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Usrcca "judges"
- Thread starter sococrawler
- Start date
rock hard
dnf
You boys in Arkansas only got one thing on us Texas boys.
You are a hell of alot better than us Texans at using dynomite to leval a pad.
I'm still a learnin. :ror:What are you gonna teach him anyway?
You know it.:ror:
You know it.:ror:
JeremyH
I wanna be Dave
Yep. Just like if those Arkies found out you were really from Commiefornia..."thumbsup"
rock hard
dnf
PaloAltoK5
RCC Addict
Well, back on topic....silly rednecks...
I for one like to Judge, and have had a blast doing it everytime I have.
I for one like to Judge, and have had a blast doing it everytime I have.
Cruzin Illusion
Keep Crawling in Crawling
I think there should be a test. I also think at big events there should be a required judges meeting that you MUST attend and all the rules are covered. I have noticed people interpet the rules from how they are run at their local events, which sometimes are not correct. Just because people judge doesn't always mean they know the rules per USRCCA.
I would also like to see a rule implemented, at National qualifying events, that judges do not talk to the driver unless a question is asked, penalties, and or time. The judge is not their to make suggestive comments, stupid comentary, or spot for a driver on course. At that level a driver should already have picked his/her spotter and/or know the course and how to drive it.
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Cruzin Illusion
Keep Crawling in Crawling
TURTLE
Gettin’ back on the horse
So make it as little fun to judge as possible?
Why does it have to be so serious Tom? This is about fun.
rock hard
dnf
Originally Posted by rock hard
So if judges are tested
would they be required to retest each season,or as rules change?
I say they should be. This way they will know of any changes to the rules.
I repect your opinion,and reasoning,yet see no need.The responsability,decision of who is used should rest upon the organizer IMO.
Would all judges have to take the test to be elligable to judge?
I think they should. Just because someone volunteers doesn't mean they know the rules. There needs to be a way to assure you are getting quality judges at big events.
I will say I know the rules fairly well,I know many disagree with the way I
called the crack ar nationals.Test or no test,I called that crack accourding to the rules.Thats the importance of marshalls walking the course with the judges.Going over possible issues and addressing them in advance.
So judges call it the way the marshall wishes.
If they do have to be elligable,and the last minute you need a judge for whatever reason,will you not be able to take any able body who steeped
up to voluteer?
I say no unless they take the test and attend a required judges meeting prior to the event starting.
Same as 1st above,I respect your opinion and basis for reasoning.However
if the organizer/marshall should not have thier hand tied in any way.IMO
My opinion,event organizer rules the roost at that event.
I wouldnt want an organizer to need to motivate people to get qualified
so they can sign up to judge.
I don't think it is to much to ask for those who want to judge to take an online test prior to showing up to an event. They get their entry free, they should take the 20 minutes to take the test.
20 minutes may not sound like much
At nationals I stepped up last minute to volunteer,courses was opening up and a long day was ahead. 20 minutes is alot at times like that IMO
A organizer should work with the marshalls though to be assured the judges are aware of rules.
I agree and I also think every judge must attend a mandatory meeting prior to the event starting. This will take all the confusion out of how certain optional rules are called for that event.
You know that organizers do thier best to get the judges on the same page
There will always be issues,we are human after all,and things dont alway go perfect.And on my course at nationals that wasnt an optional rule.Reverses simply counted in that situation,so I felt no need for clairafication.And called it the same all day,for everyone.
I would suggest that certain scenarios that are possible to play out on any given course are different,and marshalls may want to forsee to the best of thier ability,those problems that course may offer ahead of time with the judges on each course.
I completely agree. I think the marshalls for the event should walk the courses with the judges and try to figure out possible cinerios that will come with the course layout and try to have the rulings layed out prior to the first competitor running. Once a call is made one way it is tough to change the way the ruling is called for the other competitors.
common ground finally
Not everyone calls things the same,but if its called the same on that course
then whats the problem really.
The only problem I see is if the initial call does not fall within the USRCCA rules. Then the call will cause confusion with the competitors.
Not if they are aware before they start that course,I make sure drivers know how I'm calling it,just as you warned on 1.9 you would let no rollbacks slide
so we was all aware
Now take for example at nationals,I was informed any rolling backward accidental or not was a reverse.
So even if you rolled a small amount its a penalty.
There was one 1.9 course the judge was very strick about that.
the other courses wasnt.
This was covered in the drivers meeting for a lengthy time. I am the judge you are probably talking about. I made sure that the roll backs were called consistantly all day. In the judges meeting it was relayed to the judges that any rolling of the tires in the reverse direction, be it 1/8" or 1", it was a reverse.
everyone on each course was judged consistantly all day.
