Usrcca "judges"

[Fishmaxx]

As far a Judges testing something is in the works

It will be a VOLUNTARY TEST that will be used a teaching tool.

Unless something radically changes in the ECONOMICS of our sport Competition Organizers will remain in charge of the quality of their Judges. It cost time effort and MONEY to get JUDGES. Restricting the pool of Judges will only cost more time and money.

[blue10]

Originally Posted by DRIVNMF

As a driver, you should be at a comp to throw down the lowest score you can and HAVE FUN! If your at a comp to see what you can get away with or how to exploit the grey areas of the rules, put your little truck in your big truck and go home.

Ding!! We have a winner!! Give this man something to wear around his neck!

[chasinbaja]

Originally Posted by slowrockr

Wow, just read through this, what's happening to this hobby?

EXACTLY! Getting tested and having a "resume"... come on now!@

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by chasinbaja

EXACTLY! Getting tested and having a "resume"... come on now!@

Next time you spend $500 to travel across country, and get judged by someone that's never read the rules you may feel differently.

Having said that it is a hobby that we do for fun, and that's why testing and/or certification will be a VOLUNTARY program.

So far everyone that has taken the sample TEST...loved it, and asked me to send the full test ASAP.

The guys that have the BALLS to step up want to be good judges, so they are not scared to take a test that makes them better

[rock hard]

Originally Posted by Cruzin Illusion

I made that comment because I have seen where judges comments have made a difference for a driver good and bad. What a judge says during a run should not help you with your decision on how you take a line or run a course. As for the stupid commentary, you should not have to hear an on going play by play or razzing when running the course you are on.

I can buy that,National was my forst time judging other than local.In our club we nearly alway help the driver allong,I simply did what came natural.
I realize that was improper,that being said I did do it consistantly just ask rockshow
At crawlapaloozy I was very nuatral,only telling drivers where the naxt gate is and to watch the boundry ect.

Let the driver drive and pick his or her own lines through a course. Sometimes a line someone elses sees that you don't maybe their advantage. Why should a judge point out a line another driver doesn't see. If you want everyone to run the same lines put boundries on both sides throughout the whole course.

agreed

As for spotters I agree with Parker. A driver should know how to drive his rig and know how to approach each gate. I think spotters are good to help you navigate from gate to gate so you do not spend a ton of time looking for gates. I don't know how many times I can watch the same course and when it is my turn I am asking wheres the next gate.

I think spotters are benificail to a driver,you can have your lines picked out.
Then something happen that gets your frustrated and out of focus.
A spotter can help you regain that focus,and keep you on track.

With scores being so close, I just think you should let the driver secide on who is better rather than a judge making a comment to help or hurt a driver.

I guess I havnt seen much of this ( as far as razzing goes),so I've not seen it an issue.

I would still ask,what would the penalty be for such comments you mention???

[rock hard]

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

The guys that have the BALLS to step up want to be good judges, so they are not scared to take a test that makes them better

Yep

[DickyT]

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

Next time you spend $500 to travel across country, and get judged by someone that's never read the rules you may feel differently.

Having said that it is a hobby that we do for fun, and that's why testing and/or certification will be a VOLUNTARY program.

So far everyone that has taken the sample TEST...loved it, and asked me to send the full test ASAP.

The guys that have the BALLS to step up want to be good judges, so they are not scared to take a test that makes them better

I've enjoyed the testing process so far and am looking forward to more

Keep up the great work Fish and everyone else that is putting this learning program together for those of us that are interested.

ECC will be the first large event I judge at, without the "testing program" which I consider more of a learning program I would have never felt comfortable volunteering to judge on the national level since I have never done it on that level before.

The tests and discussions I have had with Fish have really raised my confidence that I will be able to do a good and fair job on a larger scale than local.

[JeremyH]

Where do we find the sample test? I'd like to see the areas in which I am lacking....

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

Where do we find the sample test? I'd like to see the areas in which I am lacking....

I will send you a copy......just making sure the test is correct BEFORE general release.

I took a chance with ECC judges since its my event that way if I screwed up I can fix it.

Don't want the test giving out bad info for others to deal with

[binaryterror]

I'm personally less worried about a list of "approved judges" than great marshalls. Judges come and go as this is a hobby, not a paying career.

I've been to big comps with great judges, good judges, and poor judges. But every event has always had great marshalls to make sure the judges are on point and the drivers have fewer questions or concerns. When they do have concerns the marshalls always set an agreeable solution and keep the event on track and fun.

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

I will send you a copy......just making sure the test is correct BEFORE general release.

Thanks!

[Del Montess]

I agree with Parker x eleventybillion.

I only judge because I have a blast doing it and it helps out. If I have to start doing a resume and proving that I'm good enough beyond doing a good job, I'll stop. I strive to do my best because I want to, not because I need to prove something, when it becomes less fun is when I stop doing it.

we should strive to control the human errors in a way that doesn't suck, and accept them with a laugh when they do happen.
this is a sport/hobby that unlike its brethren is still fun, friendly, and most importantly: not cutthroat.
but every day, more and more, it rotates in that direction. this is inevitable with big payouts for winning, and sponsorships becoming better and better, but the human factor should be stronger than both of those in keeping it from getting there.
the second we start eliminating the human factor by trying to completely eliminate human error is when we become just like racing.

Judges will make mistakes, but judges also make the course.
I don't know how many times I've heard a competitor walk off a course happy about their score, but still overall unhappy with their run because the judge sucked and made it an irritating and ultimately pissed-off experience.
I've also heard drivers come off course unhappy about their score, but still smiling and laughing because they had a blast running it, even if a marshall had to be called over.

cliffs:
judging needs to be fun, not a pain in the ass.
judge retention will go up, driver fun will go up
judges make this sport stay awesome.

