Common Rule Myths and Mistakes

[EvilTwin v2]

Originally Posted by Cirederf

Thanks a lot again it look more clear now .
What happened if the gate where the rig fall on is a gate already cleared ? In my previous example , not the gate 6 but the gate 2 .
If I understand correctly there is no penalty , only if the rig heat the gate marker still alive ?

Exactly. If its already cleared, and you tumbled through without touching it, then no penalty.

[Cirederf]

Thanks again for your help

[Fishmaxx]

In the process of editing the rules.......and will eventualluy edit this tread to match.

In 2013 the act of straddling a gate is no longer a penalty

Drivers still have to get 4 tire between the gates without touching the gates to remain penalty free.

Course Designers/Clubs/Comp Organizers always have the option to use TALLER gates

[Olle P]

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

In 2013 the act of straddling a gate is no longer a penalty
Drivers still have to get 4 tire between the gates without touching the gates to remain penalty free.

How do these two sentences add up?
Straddling isn't entering, so turning around (after straddling) and driving between the gate markers proper is a legal way to clear that gate?

[Dr.Frank]

Originally Posted by Olle P

How do these two sentences add up?
Straddling isn't entering, so turning around (after straddling) and driving between the gate markers proper is a legal way to clear that gate?

Here are a bit closer explanation:

http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/rules...-heads-up.html

...i'm pretty sure more will follow very soon.

Greetings Frank

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by Olle P

How do these two sentences add up?
Straddling isn't entering, so turning around (after straddling) and driving between the gate markers proper is a legal way to clear that gate?

According to the rule its nearly impossible to straddle a gate without entering it, so I am not sure what you trying to say.

Here is my attempt to explain it better

Once you have been given progress ....

▪ 7.2.1 - A gate is considered cleared when at least one front and one rear wheel passes between the two gate
markers, and all four tires are past the gate in the intended direction of the gate.

You will be given a penalty if you don't get 4x tire between the gates.

▪ 7.2.6 - If one wheel from the front axle and one wheel from the rear axle passes between two gate markers
(vehicle straddles a gate), that gate is considered a cleared gate. This however will result in a Gate Marker penalty of 10 points and a gate progress bonus is awarded.

The red will be removed, but it still doesn't change the meaning.

Straddle actually has or had a very specific meaning, and a very precise moment when it was called.

6.8 - Straddle: A gate is considered straddled if at any time the axle of a vehicle (facing in any direction) passes over any part of a gate marker and both tires of that axle are touching the ground (or any object on the ground) on opposite sides of the gate markers, it is considered a straddle and a Gate Marker penalty is assessed.

That precise moment is what going way.

[wrcfan29]

Question about clearing a gate and moving onto the next gate:

If my truck is coming downhill, hits the gate marker with the front axle, one front and one rear tire go through the gate opening, what is the correct out come? Gate penalty, progress, and move onto the next gate?

Second question, similar situation, if my truck is coming downhill, hits the gate marker with the front axle, only a front tire goes through the gate opening, what is the correct outcome? Gate penalty and the truck has to drive back through the gate in the intended direction before moving on to the next gate?

Thanks for the help

[Hardline]

All that sounds right to me. But once hit, you own that marker so on the retry there's no difference between 4 tires through and 2 tires through on that same side.

But interestingly, now that straddle is no longer a penalty, I would think you could also take the gate on the other side as long as you never touch that marker during the retry.

[Grandmasboy]

Originally Posted by Hardline

But interestingly, now that straddle is no longer a penalty, I would think you could also take the gate on the other side as long as you never touch that marker during the retry.

You could only do that if the gate is already progressed. Even with the other gate marker dead, if you drive over (without touching) the live gate, and make progress, another gate penalty would be assessed. Even though a "straddle" is no longer a penalty, progressing a gate without getting all 4 tires between the markers is.

[Curcal]

Originally Posted by wrcfan29

Question about clearing a gate and moving onto the next gate:

If my truck is coming downhill, hits the gate marker with the front axle, one front and one rear tire go through the gate opening, what is the correct out come? Gate penalty, progress, and move onto the next gate?

Second question, similar situation, if my truck is coming downhill, hits the gate marker with the front axle, only a front tire goes through the gate opening, what is the correct outcome? Gate penalty and the truck has to drive back through the gate in the intended direction before moving on to the next gate?