(except the repaire thing) So even great drivers who have been judging along time can screw up
As not every driver was made aware by those judges in advance that off course repair was an option on that course.
The off course repair ruling was made at the judges meeting. If the judges meeting was required that all judges attend then I believe this would have been a no issue.
At nationals there was judges meeting AIR I wasnt signed up as a judge so I didnt go to the meetings.I have no idea if said judges didnt attend the meeting.
I have been to comps and if you roll back a bit its not called if judge can see it was unintentional.If he has integrity,and calls everyone the same.
whats the issue.
The only issue I see is that there is no consistency between courses. AT a national qualifying or national event, I think any rollback attentional or unintentional should be called a reverse. I can see at local events were there are newer people or a comp that is not as competitive that you could be leaniant, but at a National level comp were one reverse could seperate you from another competitor it is a must call.
Each course was called consistant,thats good enough for me,we are not robots and there will be slight differences.
But keeping the same judges on kept judging consistant course to course
Now if a guys is doing what violater is mentioning,well thats an issue.
But if you call your buddies for every reverse just like you did me,
then I have myself have no reason to complain.
Always call it the same for everyone and you will never have the buddy issue.
__________________
I think that the best thing tto start doing is to have the marshalls walk the course with the judges prior
This is easy and would help alot,wouldnt take any skin off anyones back to do it.
So if judges are tested
would they be required to retest each season,or as rules change?
I say they should be. This way they will know of any changes to the rules.
I repect your opinion,and reasoning,yet see no need.The responsability,decision of who is used should rest upon the organizer IMO.
Would all judges have to take the test to be elligable to judge?
I think they should. Just because someone volunteers doesn't mean they know the rules. There needs to be a way to assure you are getting quality judges at big events.
I will say I know the rules fairly well,I know many disagree with the way I
called the crack ar nationals.Test or no test,I called that crack accourding to the rules.Thats the importance of marshalls walking the course with the judges.Going over possible issues and addressing them in advance.
So judges call it the way the marshall wishes.
If they do have to be elligable,and the last minute you need a judge for whatever reason,will you not be able to take any able body who steeped
up to voluteer?
I say no unless they take the test and attend a required judges meeting prior to the event starting.
Same as 1st above,I respect your opinion and basis for reasoning.However
if the organizer/marshall should not have thier hand tied in any way.IMO
My opinion,event organizer rules the roost at that event.
I wouldnt want an organizer to need to motivate people to get qualified
so they can sign up to judge.
I don't think it is to much to ask for those who want to judge to take an online test prior to showing up to an event. They get their entry free, they should take the 20 minutes to take the test.
20 minutes may not sound like much
At nationals I stepped up last minute to volunteer,courses was opening up and a long day was ahead. 20 minutes is alot at times like that IMO
A organizer should work with the marshalls though to be assured the judges are aware of rules.
I agree and I also think every judge must attend a mandatory meeting prior to the event starting. This will take all the confusion out of how certain optional rules are called for that event.
You know that organizers do thier best to get the judges on the same page
There will always be issues,we are human after all,and things dont alway go perfect.And on my course at nationals that wasnt an optional rule.Reverses simply counted in that situation,so I felt no need for clairafication.And called it the same all day,for everyone.
I would suggest that certain scenarios that are possible to play out on any given course are different,and marshalls may want to forsee to the best of thier ability,those problems that course may offer ahead of time with the judges on each course.
I completely agree. I think the marshalls for the event should walk the courses with the judges and try to figure out possible cinerios that will come with the course layout and try to have the rulings layed out prior to the first competitor running. Once a call is made one way it is tough to change the way the ruling is called for the other competitors.
common ground finally
Not everyone calls things the same,but if its called the same on that course
then whats the problem really.
The only problem I see is if the initial call does not fall within the USRCCA rules. Then the call will cause confusion with the competitors.
Not if they are aware before they start that course,I make sure drivers know how I'm calling it,just as you warned on 1.9 you would let no rollbacks slide
so we was all aware
Now take for example at nationals,I was informed any rolling backward accidental or not was a reverse.
So even if you rolled a small amount its a penalty.
There was one 1.9 course the judge was very strick about that.
the other courses wasnt.
This was covered in the drivers meeting for a lengthy time. I am the judge you are probably talking about. I made sure that the roll backs were called consistantly all day. In the judges meeting it was relayed to the judges that any rolling of the tires in the reverse direction, be it 1/8" or 1", it was a reverse.
everyone on each course was judged consistantly all day.
(except the repaire thing) So even great drivers who have been judging along time can screw up
As not every driver was made aware by those judges in advance that off course repair was an option on that course.
The off course repair ruling was made at the judges meeting. If the judges meeting was required that all judges attend then I believe this would have been a no issue.
