Common Rule Myths and Mistakes
 

There are several "RULE MYTHS" I continue to run across every time I go outside my local club.

I got 3 tires through!

If you only get 3 tires through its a penalty!

1.5 - Gate Marker (10 pts each): each gate will be comprised of 2 gate markers. Points are given when 4 wheels do not travel between gate markers or any part of the vehicle or driver touches a gate marker.

You can get 2x tires (1x front/1x rear same side) through for progress, but its penalty. 3x tires through means nothing special.


1.10 - Progress bonus (-2 progress point): shall be awarded to drivers for each gate that is cleared by the vehicle during the attempt of a course. A gate is considered cleared and a progress bonus shall be given when at least one front and one rear tire passes completely through the gate in the intended direction of the gate. All 4 tires must pass completely through the gate to receive the progress bonus without a gate penalty. (See Illustration A) A 10 point gate penalty shall be given if all 4 tires do not clear the gate, even if no gate marker is touched or straddled. The tires of the vehicle must travel completely through the gate, and not just break the plane of the gate. Tires must pass through the gate in the same direction and in the same attempt before a progress bonus is awarded.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i3...RCCA_Rules.jpg






Another myth thats related to this.

Driver driving through a gate claims....
I got progress before my tire hit the gate.

IMPOSSIBLE unless they go through the gate then reverse or back flip towards the gate. (See above)







I got PROGRESS because my wheel nut past the center of marker, so thats PROGRESS

WRONG see above






There are imaginary beams of light coming from the gate going straight up into the sky that you can't break

1000% WRONG There is zero reference to this being a rule. If anyone tells you that...."Tell that is not in the Rules!"

The ultra-simple break down is..

If you touch the gate, or don't get 4x Tires through the gate BEFORE making progress.....ITS A PENALTY

more to come:shock:

Thanks again for this clarification , and the informative lesson up in St. George. This should really help. "thumbsup" ( Imaginary beams of light :lmao: )

Redlinerob

This is one of the biggest misunderstood rules. It has to be explained alot, even with the picture placed in the rules.

Fish you need to explain if you are attempting a gate and you roll sideways over a gate and you do not touch the gate that it is a hover and a gate penalty. Alot of people do not call that a gate because you hovered the gate with your body and not the axle.

How does that not contradict this

I have called same scenario as no progress,no penalty.Driver must reattempt gate,but I could be interpreting the rule wrong.



Thank you fish for the detailed clarity,this will help everyone understand even better,how we should be calling when judging.

Thanks for the clarification!

If the truck l;aunches a gate and is in air,and as a judge I can clearly see that one of the tires didnt pass "between or through" the gate markers.

1. its a progress with penalty?

2.its not a penalty but they get no progress?

3. its progress and no penalty?

Me I'd call a penalty as the truck in my mind has progressed,but it wasnt progressed with all 4 tires between the gate markers.

Progress with a penalty. "thumbsup"

if you progress through gate 4 and when attempting gate 5 your truck goes out of control and scrambles accross gate 4, but does not touch the gate markers, that is no penaly right? Because gate 4 was already cleared?

Scrambles?

I thought you ordered those at Denny's :flipoff:


Your over complicating it with Scrambles. Scrambles is not a penalty, so its irrelevant.

In any situation ask yourself these 3 questions.

1) Did they touch the gate?
2) Did they straddle the Gate?
3) Did they get 4 tire through the gate before making progress?



Answer:
1) No = No Penalty
2) No = No Penalty
3) No = Penalty

:flipoff:

lol, Thanks fishmaxx for postng this. it also transfers over to scale rules in my opinion.

I just find it funny how other people intentionally or un intentionally read the rules when I clearly understand them.

you have one guy who is looking for the hole in the rule to squeek by while the other is confused by other rules being related or non related to the rules.

Now I know why McDonalds has 12 lawyers write 13 pages of rules for the Monopoly promotion:mrgreen:

You can pass an axle over the gate, as long as your wheels are not touching the ground and your not making progress. (current rules)

I think we need taller gate markers and if you touch them penalty, if you do not, your good.

I do not like a rule that changes if you make progress or you don't.

It could just be that that one guy wants the rule to be 100% understood and is playing the devils advocate.

Exactly.

Going through gates wrong direction or out of sequence is a disqualafication
as I recall.

I actuslly need to read the rules again.
\I think its mearly enering and your dq'd. But maybe you have to prgress in wrong direction/sequence.

But I think once youve entered your out of the game.

Once again, another myth of older rules :lmao:

1.12 - Course Direction (10 pts) Gates must be cleared in their intended direction and sequence. Any part of the vehicle entering an un-cleared gate in the wrong direction, or driven through out of sequence will result in a 10 point penalty. The judge will stop time. The vehicle is then moved back by the driver to the previously cleared gate with the rear axle aligned to that gate. If the vehicle cannot be aligned to the gate due to course design, the judge will reposition the vehicle to the next stable location after the cleared gate. This location will be used for all drivers. Once the gate is cleared and awarded progress it can be traveled in any sequence or direction.

It was in 2009.

So now I'm confused again...let me see if I have it straight...

This rule is for when you are in the air...

This rule is for when you are on the ground...

Half of what you said in your original post is correct.

Orange

You got me:oops:
I remember now,it changed about the same time as the boundry penalty.

I am going to say that there is some room left to improve/clearify this rule.

Get to work rules committee, thats why we pay you so well.

Assuming that the rule was intended for rigs that are rolling end over end downhill and happen to pass over a gate marker, no, I'm not attempting progress on that gate.

