Side to side rear axle play

[powder4breakfast]

My rear axles have a lot of play side to side.

I am running:
- Axial stock AR60 plastic axle
- Axial stock rear axle shafts
- Vanquish 12mm hex with Axial 2x11mm pins
- Vanqush Lock-outs from Stage one kit
- Beef Tubes (Brass)

Look how far the shaft can move in:

The lock-out is being held where it would sit and the pin holes would be inside if they did not hit the outer ridge.

This has caused a groove in the lock-out where it rubs when moved in:

I have replaced the bearings with new. Then I tried shims on the shaft in between the outer shaft lip and outer bearing. This pushed the outer bearing out and kept the wheel from moving farther out; but, this did not fix the wheel and shaft from moving in causing further rubbing on the lock-out.

I imagine I could put like 10 - 16 shims in between the two bearings. This would put all the shims right inside of the lock-out. This would keep the shaft pulled out and inhibit inward movement that is causing the rubbing and grooving. I do feel that this is a band-aid.

The only idea that I can come up with is that when grinding down the inner lip (see right lip on this picture) that is closest to the diff/pumkin, as per instructions from Beef Tube, that the shaft now slides too far into the center... perhaps the lip previously inhibited that..? I do not know how all this RC axle stuff works... sorry:

That being said, I used a spinning method that wore down the lip evenly around the entire circumference. I only took just enough off for the shaft to slide in to the Beef Tube and not more. If this is the cause, then every other person with Beef Tubes would have the same issue as me. I could not have left more lip and slid the shaft in to the tube.

Here is a picture of the ground lip:

I have used the search function as well as google for this issue on Bombers and Yetis. I did not find any conclusive information. Can someone offer assistance that may explain both the cause and fix for what I am dealing with? Thank you for any help.

 

[shiftauto]

I had a similar issue with my driver side axle. I had the VP V2 housing and VP lockouts, not beef tubes though. I made a bushing that fit inside the locker where the shaft is supposed to slide in to get rid of the play. It worked but was only a temporary fix until I got my HD titanium shafts from creeper bob. My problem was only the driver side, is yours both sides? My problem was also on the yeti but both rigs use the same rearends...

 

[powder4breakfast]

The problem is definitely worse on the passenger side which is the longer axle side; but, there is play on both sides. The grooved lock-out is on the passenger side.

 

[84yoda]

Yes that inner lip is what holds the shaft from going in farther into the locker. I would think that tiny lip would still hold the shaft though. What you could do is install everything then add a few shims between outer bearing and the axle pin to help keep the hex from rubbing the lockout.

 

[powder4breakfast]

Yoda, if I understand your suggestion correctly, I tried shimming that way. It kept the wheel from being able to pull out but not in. The shims did not stop the shaft from sliding back in... the pins/hex are what finally hit keeping it from sliding in... thus causing the grooving. The only way to fix this via shimming between bearings would be to shim the entire shaft in between both bearings. And that would seem unnecessary considering I'm trying to fix stock parts.

So I just read page 18 of the Bomber manual which shows an exploded view of the rear axle. Looks like there is really nothing other than the locker keeping the shaft from sliding further in. I looked at the locker itself and due to the somewhat rectangular shape where the locker and shaft engage, the lip should have no bearing on how far in the shaft sits. Therefore, this should eliminate the grinding down of the lip to fit the Beef Tube as being a cause.

This means I am back to being very confused and not sure where to look. It seems like the next thought would be that I received (stock RTR) axle shafts that are too short. Has that ever happened?

Since I am using stock axles and shafts as well as locker etc. None of my other modifications should be affecting the length of the shaft; yet, it appears to be too short.

 

[84yoda]

Yoda, if I understand your suggestion correctly, I tried shimming that way. It kept the wheel from being able to pull out but not in.

No, it should stop it from going in and contacting the lockout.

Im runnin a SSD centered housing with VP currie centered shafts. The shafts have no inner lip to hold it back from going into locker more. I did exactly what I mentioned to you and it fixed my problem which is the same as yours (hex rubbing lockout). I put 1 shim (TRA1985) behind bearing to push bearing out then 3 shims (TRA1985) between bearing and axle pin. It worked for me.

 

[DowntownScience]

What's the locker look like? Any damage that would allow it to slide the ring in also? Is there still play with the stock lockouts?

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[blkbart00]

I have the same issue with my Yeti. I have Beef tubes and a Holmes locker. It really bugs me. I shimmed the outside by the pin but it still pushes in. Looking forward to someone coming up with a fix.

I'm going get a bomber kit when it comes out. I'm interested to see how the bone stock ones are. I'm also hesitant to make any upgrades to the stock ones if i means they will be sloppy.

 

[powder4breakfast]

No, it should stop it from going in and contacting the lockout.

