Best First Upgrades - ECX Barrage

[Mancub]

Hey everyone, first time post.

Recently purchased an ECX Barrage and it's been pretty good so far, but now am looking at doing some upgrades on it and am seeking your input.

As a bit of backstory, I'm a bike mechanic of 10+ years so I feel as though I can do just about anything mechanically related to the vehicle, but not as much on the electrical side. What I *am* looking forward to doing is getting into some building and experimenting.

So, what do you guys think are generally the best first upgrades, especially for this particular machine? My short list:

- Steering servo - hopefully something on-axle and compact
- Axles - Thinking MST from the CFX if they would work. Would be a nice axle to build as a first-timer, I've read the instructions are more than adequate. I want to 4-link the suspension and...
- Shocks - I'd like to both replace and build new shocks (for the experience) as well as move them outboard of the frame rails

Ultimately, I'd like your thoughts and opinions, and also your recommendations, I've been reading a lot but I'd like to know what you guys think of my "upgrade path". I'll try and update this post in a month or so to add a couple photos of where I've taken my stock Barrage

 

[hillbillyrc]

First of all do the couple free mods, flip the chassis brace above the sevro, trim the stock driveshafts as the male half shaft is to long and bottoms out before the suspension does. The stock axles have lots of potential as they are clones of the losi mini crawler/slickrock. So 4 link plates will work on the barrage. Dravtec wraptors you can xr mod and outboard the shocks. Definitely need a better servo. If you outbroad the shocks first you can use a standard size servo. And you can run an overdrive in the front axle using a traxxas mini e-revo pinion.

In my opinion if all this was done the barrage will perform great.

 

[Mancub]

hillbillyrc - Thanks for your input! I've been following your build and you make some good points!

I have flipped the front battery support around and have installed a spacer between the second and the battery tray to increase clearance there. I have already ordered a new servo (jumped the gun), a Hitec HS-645MG. I read about this one in the ECX Barrage thread and think it should work great and be just about bolt-on. My main concern with the stock axles was the amount of slop in the steering and that the pins fall out of the axle shafts when the hex spacers are removed. I had considered the Losi link plates for the existing axles but overall the build quality of the axle assemblies isn't too good...

...am I wrong with this thought process? Thanks again for your input, I was also thinking of using a Blackfoot body like your truck but was waiting on more progress pics

 

[hillbillyrc]

I haven't had any time to work on it lately. Hopefully before this long weekend is over I get some time. Also with the wraptors you remove all the sloppy stock parts as it uses wraith knuckles and c-hubs and xr-10 axle shafts. One of the differences in my rgt and the barrage is the rgt had dog bone axle shafts and barrage has cvd axle shafts. Possible losi mini crawler cvds could be put in but then you would need to find a widener the same width as the stock wide hexs. Lots of things are possible just takes trying them to see if they work. But it also get spendy that way to.

 

[Mancub]

I've looked into some of the XR Mod threads and I'm not 100% sure if I want to go that route. I do like the the Dravtec 4-link plates, that's a good way to 4-link the suspension.

Definitely going to trim the male-end driveshafts until they don't bind the suspension...seems that it could increase the chance of ruining/dropping one on the trail.

Has anyone put MST CMX/CFX axles under this truck yet? It seems like most people aren't doing that but it seems to me it'd be the easiest way to go 4-link and outboard the axles at one time while minimally increasing the track width..after that simply choose the right shock length/type.

 

[Natedog]

Has anyone put MST CMX/CFX axles under this truck yet? It seems like most people aren't doing that but it seems to me it'd be the easiest way to go 4-link and outboard the axles at one time while minimally increasing the track width..after that simply choose the right shock length/type.

Great suggestions from Hillbillyrc, his build is really good too!

OP, MST axles you might as well buy a second truck because of the cost of buying another kit just for axles...unless you have just axles available, but I haven't seen them sold separately. The cheap/free mods are the best, then do the ones that cost a bit more after driving it awhile. "thumbsup"

 

[Mancub]

Great suggestions from Hillbillyrc, his build is really good too!

OP, MST axles you might as well buy a second truck because of the cost of buying another kit just for axles...unless you have just axles available, but I haven't seen them sold separately. The cheap/free mods are the best, then do the ones that cost a bit more after driving it awhile. "thumbsup"

Natedogg, thanks for chiming in! I know your opinion is valued here and I appreciate your input "thumbsup"

The MST axles are available separate from the kit, $95 for the pair from AsiaTees...they're the standard axles, not the portals.

If I break down the price of using the stock axles and XR mod them...
-Dravtech 4-link mounts and wraptors, those are $60 alone for two pairs...
-Rear lock outs are regularly $25+ for a pair...
-Standard Axial XR knuckles are $10 for the pair, aluminum versions are $25+ for a pair...
-Then I need to factor in the costs of half-shafts/CVD's, knuckle bushings, a new or modified steering linkage...

On top of this I live in an apartment with zero access to power tools (outside of what I have at work) to make it all happen... I don't mean to disregard that particular suggestion, but from a numbers standpoint, it makes sense to me. It may not end up being the most custom thing out there, but it should work a lot better...

Hillbilly (or Natedogg),
Any chance the stock shocks on this thing are worth tearing into (new fluid, internal springs for droop, etc.)? The springs themselves don't seem particularly soft and if they're set up to sag more (for more droop) maybe I could get rid of the limiters on the shafts? What are your thoughts, there? Any suggestions for shocks if they're not worth tinkering with?

