Insulin Pump -

[wings_of_fire]

I have just come to know that an insulin pump costs somewhere in the range of 5 to 6k in the US! Is that the right price for the pump there?

I have not come across diabetes since no one in my family has it and I am not aware about its medical expenses. But I did realise that some people are suffering out of financial problems and they simply are denied the needed right medication just because of a simple concept invented, called 'money'.

Can you realise what these people have to go through being aware that there is a ray of light which will let them live, but its not for them because they cannot pay for it? People who cannot earn enough money are by no way unhuman. Money does not have the right to put a break on their right to live!!

At the moment I am pretty much furious as to what makes an insulin pump cost so high!! Based on my knowlege I do get an idea of a class 3 clean room manufacturing, but looking at the insulin pump, how much of raw material goes into it anyway. We all know there are smd microcontrollers. There are micro solenoids available. There are pizoelectric materials available and much more that is required to do a simple process of pumping fluid in a precise quantity. Its still not a concept that is rocket science. Cell phones are bloody cheap that require a lot more tech to build than an insulin pump.

If I was in the US, I would simply file a public petetion.The petetion would be about funding a research institute to design and build an absolutely low cost but reliable insulin pump that any person without insurance can afford it without disturbing his/her monthly financial plan. The funding for research comes from donations made by public. People together have a lot of power. Getting a cost of 150 USD retail for an insulin pump is absolutely possible. I am saying this based on my experience in the manufacturing field and I am very sure about it. If this had to be funded by the government, I am sure the pump will never come to the retail store.

If this idea had to be executed in the US, how many of you would take a step in supporting it ?

 

[nmanuel01]

Try kickstarter

 

[Calderwood]

I don't think the legal liabilities could be covered at $150. The potential for lawsuit is enormous with a product like this.

 

[The Violator]

I don't think the legal liabilities could be covered at $150. The potential for lawsuit is enormous with a product like this.

I would bet this is over half the costs. A simple glitch could kill a person. I know when I was taking diabetes medicine I would have my blood sugar drop below 40 and would notice. But children, and anyone else who is in poor health might not notice the subtle signs ( I would get really pissed off, then break out in a cold sweat).


Of course I do not believe they cost $6k to manufacture. But the companies who do the R&D deserve some profit. I bet the insurance companies have their cost on these written down by half. Same with Medicare. That leaves only middle income people to foot the entire bill.

 

[wings_of_fire]

Try kickstarter

No, I am not looking for funding to do it myself. Its a problem that needs collective efforts.
That website is good. Thanks for posting.

I don't think the legal liabilities could be covered at $150. The potential for lawsuit is enormous with a product like this.

This is something I did have a hunch about. Everything there seems to be entangled into law and regulations.
When life is already at stake and when finances are crumpled and if a person like this is offered a product that is better than...
1]The product standards outlined by law
2] The unnecessary price hike out of ifs and thens...
3] The supply chain of doctors, chemist, distributors and retailers that all tighten the financial knot around the patients neck and who make collosal profits.

Then what would go wrong? If the patient knows all this, then would he/she not go ahead with it out of common sense?

I would bet this is over half the costs. A simple glitch could kill a person. I know when I was taking diabetes medicine I would have my blood sugar drop below 40 and would notice. But children, and anyone else who is in poor health might not notice the subtle signs ( I would get really pissed off, then break out in a cold sweat).


Of course I do not believe they cost $6k to manufacture. But the companies who do the R&D deserve some profit. I bet the insurance companies have their cost on these written down by half. Same with Medicare. That leaves only middle income people to foot the entire bill.

That is an important point that I have no deeper idea about at this time and I will search more about it. You have experienced it, hence I do agree you know it better.
But if the product is proved and throughly reliable then what could be the issue? What assurance does the person have who buys an expensive insulin pump?

R&D costs have an upper limit. Those R&D costs recover within no time with such prices. Then it turns into a cycle of printing money.

How much do you think these companies have put into R&D to design and build a sucessful product? Rough figures will do....

