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Fusion Pro or HH Crawl Master pro

hnoroian

Rock Crawler
Joined
Feb 3, 2020
Messages
659
Location
Bakersfield
Does anyone have a comparison the two? I read about the low speed control but not a comparison of the two yet.

I bought another GK kit and was looking for the clean layout of direct powered servo and the 2in1. Got to thinking that I already have a great combo that was intended for a 10.3 (the 1080/HH Pro 550 10t). But can’t decide if I want to steal it and go with some other direction for the 10.3 with what I already have in extra parts. Or do I want to spend another $150?
 
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Does anyone have a comparison the two? I read about the low speed control but not a comparison of the two yet.

I bought another GK kit and was looking for the clean layout of direct powered servo and the 2in1. Got to thinking that I already have a great combo that was intended for a 10.3 (the 1080/HH Pro 550 10t). But can’t decide if I want to steal it and go with some other direction for the 10.3 with what I already have in extra parts. Or do I want to spend another $150?

Both are awesome at low speed control. The main difference is the FOC in the Fusion, as it would be able to maintain its same crawl speed as you articulate over different parts of an obstacle etc versus the 1080/HH Crawlmaster setup you'd have to modulate the throttle in order to keep the same said wheel speed. Both fantastic, both will bring joy, but one needs careful throttle inputs when it matters versus the other just needs a steady throttle trigger hold.

The Fusion Pro is worth the $150.
 
FOC is pretty cool, throttle modulation isn’t a concern but always nice to have cruise control. I like the idea of less maintenance too. Darn decisions
 
I recently went through this on one of my comp trucks, here is where I landed.

My brushed setup was a Holmes BR-XL with a Crawlmaster Magnum Stubby 16t, arguably one of the better brushed motors available. For the Fusion, I use the Pro which is 2300kv. I've also tried various Revolver / Crawlmaster Mini setups.

Both have plenty of power. Both are fairly quiet. Both stay reasonably cool even when pushed hard. The brushed setup will let you run 4S or higher, the Fusion is set at 3S, so it restricts your options on batteries a fair bit. Both have decent BECs. The Fusion has an on/off switch, which I do not like, but it is what it is. Weight on both is reasonable. The Fusion cleans up the wiring a bit and is a nice contained package. I honestly got along great with both, except I feel FOC / sinewave drive offers some benefits that the brushed setup doesn't.

If you don't know how it works, FOC/sinewave/whatever allows you (up to a certain %) to hold the throttle and it basically sets the RPM on cruise control, it will adjust automatically to maintain that RPM. Both the Crawlmaster Mini and Fusion Pro have some form of it, as does the Silent Assassin and various other raw board ESCs do, I think the Axe R2 does as well. This mode gives the truck a really smooth startup, the problem is that it shuts off at a certain %, usually 25-30% depending on ESC. From there, the motor might make a different noise, but the transition can seem slightly abrupt. This is less of an issue with the Fusion IMO than the other, but it's not out of control or anything.

A brushed motor gives you this control instead of the ESC, if it starts to hang up, then it will stay hung up until you give it more throttle. It doesn't do the work for you, but you can make micro adjustments and it isn't going to leap out of control until it is unloaded, which is one major flaw with them. You can be at 50% throttle and it is all good against a wall, but once it clears that wall, it's gonna leap if you don't let off the throttle in time, FOC will not do this. It takes more planning and skill to pull off, but it works REALLY well when it works. The setup also requires a touchier throttle that progresses much faster. If you have a steady hand, I think this gives you more gearing and battery options, control is great also. You can also "feel" the traction of the tires more, they'll spin slow until they grab, then the motor loads until you give it a little more throttle or wait it out to start moving. The downside is if you are competing and get the shakes, it's a lot harder to control than using something with FOC. So the main two downsides for brushed: you have to control it unloading, if you don't, it'll speed out of control -and- it requires a more touchier throttle setup.

