Go Back   RCCrawler Forums > Competitions and Events > WRCCA > WRCCA Rules
Loading

Notices

Thread: Flexible top chassis

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-25-2016, 04:05 AM   #1
Pebble Pounder
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Le Mas Petit 81 France
Posts: 189
Default Flexible top chassis

Hi!

I would like to build a flexible top chassis which bend when rollover, then recover its initial shape after.

for example:


My question is: can we have the upper part of the chassis that is flexible?
Because windscreen height and total height can change with the flexible shape.

Thank you for answer
tgenial58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 05-25-2016, 06:22 AM   #2
Custom Carbon Fiber
 
Robbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Connecticut :(
Posts: 4,501
Default Re: Flexible top chassis

I would think that would make it out of spec when rolled over .....

Same principle for when they changed the wheelbase to being measured at full compression. People built trucks to measure 12.5'' at ride ready but when they used their dig it could stretch the truck past 12.5 bringing it out of spec.
Robbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2016, 12:27 AM   #3
RCC Addict
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Folsom
Posts: 1,867
Default Re: Flexible top chassis

The real qustion would be what would make the cab go back to original spec height after getting back on your wheels? Can you guarantee that it would go back.

If you cant guarantee it than any time you get back on your wheels youd have to stop time spec check your car. If it doesnt meet spec. You could get a DNF, or if the judge is nice you take a touch and repair it under time until it meets spec.

Last edited by Curcal; 05-26-2016 at 12:37 AM.
Curcal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2016, 01:19 AM   #4
Pebble Pounder
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Le Mas Petit 81 France
Posts: 189
Default Re: Flexible top chassis

the roof is at limits of rules, of course, and it bends when pressure is applied.
After that, it takes his original shape. Delrin keeps shape
tgenial58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2016, 06:52 AM   #5
Custom Carbon Fiber
 
Robbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Connecticut :(
Posts: 4,501
Default Re: Flexible top chassis

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgenial58 View Post
the roof is at limits of rules, of course, and it bends when pressure is applied.
After that, it takes his original shape. Delrin keeps shape

Quote:
▪ 2.3.6 -Vehicle body/ bodiless measurements must be greater than or equal to 8" overall length, 3" overall width, and 3" overall height.

Would it still meet the 3'' overall height part of the rule even when pressure is applied?


Interpreting this rule I think would make it illegal -

Quote:
3.10 - Changing Vehicle Specs (On Course): The vehicle must run a course entirely with the same wheelbase, track width, ride height, and tires it started that course with. Any changes to the vehicle (other than winching down the suspension or forced articulation) by the driver, another person, or any device, while on the course are prohibited.

Last edited by Robbob; 05-26-2016 at 06:57 AM.
Robbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2016, 08:54 AM   #6
I wanna be Dave
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: here
Posts: 3,025
Default Re: Flexible top chassis



Imo, if the only part of cab was flexible was the top arch, making sure the front top of cab cross brace and windshield area is rigid and never came out of vehicle specs. It would be legal.

To be edited with usrcca rules..
I belive there's a 1" height requirement on the cab

▪ 2.1.4 - The vehicle's roof must be raised a minimum of 1” from the main chassis to resemble a cockpit. The frame sides must be an overall minimum of 1” tall (The cockpit & frame side are to be measured vertically from where the hood intersects the cab).

.▪ 2.1.7 - Vehicles body/ bodiless measurements must reach a minimum of (A) width, (B) length, and (C) height. Measurements may include, but not limited to bumpers, stingers, frame-rails, side-rails, skid plates, roof, hood, and side panels.See Illustration B.



A. 3" B. 8" c. 3"

Insure you meet these 2 vehicle specs at all times and you'll be fine.
IMO..

This is the rule that makes me unsure..
3.10 - Changing Vehicle Specs (On Course): The vehicle must run a course entirely with the same wheelbase, track width, ride height, and tires it started that course with. Any changes to the vehicle (other than winching down the suspension or forced articulation) by the driver, another person, or any device, while on the course are prohibited.

with the cab being able to be 1" high minimum, running a flexible cab that could come out of vehicle specs or bust. In return you'll receive dnf on said course, I don't see how a flexible cab is a benefit.

