]

Originally Posted by TwistedCreations

May I ask on how we could clarify it any more simple than the following:

All 4 tires must pass completely through the gate to receive the progress bonus without a gate penalty. (See Illustration A)

Keep in mind I like to launch my truck through gates.
So don't go looking for a rope to hange me with.


Listen,its hard to call it when they are in the air sometimes.
at crawlapalooza A guy launched through a gate that knowone else had.
It was unexpected and happened fast,I myself couldnt say that all 4 wheels didnt get through clean. A pair of other drivers said he straddled,However they was several feet away,and didnt have a good view IMO.

The driver said he didnt know.In my mind if I didnt see it I cant call it.
I must give benifite of the doubt to the driver.

If the rule was changed to say that all 4 tires must be on ground for progress this would no longer be an issue.And would make it easier on a judge to call,though I feel it would take alot of fun out of it.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by TwistedCreations

May I ask on how we could clarify it any more simple than the following:

All 4 tires must pass completely through the gate to receive the progress bonus without a gate penalty. (See Illustration A)

The rules doesn't say over or outside of or hovering or whatever else. It states "through" the gate...Does that word need to be changed to "Between both gate markers"?

I think each rule on its own is fairly clear, but when referenced together it is confusing.

7.3.2 - If at any time the axle of a vehicle (facing in any direction) passes over any part of a gate marker and both tires of that axle are touching the ground (or any object on the ground) on opposite sides of the gate markers,
it is considered a straddle and a Gate Marker penalty is assessed.

What if I wheelie over the gate with both tires in the air? Yes its a silly question, but this rules only refers to them being on the ground...

I would assume to receive a gate penalty but still keep progress points.

Originally Posted by TwistedCreations

No you can not. If you back up and straddle that gate, you will receive a 10 point gate penalty and a 1 point reverse penalty. If at any time you straddle a gate, it is a penalty as all gates stay alive (unless that gate has been deemed dead by touching, stepping or straddling the marker)

Gotcha.

[TwistedCreations]

Originally Posted by rock hard

Keep in mind I like to launch my truck through gates.
So don't go looking for a rope to hange me with.


Listen,its hard to call it when they are in the air sometimes.

Ohh I know it is hard to call them sometimes in the air. That is why I as a course designer, do not try and set gates up so that they may be jumped through to have these questionable calls. But you can never eliminate all the possibilities. So as an experienced judge, I would position myself to be able to call it. 99% of the time you can tell whether they went through or not. It's that 1% that falls back upon the judge. As you said, this crawling is not a slow paced sport anymore and stuff happens faster than you can blink. But as long as that judge calls it the exact same for everyone, there should be no problem.

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

What if I wheelie over the gate with both tires in the air? Yes its a silly question, but this rules only refers to them being on the ground...

Well if you "wheelie" through, either both front tire or both rear tires would be in the air(depending on which way you "wheelie"), thus still leaving 2 tires on the ground when straddling the gate.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by TwistedCreations

Well if you "wheelie" through, either both front tire or both rear tires would be in the air(depending on which way you "wheelie"), thus still leaving 2 tires on the ground when straddling the gate.

I didn't say through, I said over, meaning wheelie the front axle over the gate marker with the rear still behind it.

And the rules refer to the tires on the axle in question, not the ones still behind the gate.

[renoirbud]

Originally Posted by TwistedCreations

May I ask on how we could clarify it any more simple than the following:

All 4 tires must pass completely through the gate to receive the progress bonus without a gate penalty. (See Illustration A)

But there are rules when you can hover over a gate and it is a penalty, other times its not.

I aint no fancy big city lawyer, nor are the judges. Simpler is better.

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by renoirbud

But there are rules when you can hover over a gate and it is a penalty, other times its not.

I aint no fancy big city lawyer, nor are the judges. Simpler is better.

We have covered hovering already

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

Any part of a truck CAN flip, fly, hover, float, hover, twist or launch over the gate in any direction!