 

[SINister]

Man I didn't know we had it so bad here in America.

 

[wings_of_fire]

Man I didn't know we had it so bad here in America.

Your statement looks sarcastic to me..:roll:

The insulin pump issue should be the same all over. Only people who suffer feel the pain, rest I do not think even care..

 

[BLOODBANE]

It isnt just the cost of the pump. It has to have ports installed in the body for it to inject the insulin and watch the rise and falls of the blood sugars. The diabetic still will be checking blood sugars as well. I have had diabetes for 28 yrs. and I myself am looking for transplant (only around a 80k surgery). In my opinion diabetes will not be cured, because you are looking at a multi-billion dollar a year income. One of the insulins I was taking was 300.00 for a month long supply. that was just one (I take 2 different types of insulin). You also have to add in the cost of testing supplies, Drs. visits, and if the need arises hospital stays. What bothers me most is the young kids that have it. Im an old guy (well somewhat old, Im only 43) and it just something I do now. When I was younger I had a kinda hard time adapting to it. I can tell you this though, DIABETES SUCKS! I dont wish it on my worst enemy

I have a lot more to say, but like always, its time to check my blood sugars and take a shot.

 

[FATBOYrs10]

diabetes plain SUCKS........although, not on the pump,yet...I have been giving myself shots for several years now....I would much rather just take a good ol' ass whoopin' every morning for the rest of my life then to have to deal with it another minute.

 

[Calderwood]

This is something I did have a hunch about. Everything there seems to be entangled into law and regulations.
When life is already at stake and when finances are crumpled and if a person like this is offered a product that is better than...
1]The product standards outlined by law
2] The unnecessary price hike out of ifs and thens...
3] The supply chain of doctors, chemist, distributors and retailers that all tighten the financial knot around the patients neck and who make collosal profits.

Then what would go wrong? If the patient knows all this, then would he/she not go ahead with it out of common sense?

I don't think it's the patient is the one that you really need to worry about suing. If a patient that is using your pump dies and thier family finds out that they died while on a $150 insulin pump you can bet that you will be sued by the family. You would have a really hard time convincing a jury that your $150 pump was providing the same level of performance as a traditional $6000 pump delivers.

I understand what you are thinking about and believe me, I wish that US health care wasn't so convoluted, but that's the way it is. There are so many people in the US that could provide care to people who need it, that can't because of over regulation and fear of lawsuits.

 

[wings_of_fire]

It isnt just the cost of the pump. It has to have ports installed in the body for it to inject the insulin and watch the rise and falls of the blood sugars. The diabetic still will be checking blood sugars as well. I have had diabetes for 28 yrs. and I myself am looking for transplant (only around a 80k surgery). In my opinion diabetes will not be cured, because you are looking at a multi-billion dollar a year income. One of the insulins I was taking was 300.00 for a month long supply. that was just one (I take 2 different types of insulin). You also have to add in the cost of testing supplies, Drs. visits, and if the need arises hospital stays. What bothers me most is the young kids that have it. Im an old guy (well somewhat old, Im only 43) and it just something I do now. When I was younger I had a kinda hard time adapting to it. I can tell you this though, DIABETES SUCKS! I dont wish it on my worst enemy

I have a lot more to say, but like always, its time to check my blood sugars and take a shot.

That is the first mistake as a patient. Why accept what life throws at you? You know it is a plain business then why support it and accept what rules the medical community makes for you? If all the people who have diabetes come together and determinely fight for their right then sure a lot of things can be turned in your favor.

Can you imagine what those young guys might be going through to pay all those bills in a time when they need to settle down. And apart from that can you imagine what those old people might be going through who are retired and are putting all their life savings to just survive the old age:roll: I feel terrible just looking at how humans squeeze each other for money!!

Your input has been valuable. I am looking forward to discuss it more. And I do understand the feelings you and FATBOY are going through.

 

[wings_of_fire]

If a patient that is using your pump dies and thier family finds out that they died while on a $150 insulin pump you can bet that you will be sued by the family. You would have a really hard time convincing a jury that your $150 pump was providing the same level of performance as a traditional $6000 pump delivers.