Thanks for the help

#1 yes. Progress, gate
#2 Yes. Gate no progress

[Hardline]

Originally Posted by Grandmasboy

You could only do that if the gate is already progressed. Even with the other gate marker dead, if you drive over (without touching) the live gate, and make progress, another gate penalty would be assessed. Even though a "straddle" is no longer a penalty, progressing a gate without getting all 4 tires between the markers is.

That makes sense. My reasoning was he took the gate penalty on the first pass where he failed to get all four tires through and you can't take two gate penalties on the same gate. So on the retry he's no longer trying to get through clean...just get two tires thru for progress.

Since you don't like my straddle progress on the live side (I kinda agree) now I wonder if he can even take a straddle progress on the dead side without getting another 10 points. If he straddles the dead marker, is it now 20 points because he touched a marker on one pass, and failed to put 4-thru on the second pass?

[rock hard]

Originally Posted by Hardline

That makes sense. My reasoning was he took the gate penalty on the first pass where he failed to get all four tires through and you can't take two gate penalties on the same gate.

You can get 2 gate penalties on 1 gate, I have done it many times,
but can't get penalized 2x for the same marker.

[Grandmasboy]

Originally Posted by Hardline

.....you can't take two gate penalties on the same gate marker.

Since you don't like my straddle progress on the live side (I kinda agree) now I wonder if he can even take a straddle progress on the dead side without getting another 10 points. yes he can. If he straddles the dead marker, is it now 20 points because he touched a marker on one pass, and failed to put 4-thru on the second pass?

I can see your point because GATE is the most general penalty we have, but a gate marker cannot count against you multiple times so no, it wouldn't be an additional 10 points.
In order to get progress with no penalty (a "clean" progress) you must get all 4 tires through 2 LIVE gate markers. If you have already hit a gate marker, then a " clean" progress is no longer possible. So at this point 2 tires through or 4 tires through, a progress is a progress. (Just watch out for the other marker, it's still live.)

[Hardline]

Originally Posted by Grandmasboy

So at this point 2 tires through or 4 tires through, a progress is a progress.

Heh, I think you just supported my original contention. "A progress is a progress." So straddling the other side (not hitting the marker) is indeed such a progress.

[Grandmasboy]

I guess I should have been more specific. The 2 tires or 4 tires comment was for dealing with the already dead gate marker. Driving across the live gate marker would result in another gate penalty.

I just noticed your location. I love that movie.

[xkill]

I know this is one of the most basic rules but there's some discussion between the guys over here about the right way to measure the height of the chassis.

Is it this one:



Or this one:



The chassis is the same, on the second picture it is just rotated to its mounting position.
This rotation makes it look like it's higher even if the chassis is the same.

So, what is right and what is wrong?

[Hardline]

Since the big dogs haven't jumped on this, let me give you two answers:

1) If a rule is not specific in it's written form it's up to the event officials, in this case the tech guy, to reasonably interpret the rules for your particular situation.

2) If I were the tech guy -- set it flat on a table as it will be driven and measure from low point to high point. Which I presume is your second sketch.

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by xkill

I know this is one of the most basic rules but there's some discussion between the guys over here about the right way to measure the height of the chassis.

Is it this one:



Or this one:



The chassis is the same, on the second picture it is just rotated to its mounting position.
This rotation makes it look like it's higher even if the chassis is the same.

So, what is right and what is wrong?

▪ 2.1.2 - All vehicle specifications regardless of class, body or bodiless the measurements are to be taken in the vehicle's ready to run condition while sitting on a flat surface (i.e. tech table).

[CM9000]

so, on course alteration..... you get disqualified for intentionally doing it. ie "throwing and object at your crawler to get it working again" you get dq for that. but ive not seen a single person.. get a dq for intentionally moving a few rocks with their steering on their rig.

[EvilTwin v2]

Originally Posted by crawlingman9000

so, on course alteration..... you get disqualified for intentionally doing it. ie "throwing and object at your crawler to get it working again" you get dq for that. but ive not seen a single person.. get a dq for intentionally moving a few rocks with their steering on their rig.

There's a big difference between the effect that your truck may or may not have on the dirt, rocks, sticks, etc. while driving on the course and you, physically moving, kicking, pushing, throwing something that changes the course.