At nationals there was judges meeting AIR I wasnt signed up as a judge so I didnt go to the meetings.I have no idea if said judges didnt attend the meeting.
I have been to comps and if you roll back a bit its not called if judge can see it was unintentional.If he has integrity,and calls everyone the same.
whats the issue.
The only issue I see is that there is no consistency between courses. AT a national qualifying or national event, I think any rollback attentional or unintentional should be called a reverse. I can see at local events were there are newer people or a comp that is not as competitive that you could be leaniant, but at a National level comp were one reverse could seperate you from another competitor it is a must call.
Each course was called consistant,thats good enough for me,we are not robots and there will be slight differences.
But keeping the same judges on kept judging consistant course to course
Now if a guys is doing what violater is mentioning,well thats an issue.
But if you call your buddies for every reverse just like you did me,
then I have myself have no reason to complain.
Always call it the same for everyone and you will never have the buddy issue.
__________________
I think that the best thing tto start doing is to have the marshalls walk the course with the judges prior
This is easy and would help alot,wouldnt take any skin off anyones back to do it.
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rock hard
dnf
We are all human,so whats the penalty for a judge who makes what you call stupid comentary???
Or what someone calls "suggestive"??
So whats next on the list,next season you must have instant replay at qualifiers???
Its a sport,judges make mistakes on the fieid,court all the time.Its a fact the most common error is human error.If you want no errors you got to have no humans involved.So as such,mistakes will be inevitable in all sports that require a judge/referee
DRIVNMF
I wanna be Dave
I've preached all year long from the first AWCCQ in SoCal, to take the judging out of your run. As a driver, you should know the rules.
I heard Fish say it best, if you put yourself in a position to have a judge make a call that could go either way, when the call goes against you, be mad at yourself, the judge isn't behind your controller.
Judges have a true passion for the sport and with out them, we don't have this thread, a comp, or a scape goat. IT'S A VOLUNTEER POSITION THAT A BEST NETS YOU FREE ENTRY, A LUNCH, AND IF YOUR LUCKY; A T-SHIRT!
Do judges see everything, HELL NO, If a judge is any kind of a judge at all, then he has missed something and learned from it to become a better judge, but when a judge has to jump thru hoops for a title to a volunteered postition, who is gonna judge.
Finding judges as an organizer keeps getting tougher, whether it's the local level or National level, fewer and fewer are willing to be put under the spot light of scrutiny because a driver feels its the judges responsibility to catch every penalty they may or may not of made.
DRIVERS, CALL YOUR OWN PENALTIES! You know when you hit a gate and when you reversed and YES, any time a tire spins in a reverse direction...it's a reverse. Twin stickers, if you can't control your rear end, mix it out or get called for a reverse.
It will make you a better driver. The judge will appreciate it. It will catch on and judging should be FUN! I don't agree with a judge telling a driver when, how, why, where, and what to do on a course. Your right Cruzin, but also, a driver shouldn't need a spotter either, if your at that level, drive YOUR truck, don't be a puppet.
I love each and everyone of the judges that have judged at an event that I have played any role in and I appreciate their hard work and dedication. I won't let a judge under my watch deal w/ ass hat drivers.
As a driver, you should be at a comp to throw down the lowest score you can and HAVE FUN! If your at a comp to see what you can get away with or how to exploit the grey areas of the rules, put your little truck in your big truck and go home.
Judges need to be consistant and it starts at the local level. Make the correct calls consistantly from the begining. Have judges meetings. It's never gonna be perfect, because we have the human element envolved, but use Fishes philosophy and call your own penalties and your comp experience will improve! "thumbsup"
I love ya, Soco, see ya Saturday AND your judging...
I heard Fish say it best, if you put yourself in a position to have a judge make a call that could go either way, when the call goes against you, be mad at yourself, the judge isn't behind your controller.
Judges have a true passion for the sport and with out them, we don't have this thread, a comp, or a scape goat. IT'S A VOLUNTEER POSITION THAT A BEST NETS YOU FREE ENTRY, A LUNCH, AND IF YOUR LUCKY; A T-SHIRT!
Do judges see everything, HELL NO, If a judge is any kind of a judge at all, then he has missed something and learned from it to become a better judge, but when a judge has to jump thru hoops for a title to a volunteered postition, who is gonna judge.
Finding judges as an organizer keeps getting tougher, whether it's the local level or National level, fewer and fewer are willing to be put under the spot light of scrutiny because a driver feels its the judges responsibility to catch every penalty they may or may not of made.
DRIVERS, CALL YOUR OWN PENALTIES! You know when you hit a gate and when you reversed and YES, any time a tire spins in a reverse direction...it's a reverse. Twin stickers, if you can't control your rear end, mix it out or get called for a reverse.