There can be a data logger implemented in the insulin pump. It simply can update daily data or monthly data or yearly data to the manufacturers central database. That data can be crosschecked daily or when ever its uploaded. Apart from that the data logger can also enable the patient to print it daily so it can be cross checked.

The pump design will be so good with a close loop system, that there will be no chance of it going wrong. And every patient would carry two pumps...1 for backup.

I feel fear is exagerated to cover up simple solutions that technology can solve. Thats exactly what I see in health service industry and that fills their pockets.

Believe me its a feeling in the mind that, a would be 150$ pump is inferior compared to a 6k pump.

 

[BLOODBANE]

Its not about "just accepting" what the pharmaceutical company say is. Its just whats available. Ive seen a lot of improvements over the years and a lot of changes in how diabetics are suppose to take care of themselves. The Nova-Log pens are great, just expensive. The vials of nova-Log are about half of what goes in to the pens. The pens do not have to be refrigerated after you start using them (you still store them before use in the fridge). I used to pay 132.00 for 100 test strips, now I only pay 18.00 (Walmart).

As I said before, you would still need some surgery to install your 150.00 pump.

I wish the stem cell research would take off. they could take stem cells from my body, grow the organs I need (in this case pancreas and kidneys), transplant them into my body, and then that would be a cure. With transplant i will have to take meds to help keep my body from attacking the new organs. This lowers my immune system and quite frankly, is a big issue with me. I dont get sick a lot, and when I do, I dont stay sick. The meds dont kill your immune system just lowers it to help preserve the organs. And another thing about transplant is, the organs are only good (estimates) for about 15-20yrs (from the body attacking them). So in all essence its just another treatment. We asked the transplant surgeon about all this, and he told us he was a big proponent of stem cell, but it is just to theoretical right now (someday maybe and it looks real promising).

trust me though, having diabetes now is better than when I was diagnosed with it (1984). It is expensive, but the alternative is dying a horrible death (I was almost in a coma when I was taken in. Couldn't keep food down, drink water to just have to go to the bathroom, lost a ton of weight).

 

[Elmo]

As I said before, you would still need some surgery to install your 150.00 pump.

).

That's not entirely true. I have had three different pumps in the past and each one was an external infusion site pump. The infusion site had to be changed every 72 hours and the pump itself held about 72 to 96 hours worth of insulin. The last pump I had was a Deltec Cosmo, and it completely stopped working two weeks after the warranty ran out. The company was willing to sell me a newer version for $7500 cash, citing that the old one could (and would) not be repaired. I had a pump malfunction when I was 15 (im 27 now) and when it did malfunction, I was delivered a 300 unit dose of fast acting insulin in 15 seconds. I coded in the hospital and had to be revived. Luckily I was in the hospital when this happened. The liability that the company faced was severe, and I feel that that is why some of the pumps are so expensive, but if physicians are required to carry malpractice insurance, why don't the pharmaceutical companies have something similar for cases such as this that would reduce the cost to the patient?
I lost my sight 18 months ago to type one diabetes. I feel that the increased control of blood glucose levels that I pump is capable of would have saved my sight. I agree that it sucks that there will likely never be a cure for diabetes (or cancer or heat disease or insert other debilitating ailment here) simply due to the revenue that is made from the treatment. Scientists are able to grow simple organs in labs already using stem cells. I am hopeful that this research continues. I have seen reports that livers, kidney's and even an entire esophagus have been grown already. The technology could be used to grow more complex organisms such as pancreas' or hearts or even spinal tissue would mean no more diabetes, heart disease, or paralysis. Stem cells can be harvested from living children (not aborted fetuses like most would have you believe) through chord blood research. Hopefully we will see this technology enhanced and used sometime within our lifetime.

 

[BLOODBANE]

Thanks for the clarification Elmo. The only experience I have with the pump is through a cousin who has one. I still use the old, stick Blood sugar strips and keep mine fairly well. we watch the stem cell stuff pretty close, but its such a taboo subject in this country. Like you said though, stem cells can be harvested from live subjects, not the aborted fetus's like has been told to everyone in the past. Im ever hopeful, but i dont think I'll see it in my lifetime.