For me, I plan on sticking with FOC. The brushed setup is really nice, but the last two comps I did, my fingers were twitching and it made it hard to control and more error prone, FOC is just more forgiving IMO. I also like that I can hold some throttle and focus on steering. I can say that I won't run a brushless setup without it, but it's really tough to call between a good brushed motor/esc and a FOC/sinewave drive ESC. People may give you crap for it, but I know at least one pro driver who has competed with it all last year and was on the podium for national events, so it works. My expectation, and hope, is that Castle gets with the program and updates their ESCs with this so we have more options available aside from the Fusion Pro, Axe (heavy), and exposed board ESCs. If I didn't get the shakes, it would be a really tough decision, I really liked that I could feel out traction with the brushed motor.

Also consider maintenance, brushed motors require new brushes and comm lathes every so often. Not a huge deal but brushless is largely maintenance free. The Fusion Pro is also really nice to keep on hand if you are traveling somewhere as a spare, it's a real easy swapout in case you have a problem.

Side note: The Furitek Lizard has it also, although it is the worst ESC I've ever used, it cogs and performs terribly
 
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I have both the Fusion Pro 2300 and a Crawlmaster Pro / BRXL combo. Both are in Elements, so it’s easy to compare. There’s no denying the slow crawl of the Fusion is bonkers slow. Like watching grass grow if you’re into that. It certainly makes you feel like you could muscle your way up and over just about anything. And you probably can. It has a lot of punch, and will let you know both in the way it powers over obstacles slowly and in its zip at anything over 70% throttle. Stabbing the throttle takes you from slow as molasses to missile speed pretty abruptly, so maybe adjust the punch. It will also break your truck if you get it bound up, and you might not even know, because despite being slow, it is still pumping out the power, even if that means snapping shafts.

As far as the Crawlmaster Pro setup, it’s buttery smooth. It’s also very slow and easier to tune with the throttle curve of the ESC. I’m very used to having that curve, and it’s a big plus for me. There is the maintenance with brushed, which is something to consider, but in all honesty, the Puller Pro is so close to the smoothness of both. I don’t have an issue with a twitchy finger, and I like being able to control how much power I’m putting down and when. Want more power? Throttle up knowing you’ll unload and need to back off. I’m used to it, and I like it.

That fusion sure does crawl slow, though, haha. It reminds me of a diesel, except the engine is very quiet, and instead of having to throttle it for power it will yank scale tree trunks out of the ground at the lowest RPM; it’s an unusual sensation.

My kids like the Fusion, because it’s easy to modulate, but they can be pretty adept at guiding even a crummy brushed motor quite well.

I like the Fusion, but I also kind of prefer non-FOC setups overall to a degree. I’m reserving that final sentiment on trying the Crawlmaster Mini v2 with that sine wave deal and a Revolver. That’s just me. I’m weird. Regardless, Hobbywing has really thrown a wrench in the works of their competitors. Price for performance is stunning, and they make solid products.
 
I’m reserving that final sentiment on trying the Crawlmaster Mini v2 with that sine wave deal and a Revolver. That’s just me. I’m weird. Regardless, Hobbywing has really thrown a wrench in the works of their competitors. Price for performance is stunning, and they make solid products.

I ran the Crawlmaster also and I like it a fair bit, my main issue is with availability if it blows up (and I have blown one up), limits on 4S, and I think it's not entirely as smooth as the Fusion Pro is. It drives really well, though, and I think for lightweight comp rigs that primarily stay on rock or indoors, it's near perfect, the fact their FOC is open means you can adjust it, also, although I have found it will cog a little more. I am a huge fan of Holmes and I hope they continue on this path with ESCs.

The issue for me with it is confidence. If I'm spending the time and money to comp, I don't wanna DNF because my ESC blew up and it seems a lot of folks are having this problem. Not being waterproof can also be a problem depending on where it is.

That said, it's really good, especially for lighter trucks, it's hard for me to not put one in the light C2 I'm building now (I probably will).

Nothing weird about preferring brushed, though, I know a lot of people who do and I would probably run it in my comp rigs if I didn't immediately go from chill to getting shakes during comps. If I ever work through that, I would probably reconsider that setup.
 
I like the Fusion, but I also kind of prefer non-FOC setups overall to a degree. I’m reserving that final sentiment on trying the Crawlmaster Mini v2 with that sine wave deal and a Revolver.