It will make you a better driver. The judge will appreciate it. It will catch on and judging should be FUN! I don't agree with a judge telling a driver when, how, why, where, and what to do on a course. Your right Cruzin, but also, a driver shouldn't need a spotter either, if your at that level, drive YOUR truck, don't be a puppet.
I love each and everyone of the judges that have judged at an event that I have played any role in and I appreciate their hard work and dedication. I won't let a judge under my watch deal w/ ass hat drivers.
As a driver, you should be at a comp to throw down the lowest score you can and HAVE FUN! If your at a comp to see what you can get away with or how to exploit the grey areas of the rules, put your little truck in your big truck and go home.
Judges need to be consistant and it starts at the local level. Make the correct calls consistantly from the begining. Have judges meetings. It's never gonna be perfect, because we have the human element envolved, but use Fishes philosophy and call your own penalties and your comp experience will improve! "thumbsup"
I love ya, Soco, see ya Saturday AND your judging...
I would agree more, but 100% is all I got."thumbsup"I've preached all year long from the first AWCCQ in SoCal, to take the judging out of your run. As a driver, you should know the rules.
I heard Fish say it best, if you put yourself in a position to have a judge make a call that could go either way, when the call goes against you, be mad at yourself, the judge isn't behind your controller.
Judges have a true passion for the sport and with out them, we don't have this thread, a comp, or a scape goat. IT'S A VOLUNTEER POSITION THAT A BEST NETS YOU FREE ENTRY, A LUNCH, AND IF YOUR LUCKY; A T-SHIRT!
Do judges see everything, HELL NO, If a judge is any kind of a judge at all, then he has missed something and learned from it to become a better judge, but when a judge has to jump thru hoops for a title to a volunteered postition, who is gonna judge.
Finding judges as an organizer keeps getting tougher, whether it's the local level or National level, fewer and fewer are willing to be put under the spot light of scrutiny because a driver feels its the judges responsibility to catch every penalty they may or may not of made.
DRIVERS, CALL YOUR OWN PENALTIES! You know when you hit a gate and when you reversed and YES, any time a tire spins in a reverse direction...it's a reverse. Twin stickers, if you can't control your rear end, mix it out or get called for a reverse.
It will make you a better driver. The judge will appreciate it. It will catch on and judging should be FUN! I don't agree with a judge telling a driver when, how, why, where, and what to do on a course. Your right Cruzin, but also, a driver shouldn't need a spotter either, if your at that level, drive YOUR truck, don't be a puppet.
I love each and everyone of the judges that have judged at an event that I have played any role in and I appreciate their hard work and dedication. I won't let a judge under my watch deal w/ ass hat drivers.
As a driver, you should be at a comp to throw down the lowest score you can and HAVE FUN! If your at a comp to see what you can get away with or how to exploit the grey areas of the rules, put your little truck in your big truck and go home.
Judges need to be consistant and it starts at the local level. Make the correct calls consistantly from the begining. Have judges meetings. It's never gonna be perfect, because we have the human element envolved, but use Fishes philosophy and call your own penalties and your comp experience will improve! "thumbsup"
I love ya, Soco, see ya Saturday AND your judging...
THnCS
Rock Crawler
Well Said Parker!!
slowrockr
I wanna be Dave
Wow, just read through this, what's happening to this hobby? :roll:
Appears some people over think things while others look for the grey area to get around things. :roll:
DrivnMF - Totally Agree, very well put. "thumbsup"
Our judges keep pretty silent except to call penalties, we dont allow coaching or suggestive remarks. We do allow spotters but the drivers have to declare them so the judge knows. It helps with keep possible conflicts down.
I enjoy judging and feel bad when it comes to my call in some cases but when its my turn to run I fully respect the calls made on me.
rock hard
dnf
Fishmaxx
I wanna be Dave
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Cruzin Illusion
Keep Crawling in Crawling
I made that comment because I have seen where judges comments have made a difference for a driver good and bad. What a judge says during a run should not help you with your decision on how you take a line or run a course. As for the stupid commentary, you should not have to hear an on going play by play or razzing when running the course you are on.
Let the driver drive and pick his or her own lines through a course. Sometimes a line someone elses sees that you don't maybe their advantage. Why should a judge point out a line another driver doesn't see. If you want everyone to run the same lines put boundries on both sides throughout the whole course.
As for spotters I agree with Parker. A driver should know how to drive his rig and know how to approach each gate. I think spotters are good to help you navigate from gate to gate so you do not spend a ton of time looking for gates. I don't know how many times I can watch the same course and when it is my turn I am asking wheres the next gate.
With scores being so close, I just think you should let the driver secide on who is better rather than a judge making a comment to help or hurt a driver.