 

[wings_of_fire]

The last pump I had was a Deltec Cosmo, and it completely stopped working two weeks after the warranty ran out. The company was willing to sell me a newer version for $7500 cash, citing that the old one could (and would) not be repaired.

Malfuntioning can be programmed into the pump. That is a sly truth about the electronics industry..

I had a pump malfunction when I was 15 (im 27 now) and when it did malfunction, I was delivered a 300 unit dose of fast acting insulin in 15 seconds. I coded in the hospital and had to be revived. Luckily I was in the hospital when this happened. The liability that the company faced was severe, and I feel that that is why some of the pumps are so expensive, but if physicians are required to carry malpractice insurance, why don't the pharmaceutical companies have something similar for cases such as this that would reduce the cost to the patient?

If liability that a company faces is severe then, they should not push the liability on the patient in the form of finanical burden. I very well know that a full proof technology does exist.

I lost my sight 18 months ago to type one diabetes. I feel that the increased control of blood glucose levels that I pump is capable of would have saved my sight.

I feel terribly bad for you. You are indeed a strong person.

Can you tell me in what time frame does the insulin pump work. Does it pump insulin every minute, every hour or according to programme.
What maximum amount of insulin can a pump carry?
Do you program the pump every day?
How do you refill it with insulin?

After your answer, I will put forth some of my ideas of an insulin pump.

 

[TURTLE]

My daughter was diagnosed with diabetes when she was 1, she is now 4 and has been on the pump for the last two years.

This is what we do every 2.5 days.
Filling the Reservoir on a MiniMed Paradigm® Insulin Pump - YouTube

She only needs less then a ML. of insulin for the 2.5 days, and the main reason for changing it out so often is her insulin goes bad after being warm and next to her body for that period of time. Occasionally sites don't work properly and have to be changed out. Its a very precise and sometimes fickle process, but the safest and easiest way to regulate diabetes on the market.

Her pump was one of the 5k pumps, pricey yes, but the service medtronic provides is far better then anything we have ever gotten. One time the motor broke in her pump, called them and the next day we had a new one. But the motor breaking was attributed to water getting in the pump. We always have back up supplies so we can go back to shots if we have too. Being prepared it comes with the territory.

 

[Elmo]

I really wish that my Disetronic H-Tron pump would have failed in a closed mode but when it malfunctioned, it stuck wide open and delivered a full 300 unit dose. My last pump fried and just stopped injecting insulin so that was a little easier to deal with. My pump delivered a basil (or regular incremental) dose every three minutes. This dose could be set to different values for each hour of the day. The bolus (extra insulin) dose was calculated based on the amount of carbohydrates that I ate and what my blood glucose was. The bolus was entered manually while the microprocessor in the pump took care of the rest. The pumps now have continuous monitoring of the blood glucose through a separate infusion site and they calculate based on a fixed ratio table that is entered by the user. That is the style of pump that I would like to get next. The infusion sets that I used were changed every 72 hours, and featured a two inch long 28g needle shielded by a Teflon tube. The needle and tube were inserted under the skin and then the needle got removed leaving only the Teflon tube. This was much more comfortable for me, since at the time I was racing motocross and karts. I kept the pump on me even while on track and never had any issues. My pump was water and shock proof and held the distinction of being the only insulin pump that had been over 300km/h that Deltec had on record. I wish that more doctors were educated about insulin pump therapy, especially for juveniles. Making diabetic care a habit at a young age is key to lessening the long term effects of type one diabetes.

 

[wings_of_fire]

My daughter was diagnosed with diabetes when she was 1, she is now 4 and has been on the pump for the last two years.

I feel sorry..she is too young to have it

Thanks for the video link.

My pump was water and shock proof and held the distinction of being the only insulin pump that had been over 300km/h that Deltec had on record.

"thumbsup"
thats nice to know..