How much timing and best gears for more punch?

[Malawi]

Hi,

Trying to get the perfect setup for comp crawling. But i dont know so much about motors/gears.
Bought a new slower motor but it doesnt have any punch.
I like the slow control but i dont have that extra punch torque to Jump gaps like my original trx4 motor. How can i have both?

Higher or lower timing? Its at 0 now.

Other pinion? Using 9/45, i have a 11 pinion aswell would that help?

My motor is a:
Reedy Radon 2 Crawler 20T 5-Slot 1500kV Brushed Motor

 

[Phildirt]

if you are not running 3s do that. Single best upgrade I made on my rigs. Can still creep, but can git er done when you need it. Like an extra 200hp on tap. On 2s my Deadbolt is 'meh', almost boring but crawls pretty good. On 3s it still crawls pretty good but also does donuts and jumps things.

 

[Malawi]

if you are not running 3s do that. Single best upgrade I made on my rigs. Can still creep, but can git er done when you need it. Like an extra 200hp on tap. On 2s my Deadbolt is 'meh', almost boring but crawls pretty good. On 3s it still crawls pretty good but also does donuts and jumps things.

Im already using 3s.

Do u think it can help to change to 11 pinion without loosing to much slow crawl? or change to a higer spur gear then 45?
I miss the donuts. My rig is pretty front heavy aswell so really need that extra power sometimes to get up on some rocks.

 

[HumboldtEF]

1500 KV is a bit low if you're after wheelspeed. You can try to gear up just keep an eye on ESC and motor temps. If you dont have temp gun you can touch the motor and ESC, you should be able to hold your finger to them for 5 seconds without getting burned, if you cant its likely too hot.

I assume this is a TRX4. If so the 9t pinion with a 45t spur gear is as low as you can go. You can try some bigger pinions or you could also go with a 39t spur gear which is from the sport, though thats a fairly big jump in gearing. Just for some extra info a smaller spur gear (less teeth) will be a faster, a smaller pinion (less teeth) will be slower.

As for timing 6 degrees of timing will give you a tiny bit more wheelspeed/RPM and provide longer brush life (this is brushed motor specific).

You can usually find a sweet spot gearing wise that has decent wheelspeed and good low speed control though this will depend on the motor and ESC.

 

[Malawi]

1500 KV is a bit low if you're after wheelspeed. You can try to gear up just keep an eye on ESC and motor temps. If you dont have temp gun you can touch the motor and ESC, you should be able to hold your finger to them for 5 seconds without getting burned, if you cant its likely too hot.

I assume this is a TRX4. If so the 9t pinion with a 45t spur gear is as low as you can go. You can try some bigger pinions or you could also go with a 39t spur gear which is from the sport, though thats a fairly big jump in gearing. Just for some extra info a smaller spur gear (less teeth) will be a faster, a smaller pinion (less teeth) will be slower.

As for timing 6 degrees of timing will give you a tiny bit more wheelspeed/RPM and provide longer brush life (this is brushed motor specific).

You can usually find a sweet spot gearing wise that has decent wheelspeed and good low speed control though this will depend on the motor and ESC.

Great! Thanks for the helpful info, that was all i needed to know
And yes its a trx4 tactical unit(defender) from the scratch.
I have got rid of all the extra stuff and using single speed atm. Will first try go from 9 to 11 pinion and 6 degrees timing, maybe its enough without compromise to much control.

Just to be clear u meant positive timing right? since the trx4 is made
for reverse so i dont get more speed revearsing :roll: Had to change the +and- cables so it can go forward when pressing forward.

 

[HumboldtEF]

Shoot I think its positive but now you have me wondering too. I know the direction you advance it changes depending on if its a reverse rotation motor or not. Holmes Hobbies has a good video going over the details of adjusting timing on brushed motors, check it out.

https://youtu.be/G5-EZyPZBFI

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/G5-EZyPZBFI" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Voodoobrew]

First off, punch is how much power you have from a standing start and has zero to do with top speed. It has more to do with Torque then anything else.

A trx4 comes with a 21t 3-slot 550 motor which is so much better then a 20t 5-slot 540motor.

Bigger motors produce more torque.
Lower turn motors produce more speed.
You want both.
Power = Torque x Speed

Higher voltage increases power
lower gears (smaller pinion) converts speed into torque. (power doesn't change)

A 20t 540 motor is just slow, but it doesn't have much speed or torque, so it doesn't have much power, so its not really good for anything except longer run time.
If you want to do burnouts and crawl then you want power.
To get power use a 550 motor can be 3slot(more power) or 5slot(more crawl), 2200KV is the sweet spot for brushed motors for maximum power. (that's like 8-10t 5-slot 550 or 21t 3-slot 550)
Then throw as much voltage as you can at it, preferably 4s, but most cheap esc's are 3s only (like the Hobbywing 1080)
Then adjust the gearing till you have the best blend of crawling and burnout (larger pinion for more speed, smaller pinion for more crawl)

The thing is there is not really enough power in a cheap brushed motor to do both burnouts and crawling well until you use 4s lipos and have the right motors and gearing.