Im runnin a SSD centered housing with VP currie centered shafts. The shafts have no inner lip to hold it back from going into locker more. I did exactly what I mentioned to you and it fixed my problem which is the same as yours (hex rubbing lockout). I put 1 shim (TRA1985) behind bearing to push bearing out then 3 shims (TRA1985) between bearing and axle pin. It worked for me.

The problem is that the lock-out only has a lip to keep the bearing from moving out toward the wheel. When I shim in the method you described, everything has pressure relative to the shaft. When everything is forced toward the inside, the bearing pops and moves toward the inside along with the shaft, and shims allowing the pin and hex to rub the lockout. If the shaft wasn't moving in, I could shim to keep the bearing in place. If the bearing was blocked, I could use it with shims to keep the shaft from moving in. Unfortunately, both move.

I just received a picture from someone from Axial:

This is not a bomber; but, it is an AR60. I believe the internals are flipped like on a Wraith. This is the short shaft side; but, being flipped, this would be the internals where my long shaft (passenger) is. Looks like the inner lip we discussed is supposed to hit the outside of the bearing or ring outside of the locker... not the locker itself.

Perhaps grinding down for Beef Tube made it so that it slides through this opening instead of stopping here. The fix would be a shim at this location; but, this would also mean that the outside of the axle would now be off-set outward by whatever the shim is inside. This is not a big deal; but, it should mean that others that have added a Beef Tube had to do something similar. I'm just trying to find out if that is the case or not. If that was the case, I would think this would be noted in the instructions from Beef Tube. Since it is not, I still have doubts as to this being the/an issue.

 

[powder4breakfast]

I have the same issue with my Yeti. I have Beef tubes and a Holmes locker. It really bugs me. I shimmed the outside by the pin but it still pushes in. Looking forward to someone coming up with a fix.

I'm going get a bomber kit when it comes out. I'm interested to see how the bone stock ones are. I'm also hesitant to make any upgrades to the stock ones if i means they will be sloppy.

Not good that you have the same issue; but, it's good to hear that someone else has the same issue... if you know what I mean. I hope to hear from others using Beef Tubes to help confirm that this may be the issue. If so, the fix would be a shim between the inside lip and the first thing it hits... which apparantly is not the locker... according to the help from Axial.

I would love if someone could confirm that as well... whether or not the lip bottoms out on the locker or something else.

Thank you for the replies and help so far.

 

[shiftauto]

What your looking & is actually part of the ring gear. It's the part of the ring gear that the bearing slides into and also acts as the stop for the axle shaft

 

[powder4breakfast]

Looks like we're getting somewhere. If anyone reading this has Beef Tubes in an AR60, please share if you had this issue or not.

While I'm at it, are there rear shafts I should be looking at as alternates/upgrades? I'm running a VP VVD V1-HD in the front where a change was necessary for tighter turning over the dog bones. Seems like the rear is not that big of a deal for slow non-basher crawling.

 

[shiftauto]

Have you compared the VP lockouts to the stock plastic axial ones your replacing to make sure they are the same lengths and nothing is different? I only ran into this problem when I replaced the lockouts.

 

[altd896]

Sounds like it's definitely a result of turning down the inner lip to clear the Beef tubes. Your right that lip seats against the spool/ring gear to limit movement inwards.

Could you fit an extra bearing in the end of the housing tube (same way as for front axle) & put a tube spacer over the axle, could be plastic or alloy.
You may have to slit the tube at the bearing end & pinch it closed slightly to fit behind the lip on the alxe.
This would keep the axle from sliding in from the outer bearing.

 

[DowntownScience]

Pull the locker and ring out and see how the shafts seat. Also check the vp lockouts against the stock. Is there a length difference? Do you have this problem with both lockouts? Either the lockouts are different lengths or the ring on the shafts are entering into the locker and ring.

Isn't there also AR60 "wide" lockouts that need to be run with a longer shaft? Could you possibly have gotten these instead? Does the axle shaft still engage when it's all the way out against the end of the lockout?

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[powder4breakfast]

Looks like a seating issue against the ring. Seems like easiest fix will be to shim there with one small shim to stop against the now smaller lip. Bought some washers to use.

My VP and stock lock-outs are the exact same size.

 

[DowntownScience]

Isn't the bearing supposed to go on the inside of the housing?

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[powder4breakfast]

Still interested if other Beef Tube users have this issue. If not, I'll buy another set of shafts and grind down again using a different method or something.

 

[powder4breakfast]

Isn't the bearing supposed to go on the inside of the housing?

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Where do you mean?

 

[DowntownScience]

In that first pic where you're holding the lockout over the axle. The bearing is shown on the outside of the lip. The bearing goes in first and slides into the axle housing. Then the shaft, then the lockout. The bearing should then stop it from sliding in to far.

Edit: nevermind I forgot about the second bearing. [emoji5]

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