If the truck ...... 1) doesn't touch the gate, 2) doesn't straddle the gate, or 3) doesn't make progress.....ITS A NOT A PENALTY

It doesn't get any simpler than don't touch it, don't straddle it, and don't make progress without getting 4 tires through.


Do all the flips, flops, wheelies, endos, somersaults, vaults, pirouettes you want they are not a penalty

[92PathSE]

Thanks Fish

But I do have a question...

If I somehow manage to have one tire in the air while passing between a pair of gate markers, is there a penalty? In other words, is there a rule somewhere that I missed that says that you must have all 4 on the ground to get Progress/avoid some penalty? I wouldn't think so, since I've seen it happen and there wasn't a problem...but I wanna check.

Got another rule question, but I'll save it for next time I see you guys, as I'm probably just trying to complicate a simple rule...

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by 92PathSE

Thanks Fish

But I do have a question...

If I somehow manage to have one tire in the air while passing between a pair of gate markers, is there a penalty? In other words, is there a rule somewhere that I missed that says that you must have all 4 on the ground to get Progress/avoid some penalty? I wouldn't think so, since I've seen it happen and there wasn't a problem...but I wanna check.

Got another rule question, but I'll save it for next time I see you guys, as I'm probably just trying to complicate a simple rule...

It doesn't matter how you get through, as long as you get through. I've cleared gates upside down and backwards, and seen many others do it airborn. As long as you don't hit a marker and you go through the direction intended, you're good.

[rock hard]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

It doesn't matter how you get through, as long as you get through. I've cleared gates upside down and backwards, and seen many others do it airborn. As long as you don't hit a marker and you get all 4 tires through the markers the direction intended, you're good.

Fixed it for ya

If you launch a gate and your airborne,its certain you wont hit a gate
But you still have to get all 4 tires to pass between the gates to avoid a penalty

[GASMOKEDIVER732]

i got on this thread to learn the rules but you guys confused the HE?? out of me

[rock hard]

Originally Posted by GASMOKEDIVER732

i got on this thread to learn the rules but you guys confused the HE?? out of me

I hear ya,but...............

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

It doesn't get any simpler than don't touch it, don't straddle it, and don't make progress without getting 4 tires through.

Do all the flips, flops, wheelies, endos, somersaults, vaults, pirouettes you want they are not a penalty

Its really not that bad

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by GASMOKEDIVER732

i got on this thread to learn the rules but you guys confused the HE?? out of me

Sorry about that!

Having multiple questions being asked at the same time will do that. The first step is to figure out who you should be listening to for accurate information.

The guys posting that are on Rules Committee is a good place to start.

Thats not a knock against anyone....sometimes you see experienced guys opinion stated as fact and that confuses the newer guys

[Mic]

There was one today that has not been covered, and I believed was called a gate penalty incorrectly by one of our judges today.

Here it goes: Driver gets front wheels all the way though the gate and is attempting to clear the gate with the rear wheels. Rear axle drops in a crack and causes the truck, to twist backwards/sideways and front left wheel now floats backwards over the gate . ( No touch no straddle on the front wheels which have already cleared the gate) driver continues to drive forward ( never a reverse penalty ) and front wheel floats back over the gate ( no touch, no straddle). Driver continues and rear wheels clear the gate.

Judge called progress and 10 point gate penalty. Which I believe was incorrect?

To simplify. Front axle cleared - than floated back ( no touch, no straddle, no reverse) and the rear axle cleared.

I believe this was a clean gate, progress no penalty and that is how I would have called it for the driver.

So Fish what do you think?

[TwistedCreations]

That really is a "you have to be there to see it" moment IMO.


But there is no penalty for a float. The front tires went "between" the gate and the rear tires went "between" the gate. So that would be a progressed and cleared gate.

Now the problem that lies, is the "float" after the fact his front tires cleanly went between. Since it happened after the fact, I personally would not have called a penalty. If he had floated the tire while trying to get the front tires through the 1st time, i would have eventually called a penalty if he didn't correct it. But since the front tires went through correctly the first time, i feel that there would not be something to correct.


This is a good question though and would like to see how Fish and other committee guys feel..If I'm wrong, that's my new thing I learned for the day