However, once I pass through a gate and clear it, I cannot back up and straddle it? I'm not attempting progress on it, its already cleared.

May I ask on how we could clarify it any more simple than the following:

All 4 tires must pass completely through the gate to receive the progress bonus without a gate penalty. (See Illustration A)

The rules doesn't say over or outside of or hovering or whatever else. It states "through" the gate...Does that word need to be changed to "Between both gate markers"?


No you can not. If you back up and straddle that gate, you will receive a 10 point gate penalty and a 1 point reverse penalty. If at any time you straddle a gate, it is a penalty as all gates stay alive (unless that gate has been deemed dead by touching, stepping or straddling the marker)

Keep in mind I like to launch my truck through gates.
So don't go looking for a rope to hange me with.


Listen,its hard to call it when they are in the air sometimes.
at crawlapalooza A guy launched through a gate that knowone else had.
It was unexpected and happened fast,I myself couldnt say that all 4 wheels didnt get through clean. A pair of other drivers said he straddled,However they was several feet away,and didnt have a good view IMO.

The driver said he didnt know.In my mind if I didnt see it I cant call it.
I must give benifite of the doubt to the driver.

If the rule was changed to say that all 4 tires must be on ground for progress this would no longer be an issue.And would make it easier on a judge to call,though I feel it would take alot of fun out of it.

I think each rule on its own is fairly clear, but when referenced together it is confusing.

What if I wheelie over the gate with both tires in the air? Yes its a silly question, but this rules only refers to them being on the ground...

I would assume to receive a gate penalty but still keep progress points.

Gotcha.

Ohh I know it is hard to call them sometimes in the air. That is why I as a course designer, do not try and set gates up so that they may be jumped through to have these questionable calls. But you can never eliminate all the possibilities. So as an experienced judge, I would position myself to be able to call it. 99% of the time you can tell whether they went through or not. It's that 1% that falls back upon the judge. As you said, this crawling is not a slow paced sport anymore and stuff happens faster than you can blink. But as long as that judge calls it the exact same for everyone, there should be no problem.

Well if you "wheelie" through, either both front tire or both rear tires would be in the air(depending on which way you "wheelie"), thus still leaving 2 tires on the ground when straddling the gate.

I didn't say through, I said over, meaning wheelie the front axle over the gate marker with the rear still behind it.

And the rules refer to the tires on the axle in question, not the ones still behind the gate.

But there are rules when you can hover over a gate and it is a penalty, other times its not.

I aint no fancy big city lawyer, nor are the judges. Simpler is better.

We have covered hovering already



It doesn't get any simpler than don't touch it, don't straddle it, and don't make progress without getting 4 tires through.


Do all the flips, flops, wheelies, endos, somersaults, vaults, pirouettes you want they are not a penalty;-)

Thanks Fish "thumbsup"

But I do have a question...

If I somehow manage to have one tire in the air while passing between a pair of gate markers, is there a penalty? In other words, is there a rule somewhere that I missed that says that you must have all 4 on the ground to get Progress/avoid some penalty? I wouldn't think so, since I've seen it happen and there wasn't a problem...but I wanna check.

Got another rule question, but I'll save it for next time I see you guys, as I'm probably just trying to complicate a simple rule... :mrgreen:

It doesn't matter how you get through, as long as you get through. I've cleared gates upside down and backwards, and seen many others do it airborn. As long as you don't hit a marker and you go through the direction intended, you're good.

Fixed it for ya"thumbsup"

If you launch a gate and your airborne,its certain you wont hit a gate
But you still have to get all 4 tires to pass between the gates to avoid a penalty"thumbsup"

i got on this thread to learn the rules but you guys confused the HE?? out of me

I hear ya,but...............

Its really not that bad"thumbsup"

Sorry about that!

Having multiple questions being asked at the same time will do that. The first step is to figure out who you should be listening to for accurate information.

The guys posting that are on Rules Committee is a good place to start.

Thats not a knock against anyone....sometimes you see experienced guys opinion stated as fact and that confuses the newer guys "thumbsup"

There was one today that has not been covered, and I believed was called a gate penalty incorrectly by one of our judges today.

Here it goes: Driver gets front wheels all the way though the gate and is attempting to clear the gate with the rear wheels. Rear axle drops in a crack and causes the truck, to twist backwards/sideways and front left wheel now floats backwards over the gate . ( No touch no straddle on the front wheels which have already cleared the gate) driver continues to drive forward ( never a reverse penalty ) and front wheel floats back over the gate ( no touch, no straddle). Driver continues and rear wheels clear the gate.

Judge called progress and 10 point gate penalty. Which I believe was incorrect?

To simplify. Front axle cleared - than floated back ( no touch, no straddle, no reverse) and the rear axle cleared.

I believe this was a clean gate, progress no penalty and that is how I would have called it for the driver.

So Fish what do you think?

That really is a "you have to be there to see it" moment IMO.


But there is no penalty for a float. The front tires went "between" the gate and the rear tires went "between" the gate. So that would be a progressed and cleared gate.

Now the problem that lies, is the "float" after the fact his front tires cleanly went between. Since it happened after the fact, I personally would not have called a penalty. If he had floated the tire while trying to get the front tires through the 1st time, i would have eventually called a penalty if he didn't correct it. But since the front tires went through correctly the first time, i feel that there would not be something to correct.


This is a good question though and would like to see how Fish and other committee guys feel..If I'm wrong, that's my new thing I learned for the day "thumbsup"