Legal Body Panels Help Guide and Disscussion

[binaryterror]

Originally Posted by BC-Brian

So I played with the Vac table last night and came up with something else.

This is "060 Delrin. I cut out the roof, hood, sides, windows etc. I will mount body panels over the openings. It will be mounted at the upper links and the front and rear shocks, (total 8 fasteners).

Have we still got a body...?

Lets see, cab vs. this.

Cab:
Bolts on to low frame at multiple point
Must be supportive
Appear to look like a real truck (though this is being stretched with chassis for some time)
Look somewhat like a Tube built truck

Your new design:
I think hits most of those, problem being it still looks like a body with cut outs, as it appears to have far too much covered pieces to resemble a tuber with panels added. What you have looks like a Body with holes in it, then panels added that have no need to be there but to sidestep a controversy. This is similar to what some body guys have done to cut weight, they still have to run bodied specs.

[C*H*U*D]

Originally Posted by Olle P

The thing is that it does support the stress imposed if/when the vehicle is rolling over. (By comparison: What stress do the roof bars in more traditional designs support while the vehicle is flat and level?)
And it's there to (also) shape the upper part of the structure.
Hence it's an integrated part of the overall structure.

You have to know the origin of that clause, and why it was put into the rules to understand what I'm talking about.

[JohnRobHolmes]

Originally Posted by krawlfreak

or a rollover




so what happens when someone comes up with a cab mounted on springs so it intentionally folds under pressure and returns to required dimensions when pressure is released?

it would be structructural and it would fit inside the rules

we dont need any new rules or test procedures to limit design. seems a clarified definition of a body is all that would be needed to satisfy both sides of this issue.

If it springs away too much the vehicle would be out of tech during the run. If the cab folds too much it will make rollovers a lot harder.

Originally Posted by BC-Brian

So I played with the Vac table last night and came up with something else.

This is "060 Delrin. I cut out the roof, hood, sides, windows etc. I will mount body panels over the openings. It will be mounted at the upper links and the front and rear shocks, (total 8 fasteners).

Have we still got a body...?

Sorry to beat a dead horse but we might as well answer all these questions while we are talking about it.

Still looks like it has a hood and door panels. If you chopped it up to the window line and removed the front hood section it would look like a cab.

[JohnRobHolmes]

Like this and it would be a cab, if we define a body as having a hood and doors.

[binaryterror]

I like John's mods the best as fitting.

[BC-Brian]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

Like this and it would be a cab, if we define a body as having a hood and doors.

That was the next question. I was going to do that and take pictures but it got late and I passed out : p

[DickyT]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

Like this and it would be a cab, if we define a body as having a hood and doors.

Is 'and' the qualifier here? Take the Viper and Viper II cabs. The "hood" was part of the upper chassis, but had no "doors". those would be the lower plates.

I really like the definition of body as it has evolved in this thread. That definition makes this illegal:



If this remains legal, then Brian could keep his hood, and just lose the doors.

[BC-Brian]

Originally Posted by DickyT

Is 'and' the qualifier here? Take the Viper and Viper II cabs. The "hood" was part of the upper chassis, but had no "doors". those would be the lower plates.

I really like the definition of body as it has evolved in this thread. That definition makes this illegal:



If this remains legal, then Brian could keep his hood, and just lose the doors.

This is an interesting question. I would essentially cut the piece below the windows, keep the hood and roof, ditch the side panels.

I am going to play around with it this weekend and we will see what "looks right".

[DickyT]

Originally Posted by BC-Brian

This is an interesting question. I would essentially cut the piece below the windows, keep the hood and roof, ditch the side panels.

I am going to play around with it this weekend and we will see what "looks right".

Look forward to seeing it! "And" needs to be the qualifier in that sentence if the top I pictured would remain legal.

If not, c'est la vie, it would not be the 1st chassis UGC lost to a rules change. R.I.P. Fastback and FB II for anything outside of local competition that allows bodiless in it's shafty class.

[Speedracer19]

Originally Posted by BC-Brian

This is an interesting question. I would essentially cut the piece below the windows, keep the hood and roof, ditch the side panels.

I am going to play around with it this weekend and we will see what "looks right".

You need to separate the hood from the cab & add side panels to the chassis.

▪ 2.1.5.1 - Bodiless vehicles must have solid hood panel, solid roof panel and a minimum of 2 solid side-panels.


▪ 2.1.5.1.1 - Hood, roof and side panels must be separate pieces of solid material installed onto the bodiless vehicle frame.


▪ 2.1.5.1.2 - All body panels are to be separate pieces from the complete structural frame.

It's not that hard.
You have a great idea of molding the material, just make it 3 separate items. Then get a vendor star & sell them.