Paying 4x more money for a higher quality brushed motor can almost double your power.
IMO if your thinking of doing this then just save up and go with a quality setup like a Mamba X and Puller pro. If you get a 2200kv puller pro-R you can run it on a 6s lipo for burnouts and switch to 3s for crawling.

My 2 speed trx4 with a Mamba X and Puller pro on 6s with a 9t pinion.

 

[HugoBiermann]

You say you have a 5slot now? A 20t 5slot is about a 40t 3slot rpm wise... And a 540 will be weak compared to a 550, as have been said. You need torque and power, not runtime...

Pop a 10t 550 5slot in and you should be almost back to where you where, but with smooth low end.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Malawi]

First off, punch is how much power you have from a standing start and has zero to do with top speed. It has more to do with Torque then anything else.

A trx4 comes with a 21t 3-slot 550 motor which is so much better then a 20t 5-slot 540motor.

Bigger motors produce more torque.
Lower turn motors produce more speed.
You want both.
Power = Torque x Speed

Higher voltage increases power
lower gears (smaller pinion) converts speed into torque. (power doesn't change)

A 20t 540 motor is just slow, but it doesn't have much speed or torque, so it doesn't have much power, so its not really good for anything except longer run time.
If you want to do burnouts and crawl then you want power.
To get power use a 550 motor can be 3slot(more power) or 5slot(more crawl), 2200KV is the sweet spot for brushed motors for maximum power. (that's like 8-10t 5-slot 550 or 21t 3-slot 550)
Then throw as much voltage as you can at it, preferably 4s, but most cheap esc's are 3s only (like the Hobbywing 1080)
Then adjust the gearing till you have the best blend of crawling and burnout (larger pinion for more speed, smaller pinion for more crawl)

The thing is there is not really enough power in a cheap brushed motor to do both burnouts and crawling well until you use 4s lipos and have the right motors and gearing.

Paying 4x more money for a higher quality brushed motor can almost double your power.
IMO if your thinking of doing this then just save up and go with a quality setup like a Mamba X and Puller pro. If you get a 2200kv puller pro-R you can run it on a 6s lipo for burnouts and switch to 3s for crawling.

My 2 speed trx4 with a Mamba X and Puller pro on 6s with a 9t pinion.

Ye i know i made a misstake buying that but right now i dont want to put in more money to it just fix the problem as much i can with free mods. I like the smooth low end Speed and the lower weight 70 grams. Should have bought a 1800 kv 16t.

Anyway do i know how i should Time it right for just some more Speed? Since i switch the cables to make in go forward. It seems like if turning the endbell negative degress its faster forward and the other direktion faster backwards:roll:

 

[HugoBiermann]

With the 5slot you are about 5000rpm short atm. You cannot make that up with timing... only a new motor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Voodoobrew]

For free...
Try to trade parts with friends...
"Should have bought a 1800 kv 16t." I wouldn't, especially if its a 540. That weight savings wont matter much in a trx4, and it wont have much more power then you already have.
Don't make the mistake of thinking that a slower motor makes slow crawling better. It does not. Many people make this mistake.
Slower, higher turn only means less speed and power. It absolutely 100% does not mean more torque like many suggest, it is maybe the same.

 

[Malawi]

For free...
Try to trade parts with friends...
"Should have bought a 1800 kv 16t." I wouldn't, especially if its a 540. That weight savings wont matter much in a trx4, and it wont have much more power then you already have.
Don't make the mistake of thinking that a slower motor makes slow crawling better. It does not. Many people make this mistake.
Slower, higher turn only means less speed and power. It absolutely 100% does not mean more torque like many suggest, it is maybe the same.

Alright ok, do u recommend any motor that fit my rig?
For me weight does matters since i only want it low as possible and trying to make that car as light as possible. I still want it really smooth slow crawling.
Already using a 9 pinion lowest i can find. I dont want to much speed just as much that needs for jumps or take off some hills i cant climb with low speed.

 

[HugoBiermann]

Cheapest starting point:

https://holmeshobbies.com/motors/br...awlmaster-sport/crawlmaster-sport-550-8t.html

Or:

https://holmeshobbies.com/motors/br...wlmaster-sport/crawlmaster-sport-550-10t.html

Solid performance:

https://holmeshobbies.com/motors/br...o/holmes-hobbies-crawlmaster-pro-550-10t.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Voodoobrew]

Or those 3 crawlmasters or a trailmaster 21t.
A lot of people recommend the crawlmasters but i dont think they usualy know what makes them different from the trailmasters.

The trailmaster will have more punch, dragbrake, more torque and more power.

The crawlmaster has slightly better initial start speed. But if your running a hobbywing esc you wont see it. This is because the minimum start power of the hobbywing 1080 is too high.

__________________________
Handy gearing spreadsheet