I did a comparison between my Element “EctoKeeper” with a Fusion (OG 1800, not SE) and my Gmade BOM with a Crawlmaster Mini V2/1800 Revolver V3. I know, 2 different truck but whatever. Both rigs have ultra smooth drivetrains and the super low startup on both was exceptional. I’d MAYBE give the CM V2/Revolver combo a wee bit better startup but it was honestly so close that the results might have been due to the rig.
 
Thanks for all the replies. Everything is about what I thought. Between the two I now have both. The Fusion Pro was sitting in the Amazon cart the other day and was bought along with a bunch of stuff. It came next day too which was nice. It will go into the GK when I finish building it.

I’ve been running the HH Pro for a few weeks now in the 10.3 and is wonderful. Almost with I went with the 13t instead of the 10t.

I’ll probably eventually do a side by side comparison eventually. Can’t wait to finish but life is getting busy the next few weeks.
 
I ran the Crawlmaster also and I like it a fair bit, my main issue is with availability if it blows up (and I have blown one up), limits on 4S, and I think it's not entirely as smooth as the Fusion Pro is. It drives really well, though, and I think for lightweight comp rigs that primarily stay on rock or indoors, it's near perfect, the fact their FOC is open means you can adjust it, also, although I have found it will cog a little more. I am a huge fan of Holmes and I hope they continue on this path with ESCs.

The issue for me with it is confidence. If I'm spending the time and money to comp, I don't wanna DNF because my ESC blew up and it seems a lot of folks are having this problem. Not being waterproof can also be a problem depending on where it is.

That said, it's really good, especially for lighter trucks, it's hard for me to not put one in the light C2 I'm building now (I probably will).

Nothing weird about preferring brushed, though, I know a lot of people who do and I would probably run it in my comp rigs if I didn't immediately go from chill to getting shakes during comps. If I ever work through that, I would probably reconsider that setup.

This seems like an absolutley fair assessment. Fear of frying a Crawlmaster is the one thing that has kept me from trying it out.

I did a comparison between my Element “EctoKeeper” with a Fusion (OG 1800, not SE) and my Gmade BOM with a Crawlmaster Mini V2/1800 Revolver V3. I know, 2 different truck but whatever. Both rigs have ultra smooth drivetrains and the super low startup on both was exceptional. I’d MAYBE give the CM V2/Revolver combo a wee bit better startup but it was honestly so close that the results might have been due to the rig.

This is good to know. Makes the price tag of the Fusion very attractive.
 
Fear of frying a Crawlmaster is the one thing that has kept me from trying it out.

This is good to know. Makes the price tag of the Fusion very attractive.
Never have feared of a motor going out, even with shotty regular maintenance. Though I have had a few ESC’s of all types over the years give up the ghost, even resistor speed controls have crumble.

I agree the price point is attractive. Not much more if any than any other brushed combo.

I haven’t had any other quality hand wound motors since the late 90/ early 00’s. I have been enjoying the 1080/CM PRO. It really is smooth, and scoots on command.

I need to build the GK and put in the fusion pro to run it now. Maybe next week during my lunches.
 
Never have feared of a motor going out, even with shotty regular maintenance. Though I have had a few ESC’s of all types over the years give up the ghost, even resistor speed controls have crumble.

I agree the price point is attractive. Not much more if any than any other brushed combo.

I haven’t had any other quality hand wound motors since the late 90/ early 00’s. I have been enjoying the 1080/CM PRO. It really is smooth, and scoots on command.

I need to build the GK and put in the fusion pro to run it now. Maybe next week during my lunches.

I think he was talking about the HH Crawlmaster ESC, not the motor... As far as blowing it up, that is.

He has hinted around at a future version that could be more RTR, and I tell ya what - if he puts one in a sealed case I'll buy multiples.

I just hate soldering, have major issues with keeping a steady hand - and that's only getting worse as the years go by.
 
I think he was talking about the HH Crawlmaster ESC, not the motor... As far as blowing it up, that is.
Makes much more sense now haha I was only thinking half right

I’m waiting for the day I’m shaking enough I can’t anymore, I know my family history… Jigs’/3rd hands definitely help with soldering.
 
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