[DickyT]

Originally Posted by Speedracer19

You need to separate the hood from the cab & add side panels to the chassis.

▪ 2.1.5.1 - Bodiless vehicles must have solid hood panel, solid roof panel and a minimum of 2 solid side-panels.


▪ 2.1.5.1.1 - Hood, roof and side panels must be separate pieces of solid material installed onto the bodiless vehicle frame.


▪ 2.1.5.1.2 - All body panels are to be separate pieces from the complete structural frame.

It's not that hard.
You have a great idea of molding the material, just make it 3 separate items. Then get a vendor star & sell them.

Why need to separate the hood from the cab, or are we outlawing the Viper series? I feel bad for Juan if so, he recently cut what will be the last batch, and will be out some cash.

Would a cut out in the hood of what he has, that required a body panel of 3.5 square inches of exposed material with at least 1" at two different places suffice?

[Speedracer19]

Originally Posted by DickyT

Why need to separate the hood from the cab, or are we outlawing the Viper series? I feel bad for Juan if so, he recently cut what will be the last batch, and will be out some cash.

Would a cut out in the hood of what he has, that required a body panel of 3.5 square inches of exposed material with at least 1" at two different places suffice?

What i'm trying to get across is what the nose of the Viper has on it, A F,ING HOOD! you know it fills that space between the R.H. & L.H. frame/cab rails. You made it out of Lexan, mine is made out of Delrin. I'm not saying the two outer spar's that make the nose on the cab have to be loped off.

The rules have not changed since you guys have cut the first chassis.

[JohnRobHolmes]

▪ 2.1.5.1.1 - Hood, roof and side panels must be separate pieces of solid material installed onto the bodiless vehicle frame.

It does not specify that the cab cannot be part of the frame, and it looks like Juan's cab is integral to the frame. Rules haven't been changed yet.

[DickyT]

Originally Posted by Speedracer19

What i'm trying to get across is what the nose of the Viper has on it, A F,ING HOOD! you know it fills that space between the R.H. & L.H. frame/cab rails. You made it out of Lexan, mine is made out of Delrin. I'm not saying the two outer spar's that make the nose on the cab have to be loped off.

The rules have not changed since you guys have cut the first chassis.

You know I can be pretty dense...

My interpretation of

Originally Posted by Speedracer19

You need to separate the hood from the cab

With a going forward (not current) redefining of what a body is, which has been greatly identified in this thread, would make the Viper series illegal.

This was not a complaint if that happened, just a clarification for the unintelligent ones on the community (me)... and to help Brian with some insight into what he is trying.

[DickyT]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

it looks like Juan's cab is integral to the frame.

Very much so, no way to mount the front shocks otherwise.

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

Rules haven't been changed yet.

Understood. I figured we were talking hypotheticals, so I brought up something that crossed my feeble mind.

[JohnRobHolmes]

Since this has gone in the direction that the "cab" is not considered part of the frame unless structurally needed, I would consider Juan's cab to be part of the frame because of the shock mounts. Therefore he can mount panels on it and be legal.


So that brings up the question of whether Brians cab would be legal if he drilled shock mounts or link mounts into it.


It will really boil down to how they define a body and whether they can define instances where cab is "not frame". If "body" is cab, hood, and doors- I would assume that you could hack off just the doors or just the hood and make the "body" a cab.

[ROCKEDUP RICKY]

Is the plan to put a skid on this, then bolt links and shocks on to that. Is a formed chassis the goal.

[Speedracer19]

Mold a skid to it & it would be a Uni-Body.

Maybe the first one i have ever seen.

2.1.6 - Unibody – Constructed of a single piece of solid material (fiberglass, aluminum, plastic, etc) and


must be self supporting. A Unibody cannot be fastened together in any nonpermanent way such as, nuts &


bolts, pins, rivets, zip ties, etc. The roof must be raised from the main chassis to resemble a cockpit and

should resemble a 1:1 vehicle. Unibody vehicles run the same minimum dimensions as bodiless.

[TSK]

Originally Posted by ROCKEDUP RICKY

Is the plan to put a skid on this, then bolt links and shocks on to that. Is a formed chassis the goal.

If a skid was formed & fully integrated (i.e. NOT bolted on) to that, I'd consider that a unibody.

If a skid were to be bolted to that, then I'd think it'd require the shocks or upper links to be mounted directly to it, as well as the 4 body panels, for it to be consider a bodiless chassis.

If all the suspension/linkage pickups are secure to another "frame/chassis/structure" I'd consider this to be an iout of spec 2.2 class boded rig

[Speedracer19]

Originally Posted by TheSCorpionKing

I'd like to know who is gonna strong arm the body manufacturers into making smaller comp specific bodies for what is still a just a small blip of a segment in the RC universe.

Me too.