Kicked out of NC state park for trailing...wth??

[2mtech]

I'll try to keep this to a short rant. We've been trailing in state parks all over North Carolina nearly every weekend for two years now. We've met countless rangers on the trail or the parking lots, all very nice, admired the trucks, etc. All that has ever been asked was if they were electric vs nitro. No problem, ever. Everyone we meet on the trails loves the trucks and wants to take pictures.

Today this cocky young punk ranger stops us in the parking lot on arrival to tell us we can't run the trucks on the trails as they're "motorized vehicles" and they've had numerous complaints. Really? Pulleez.

I chose to take the high road and discussed it cordially with him for a while, but he made it clear that while he planned on checking policy again he had no intention of letting us trail. We left and went to another nearby park (there's no shortage in the Raleigh/Durham area) and had a typical uneventful fun day anyway.

Has anyone else encountered this foolishness, in NC or any other state? Anyone in the NC park system that can chime in on this? I seriously considered contacting the park service tomorrow, but there's no unringing that bell afterwards if they back up Ranger Snotty's position.

PO'd in NC.

 

[Meatwad]

Taking the high road is best as you were his representation of everyone in the hobby right at that moment. Its true that it isn't a motorized vehicle (in my state's vehicle code anyway) but they'll interpret the law how they feel. Best to just agree and go somewhere else.

 

[badhoopty]

our group was once kicked out of a forest preserve in chicago. same thing with the motorized vehicles comments.

 

[JatoTheRipper]

He sounds like an arrogant asshole. Bikes pose much more of a risk to other people. I'd look into it if I were you.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

[THX_138]

I've been down the same path in life dealing with rangers at state parks and national parks..(pun intended)

Obviously boils down to the terminology of
"motorized vehicle"...

But the key terminology that will get you the WIN every time is
"motorized vehicle with conveyance of a human being"

Remote control toys do not fall under the "motorized vehicle" rule innany government or state park. There may be uninformed rangers/employees that do not know... but that's just it... they do not know.

There will always be the No-No's no matter what, even common sense will cover those.... no traversing sea dunes, washout repairs, tree-holds and areas marked no foot traffic allowed, protected vegetation (expressly marked or not) such as sea oats, state flowers or bushes, earth management/control planting, wildlife and aquatic life harassment etc...

Again... "motorized vehicle" terminology pertains only to a powered (no matter the means of power) vehicle of which conveys a human.
Usually, wheel chairs are always exempt from rule if remaining ON trail only.
Motorized vehicle does not pertain to a toy.

 

[THX_138]

Within the North Carolina State Park Rules they go into great detail about what can and what can not do what and where.

https://www.ncparks.gov/sites/default/files/ncparks/37/15A_NCAC_12B-DPR_Rules_January_2014.pdf

15A NCAC 12B .0501

To which they break down in detail every motorized vehicle from cars to motorized bicycles and even powered personal wheel chairs.
But it boils down to the terminology " conveyance" every time, and in no fashion can a toy convey a human being.

Then you can start looking in each and every individual NC state park and national park rules and guidelines and they pretty much use the same chapter and verse when it comes to their rules on motorized vehicles.

And if dug deaper into their definition pages it's always back to "personal conveyance" when referring to motorized vehicle.

 

[2mtech]

Taking the high road is best as you were his representation of everyone in the hobby right at that moment. Its true that it isn't a motorized vehicle (in my state's vehicle code anyway) but they'll interpret the law how they feel. Best to just agree and go somewhere else.

You're right, of course. Still irks me when a junior public servant deems themselves the marshal of a public domain.

 

[2mtech]

But the key terminology that will get you the WIN every time is
"motorized vehicle with conveyance of a human being"

Thanks for the detailed reply!

The part that got me about the listed park rules is that they never clearly specify the "conveyance of a human being" disclaimer when referring to a motorized vehicle, although it is certainly insinuated. The mentality of one who interprets the policy as anti-RC would righteously exploit the "any other self-propelled motorized vehicle" in support of their position.

The battle will continue "thumbsup"

 

[Ninomaniac]

Vehicle is a word that describes something used to transport people or goods. That's it.

 

[snapon boy]

In Texas we have lost several parks due to rc guys spray painting to gate markers on promonate rocks and side walks. I'd like to meet who ever did it at night. So now if you show up with an rc they go straight to tickets and your personaly banned from the place

149 r/c worx /scalerfab Team Driver

 

[Robbob]

I've been down the same path in life dealing with rangers at state parks and national parks..(pun intended)

Obviously boils down to the terminology of
"motorized vehicle"...

But the key terminology that will get you the WIN every time is
"motorized vehicle with conveyance of a human being"

Remote control toys do not fall under the "motorized vehicle" rule innany government or state park. There may be uninformed rangers/employees that do not know... but that's just it... they do not know.