Last edited by tapped-out; 05-26-2016 at 09:27 AM.
tapped-out is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2016, 03:57 PM   #7
I wanna be Dave
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: EvilCrawlerDesigns@comcast.net
Posts: 3,511
Default Re: Flexible top chassis

Any material can flex with enough pressure. Therefore, my interpretation of the rules is that as long as it meets requirements under a tech inspection, then it's legal. However, if it does not return to spec, the judge is within his rights to stop time and measure the vehicle. If it's out of spec, you're done and you forfeit the course. You decide if it's worth the risk.
EvilTwin v2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2016, 08:12 PM   #8
Custom Carbon Fiber
 
Robbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Connecticut :(
Posts: 4,501
Default Re: Flexible top chassis

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilTwin v2 View Post
Any material can flex with enough pressure. Therefore, my interpretation of the rules is that as long as it meets requirements under a tech inspection, then it's legal. However, if it does not return to spec, the judge is within his rights to stop time and measure the vehicle. If it's out of spec, you're done and you forfeit the course. You decide if it's worth the risk.


Still leaves a grey area to exploit ..... I as a judge would call it.
Robbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2016, 08:21 PM   #9
I wanna be Dave
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: EvilCrawlerDesigns@comcast.net
Posts: 3,511
Default Re: Flexible top chassis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbob View Post
Still leaves a grey area to exploit ..... I as a judge would call it.
Honestly, as a judge, I'd probably tech it after every course. Delrin only returns to its original shape so many times before it breaks.
EvilTwin v2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2016, 08:09 AM   #10
Wanna get? Gotta want.
 
Erik D_lux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SLC, UT
Posts: 7,053
Default Re: Flexible top chassis

Quote:
▪ 1.4.4 - Vehicle Out of Spec: If the Judge has reason to believe a vehicle is out of spec during a course run, he may call time to stop. At that point no additional inputs may be given by the driver to the vehicle via touch or radio control. The Judge must mark the vehicle’s location and perform a tech inspection in the specified tech area (same manner as all other tech inspections). If the vehicle has been deemed within spec, the driver and vehicle will return to the location marked by the judge and the clock will start once again. If the vehicle is now out of spec and the Judge has determined that the vehicle has gained an advantage, the driver must take a repair (see rule 1.4.3) to correct the problem. If the problem can not be corrected to bring the vehicle back within spec, the driver will receive a DNF for that course (see rule 1.8 ). If a vehicle falls out of spec due to breakage on course and the Judge determines the driver has not gained an advantage, then the driver may be allowed to continue on course without stopping time and requiring a tech inspection. Bodies, and body panels are not included in this exception, and must be replaced immediately, standard repair procedures and penalties apply.
Looks like its legal to me?

The wording is weird at the end and I can read it both ways that says you need to replace your body on course or it does not matter.

Last edited by Erik D_lux; 06-02-2016 at 08:14 AM.
Erik D_lux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2016, 09:07 PM   #11
RCC Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 1,489
Default Re: Flexible top chassis

Looks fairly straight forward to me. In this case, if the body breaks or is out of spec, then it needs to be attended to immediately and normal repair penalties apply.
Solitaire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2016, 11:54 PM   #12
RCC Addict
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Folsom
Posts: 1,867
Default Re: Flexible top chassis

As a judge.... and i had to tech this every time you had to roll over. I would be very very strict on the measurements out of purely being annoyed.
Curcal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2016, 12:40 AM   #13
Quarry Creeper
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: france
Posts: 223
Default Re: Flexible top chassis

hi,
i use this kind of top cab since three years now on my Ventru chassi.

my idea is just to make it flexible enought to flex and not break on a big crash.

so if you push hard on it he go down and go back up.
but on roll over there is no effect on it, it stay in the frame.


Last edited by pat13; 06-03-2016 at 07:34 AM.
pat13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2016, 10:30 AM   #14
No idea what I'm doing
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Underground, CO
Posts: 4,533
Default Re: Flexible top chassis

▪ 1.4.4 - Vehicle Out of Spec: If the Judge has reason to believe a vehicle is out of spec during a course run, he may call time to stop. At that point no additional inputs may be given by the driver to the vehicle via touch or radio control. The Judge must mark the vehicle’s location and perform a tech inspection in the specified tech area (same manner as all other tech inspections). If the vehicle has been deemed within spec, the driver and vehicle will return to the location marked by the judge and the clock will start once again.



Regardless of whether the vehicle is on it's wheels or on it's roof, it must remain within spec. As soon as a flexible top is flipped and compressed, it is out of spec which triggers the option for the judge to call time, mark the location and perform an inspection in the tech area.

Basically if the judge wanted to be an ass (and having to deal with a vehicle that was constantly going out of spec, I wouldn't blame them) they could call time whenever the vehicle is on it's roof. This would negate any attempts of trying to recover on your own.