 

[hillbillyrc]

They aren't the greatest shock. I used losi/ vaterra blue springs which are softer and a bit shorter. But would look in to shocks after you have your axles figured out. Stock hardware is 2mm, wraptors is setup to use 3mm and the mst axles I'm not sure of the hardware.

Mixing and match things to work on this scale mutt can be hard but awarding when you find something that works or works with little modification. I know the apparment thing. I'm in the same boat. But I do have a garage I can work in.

 

[Shinchu]

I was browsing youtube half awake last night watching gcm vids and they showed the cmax chasis, says it uses tm8 axles. I followed along with my tablet and looked into parts while the vid played . Multimedia crawler nerd achievement unlocked. Anyway, the housings for the tm8 axles are on shapeways, then you order the hardware from gcm murica site, tinytrucks.

Reason im telling you all this, and it would be insane to see all this on a barragergt, but you can get the tm8 axles in a narrow 152mm version, either coil or leaf spring version!
Hardest part is will the driveshaft bolt up. Says it takes a standard 5mm shaft. *shrug* might be worth a shot!

Btw im also a huge fan of the little underdog barrage/rgt thing, and hillybilly is who i would consider the pioneer of innovation for this rig. Truly inspirational sir! Ecx needs to send you royalty checks every time your name is dropped!

Now excuse me while i try to decide between a barragergt or a cfx... (trying to build a tribute truck to my dads old 78 f100, first car i ever drove and it was in the california high desert... on trails. Need a chasis that fits traxxas bigfoot 1 body.)

 

[hillbillyrc]

In luck the barrage/rgt axles have a 5mm pinion. That's the rub with overdrive pinion gear is the out put is 4mm.

The reason it works is the pinion bearing is 4mm I.D the stock output is 4mm and steps up to 5mm. Where the driveshaft connects.

 

[Mancub]

I think the TM8 axles are a killer idea, but also a budget killer haha...almost the price of the truck solely in axles haha.

Hillbilly, looks like the output on the MST pinion is 4mm and the linkage/shock mounting hardware is all M3. They might just work.

 

[hillbillyrc]

Here is parts and numbers that make a drive shaft that 4mm to 5mm.
half shafts is TRA1951
4mm Yoke is TRA1539R
5mm yoke is TRA4628R

 

[Shinchu]

Yup i agree! Haha see what i mean?! Dude is like THE barrage guy!

And i told you the tm8 would be crazy on a barrage lol but it aould bring the width down very nicely! And a good option for leafs!

Well hopefully we get to see some proggress on your rig. You got the roadmap to success now!

 

[Natedog]

Mancub, thanks and sounds like MST axles are the way to go then! As Hillbillyrc said stock shocks ok with little work, and yes he's the ECX Barrage guru imo too! 8)

I love what he does with this little underdog!

 

[Mancub]

Yup i agree! Haha see what i mean?! Dude is like THE barrage guy!

And i told you the tm8 would be crazy on a barrage lol but it aould bring the width down very nicely! And a good option for leafs!

Well hopefully we get to see some proggress on your rig. You got the roadmap to success now!

Hillbilly has been a huge help so far! And yeah, those axles sure are dope man...would be awesome to tinker with leafs down the road but for now I'm sticking with coils.

I've got the servo here, waiting on some other goodies, and I also have lots of pics so far. Once I get around to getting those up I'll have a thread to start "thumbsup"

Mancub, thanks and sounds like MST axles are the way to go then! As Hillbillyrc said stock shocks ok with little work, and yes he's the ECX Barrage guru imo too! 8)

I love what he does with this little underdog!

For sure, man, I've seen some of your work so far and it's pretty flippin' cool!


So I've got a short list of things that I have done, and will do, but if I were to post up a build thread, which section would it go in? 1.9 Scalers or MST CMX? I'm thinking the biggest difference is "scaler" usually has an interior? Let me know what you guys think.

 

[hillbillyrc]

If you do plan some sort of interior 1.9 section would work since there isn't a barrage section (don't know why)

 

[jester27]

Being that my question is Barrage related I'll ask here rather than starting a new thread. I picked up a Barrage for my sons birthday and was wanting to have everything set up and ready to go. I wanted to pick up a couple of lipos, I've decided to get a Kinexsis KX80 charger but am having a bit of trouble choosing batteries. What size lipos would ya'll recommend for the Barrage?

 

[ruinx]

jester from my exp with the barrage don't get lipo stick with the stock battery the motor will be a lot happier. i have blown up 4 motors using 2 and 3 cell batts my friend has only used the stock battery and no issues

 

[Mancub]

Jester, so far I've gotten 40+ minutes on the stock NIMH 900mah pack and do believe that Lipo 2S/3S packs will only either break parts or burn up motors. Although the ESC is rated for both, I do not believe the motor is. I am currently on the hunt for a slightly longer-lasting pack and will then use the stocker as a back-up.

Also, I've got a write-up started on how to install a full-size servo in this thing, complete w/ photos. Will post up once it's finished. My MST MSA axles have shipped today from AsiaTees, too! "thumbsup"

 

[hillbillyrc]

As far as lipos batteries check out the losi mini crawler section. Lots of guys use them in that little guy. It has around the same motor size as the barrage (can also find a better motor). There is some figuring when it comes to running lipos to make sure you use the right battery for your set up. And make sure you switch the ESC from nimh to lipo. One thing I have found is the spur/ pinion ratio is to high. 60t spur / 16t pinion dropping the pinion count down will keep the motor alive and running cool. 10t is perfect ratio but too small to work with motor adjustment. So something from 12t to 14t will keep the motor cool. My stock motor burnt up. Haven't replaced the stock motor cause I'm working on a forward mounted motor with a 540 motor.