[Cruzin Illusion]

Originally Posted by Del Montess

I agree with Parker x eleventybillion.

I only judge because I have a blast doing it and it helps out. If I have to start doing a resume and proving that I'm good enough beyond doing a good job, I'll stop. I strive to do my best because I want to, not because I need to prove something, when it becomes less fun is when I stop doing it.

we should strive to control the human errors in a way that doesn't suck, and accept them with a laugh when they do happen.
this is a sport/hobby that unlike its brethren is still fun, friendly, and most importantly: not cutthroat.
but every day, more and more, it rotates in that direction. this is inevitable with big payouts for winning, and sponsorships becoming better and better, but the human factor should be stronger than both of those in keeping it from getting there.
the second we start eliminating the human factor by trying to completely eliminate human error is when we become just like racing.

Judges will make mistakes, but judges also make the course.
I don't know how many times I've heard a competitor walk off a course happy about their score, but still overall unhappy with their run because the judge sucked and made it an irritating and ultimately pissed-off experience.
I've also heard drivers come off course unhappy about their score, but still smiling and laughing because they had a blast running it, even if a marshall had to be called over.

cliffs:
judging needs to be fun, not a pain in the ass.
judge retention will go up, driver fun will go up
judges make this sport stay awesome.

I completely agree with you, but I don't think that this is about human error when judging. I completely agree we are all human and calls will be missed. I think this is about judges not knowing the rules and a driver getting a call either good or bad because the rules were just not known. The test will just make sure that judge knows the rules so everyone is basically on a level playing field and to make sure some enexpected call does not come up because that is the way we do it at home. I think if the rules are followed then comping is more fun than having people complain about the judging. I agree if I have a bad run but it was called fairly it is more fun than a good run with horrible judging.

[sococrawler]

wow, all ican say is there is alot of infifferances out there where we comp and who we comp with, i have been to a couple different "usrcca" recognized clubs and they have a vie for getting the nat invite for one of their driver's and the guy's they have judge don't have a single clue as to judging except for "reverse" and gate!
the main reason i was asking if we have recognized judges was to help these clubs and have qualified judges for the big comps so the best driver actually get's the invite instead of someone who did not deserve it, point in case "who's the best in the nation for 2010"? and was this driver judged fairly? or did he have a bystander that was asked to fill in?

also the "spotter" IMO should not be allowed at a national or equivelant level, as that driver who is driving has had all day or an hour, it does'nt matter how long! he/she has had time to look over their course and better know where the gate is and how to get there!

I love this sport and have friends and enemies pretty much wherever we go, some made that comp or from before, but i judge everyone the same and people who know me and who have seen me judge they can attest to that, yes i have made some poor calls/decisions, but i have never gone back on a call! and never will!

oh yeah and to parker!
dream on hooker dream the "F" on and see ya sat bud!

[chasinbaja]

Originally Posted by Del Montess

I agree with Parker x eleventybillion.

I only judge because I have a blast doing it and it helps out. If I have to start doing a resume and proving that I'm good enough beyond doing a good job, I'll stop. I strive to do my best because I want to, not because I need to prove something, when it becomes less fun is when I stop doing it.

cliffs:
judging needs to be fun, not a pain in the ass.
judge retention will go up, driver fun will go up
judges make this sport stay awesome.

Jess, you couldnt have said it better!!! When judges like you stop judging because they arent having fun, our hobby is in trouble!

If taking a "test" makes a judge or organizer feel better about their judging ability, great. I dont see a problem with a voluntary testing program and i have no problem taking a "test" on the rules and judging!

So if you want to question me having testicles or not fish, knock yourself out!!! I am confident with my ability as a judge and a person and dont need a "title" or "qualification" to do what i love. When and if i DO need that, i will step down. I learned the rules and judging by one of the best in the nation, and I still learn something everytime i step on course either judging or driving!

Randy, i agree that there are judges (and clubs) that need to learn more about the rules! There are a lot of drivers that need to learn the rules also, it would definitly make our jobs easier! Maybe we should make drivers take a test as well.

I will keep calling my own penalties and take the judging out of it!!!

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by chasinbaja

So if you want to question me having testicles or not fish, knock yourself out!!!

Where do you get that? Only the first sentence was directed at you The last sentence was clearly PRAISING those that step up at big events.

I have said numerous times the program will be voluntary, and based on the POSITIVE responses I've gotten in PM's we are on the right track.

[chasinbaja]

My bad Fish, when you quoted my post i thought you targeted me with your response. I believe i was at the same event you are speaking of and saw more questionable calls then i ever want to see again!

I have heard good things about your test and eagerly await being able to take it.

I just dont know if it is the answer but at least it is a step in the right direction. Someone can know the rules better than anybody and still be a bad judge!

[Super]

Originally Posted by sococrawler

also the "spotter" IMO should not be allowed at a national or equivelant level, as that driver who is driving has had all day or an hour, it does'nt matter how long! he/she has had time to look over their course and better know where the gate is and how to get there!

In certain instances a spotter is necessary. There is a person in my club that is national caliber but has vision problems and has to take the course one gate at a time and needs someone to point out the next gate and ones near his feet as not to step on them. As for most people, I agree, there should not be spotters.

[TURTLE]

Originally Posted by Super

In certain instances a spotter is necessary. There is a person in my club that is national caliber but has vision problems and has to take the course one gate at a time and needs someone to point out the next gate and ones near his feet as not to step on them. As for most people, I agree, there should not be spotters.

Don't forget about the Japanese guys...

What we need are bilingual judges at nationals!

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by TURTLE

Don't forget about the Japanese guys...

What we need are bilingual judges at nationals!

I've had contact Swiss, Germans, and Aussie Drivers interested in attending 2011!