There will always be the No-No's no matter what, even common sense will cover those.... no traversing sea dunes, washout repairs, tree-holds and areas marked no foot traffic allowed, protected vegetation (expressly marked or not) such as sea oats, state flowers or bushes, earth management/control planting, wildlife and aquatic life harassment etc...

Again... "motorized vehicle" terminology pertains only to a powered (no matter the means of power) vehicle of which conveys a human.
Usually, wheel chairs are always exempt from rule if remaining ON trail only.
Motorized vehicle does not pertain to a toy.

We got kicked out of Devils Chasm years ago because of that 'motor vehicle' part. They always told us where to stay, dont go into the chasm and never seemed to be a problem.

One year they did landscaping and dressing up of the parking lot and we happened to show up with lot more people ..... that was the last time I know of going there. Heard lot of single drivers having problems just driving their trucks around for fun too.

Problem with the definition though is they can come back that the increase of 'off the trail' traffic is environmentally unstable (or some hoopla like that) and still kick you out. Most wheelchairs arent going to far off the trails plus restricting them would fall into a different mess.

 

[2mtech]

In Texas we have lost several parks due to rc guys spray painting to gate markers on promonate rocks and side walks. I'd like to meet who ever did it at night. So now if you show up with an rc they go straight to tickets and your personaly banned from the place

149 r/c worx /scalerfab Team Driver

Yeah, that's always the real problem. Also why I had six places to fish when the AF abandoned me here 22 years ago and I have zero places now.

 

[2mtech]

We got kicked out of Devils Chasm years ago because of that 'motor vehicle' part. They always told us where to stay, dont go into the chasm and never seemed to be a problem.

One year they did landscaping and dressing up of the parking lot and we happened to show up with lot more people ..... that was the last time I know of going there. Heard lot of single drivers having problems just driving their trucks around for fun too.

Problem with the definition though is they can come back that the increase of 'off the trail' traffic is environmentally unstable (or some hoopla like that) and still kick you out. Most wheelchairs arent going to far off the trails plus restricting them would fall into a different mess.

It's all really making me seriously reconsider the trip we've been planning through Wyoming and Utah next month to hit some western trailing. I guess if all we had was an untrained dog and some undisciplined kids it'd all be good.

 

[altd896]

This is not unique to the US we have the same problems sometimes even all the way down here on the opposite side of the world.

The problem with that definition is while it specifically nominates some things as prohibited & wheelchairs as permitted, it unfortunately is so vague that the exact rule you say should allow your trail rig also by default has to allow 1/5 Gas buggies (I do realise some parks are an unlikely place to take these)
Equally the same rule the Ranger can use to exclude the Gas buggies (which you have to assume is likely for noise & environmental damage) also excludes all motorised toys & most public servants won't run the risk of trying to justify why 1 is excluded & another not, so they'll take the line that protects their job, they're all prohibited.
It may seem over officious, you can say "they should cut us some slack", but it's not your job gone when someone complains higher up & he/she gets hauled over the coals for it. East Coast guys here got kicked from a National Park after some old biddy complained to the Ranger about the cars & the chalk marks on the rock.

If the rules defined exactly where "electric rc vehicles slower than 10mph" * fits in their rules it would mean the poor Ranger on the day doesn't have to make an instantaneous ruling.

* I use these word as theres some parks down here we're allowed access to only by applying to the Parks service for a permit (because we're doing things as a larger group outside the hiking/cycling), we use that definition to make it clear what we're doing & that we're slow & not an environmental hazard.

 

[Natedog]

I've been down the same path in life dealing with rangers at state parks and national parks..(pun intended)

Obviously boils down to the terminology of
"motorized vehicle"...

But the key terminology that will get you the WIN every time is
"motorized vehicle with conveyance of a human being"

Remote control toys do not fall under the "motorized vehicle" rule innany government or state park. There may be uninformed rangers/employees that do not know... but that's just it... they do not know.

There will always be the No-No's no matter what, even common sense will cover those.... no traversing sea dunes, washout repairs, tree-holds and areas marked no foot traffic allowed, protected vegetation (expressly marked or not) such as sea oats, state flowers or bushes, earth management/control planting, wildlife and aquatic life harassment etc...

Again... "motorized vehicle" terminology pertains only to a powered (no matter the means of power) vehicle of which conveys a human.
Usually, wheel chairs are always exempt from rule if remaining ON trail only.
Motorized vehicle does not pertain to a toy.

2mtech,

Sorry to hear you were hassled by a pita ranger, we've been hassled about RC crawlers and even a couple times by a lazy ranger in a car while we were mountain biking at night, power trippin or something. :ror: They should concentrate on the drunks with loud music, throwing cigarette butts on the ground and generally annoying other people. "thumbsup"

THX_138, well stated! "thumbsup"