I would think this alone would make a flexible top a no-go, but I'm not a rules person. If I was, I'd vote that any feature that knowingly puts your vehicle out of spec while on course should be illegal.
C*H*U*D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2016, 10:51 AM   #15
Pebble Pounder
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Bavaria / Germany
Posts: 193
Default Re: Flexible top chassis

The problem is: when the car is in the tech-area,everything is OK (the flexible top is in itīs normal position). But when the car is on itīs roof,it is out of spec. My thoughts are: the car should always be in correct spec,not only in the tech-area. But itīs a question how to read the rules....
Snatch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2016, 11:07 AM   #16
Custom Carbon Fiber
 
Robbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Connecticut :(
Posts: 4,501
Default Re: Flexible top chassis

  • 3.10 - Changing Vehicle Specs (On Course): The vehicle must run a course entirely with the same wheelbase, track width, ride height, and tires it started that course with. Any changes to the vehicle (other than winching down the suspension or forced articulation) by the driver, another person, or any device, while on the course are prohibited.
▪ 1.4.4 - Vehicle Out of Spec: If the Judge has reason to believe a vehicle is out of spec during a course run, he may call time to stop. At that point no additional inputs may be given by the driver to the vehicle via touch or radio control. The Judge must mark the vehicle’s location and perform a tech inspection in the specified tech area (same manner as all other tech inspections). If the vehicle has been deemed within spec, the driver and vehicle will return to the location marked by the judge and the clock will start once again. If the vehicle is now out of spec and the Judge has determined that the vehicle has gained an advantage, the driver must take a repair (see rule 1.4.3) to correct the problem. If the problem can not be corrected to bring the vehicle back within spec, the driver will receive a DNF for that course (see rule 1.8 ). If a vehicle falls out of spec due to breakage on course and the Judge determines the driver has not gained an advantage, then the driver may be allowed to continue on course without stopping time and requiring a tech inspection. Bodies, and body panels are not included in this exception, and must be replaced immediately, standard repair procedures and penalties apply.


Would you make a driver put his body back on if it fell off his 2.2S truck or would you let him continue the course?

I would call it the truck is its own device - when upside down caused it to fall out of spec and the driver can gain an advantage.


1.2 Back
Up/ Reverse: (1 pt)
Point is given when a vehicle reverses course after making forward progress.

Reversing is defined as any of the tires moving in the reverse direction, whether engaged or in freewheel
and/or whether intentional or not. Once a reverse penalty is given, no further reverse penalty can be given until
the vehicle makes forward progress. No penalty is given if the backward movement occurs while the vehicle is
in the rollover position. (See Sec. 6 Rollover Position) If a driver begins a course in reverse, a reverse penalty
will occur immediately. (See Reverse examples and explanations Sec. 7)



Last edited by Robbob; 06-03-2016 at 11:41 AM.
Robbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2016, 02:16 PM   #17
No idea what I'm doing
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Underground, CO
Posts: 4,533
Default Re: Flexible top chassis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snatch View Post
...My thoughts are: the car should always be in correct spec,not only in the tech-area. But itīs a question how to read the rules....
I agree with you. That's why I included the last sentence about "knowingly" going out of spec on course. If you know your vehicle will go out of spec, then you should take the necessary precautions to prevent it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbob View Post

...Would you make a driver put his body back on if it fell off his 2.2S truck or would you let him continue the course?



And these are just my opinions. I know a lot of people love to look for loopholes in the rules, and this is a good one. Hopefully someone makes a good judgement call on it.
C*H*U*D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2016, 05:43 PM   #18
RCP CRAWLERS
 
ZoSo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Upland CA
Posts: 1,540
Default Re: Flexible top chassis

so when a lexan body distorts out of spec than pops back into shape...the driver should be penalized?
ZoSo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2016, 11:30 PM   #19
RCC Addict
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Folsom
Posts: 1,867
Default Re: Flexible top chassis

You make a good point Zoso, but the lexan body out of shape doesn't necessarily provide an advantage. If the cap collapes under the weight of the car he can effectively drive it upsidedown, providing (at least perceived) advantage....
Curcal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2016, 06:27 AM   #20
Custom Carbon Fiber
 
Robbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Connecticut :(
Posts: 4,501
Default Re: Flexible top chassis

Valid point Zoso.


What lexan body when mounted could lay virtually flat giving the same advantage?
Robbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Flexible top chassis - Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
how flexible is your cc01? tempo3010 Tamiya XC/CC01 8 04-26-2014 05:26 AM
flexible girl dancer PEDEcrawlerguy Chit Chat 17 03-18-2008 11:05 PM
Flexible 6th Scale Trucks Women & Beer Traxxas Crawlers 14 07-23-2007 11:47 PM
flexible driveshaft maybe ? murdock Chit Chat 5 07-15-2006 10:57 PM
flexible drive shafts? mike General Crawlers 29 02-26-2005 10:31 PM
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2004-2014 RCCrawler.com