Narrow Axle Options w/Lots of Steering Angle

[Tommy R]

Hey folks, I'm looking for some suggestions and feedback...

Here's the deal. I've decided to go with a narrower axle set for my C1 Jeep LJ. The Axials have great strength, excellent steering angle (VP 8*), and the OD/UD gears really help with the steering and climbing. This rig turns incredibly well! There's just one problem.....they're way too wide.

I'm willing to sacrifice some performance, but not too much. I'm looking for reliable axles that are narrower, offer excellent steering, and are reasonably strong. Ideally, it'd be great to get OD/UD gears, too.

Keep in mind I'm running a Dinky RC drivetrain so I can't run any kind of OD/UD transfer case. Any OD/UD gearing would need to be done via the axles.

My initial thought was to run Yota axles up front (2.53 gear) and a K44 rear (3.00 gear). This would get me a good OD/UD gear set, but the Yota axles just don't offer enough steering throw. Is there a way to mod the Yota axles to get more steering?

I may consider K44 axles front/rear, but I'm not sure how much steering throw they offer. How to they compare to the Yotas or Axials?

Are there other axles options I'm not aware of? Or maybe a way to mod the Axial axles for a narrower track width? I'm open to suggestions here. :mrgreen: I really wish RC4WD offered OD/UD gearing options for these narrower axles.

Thanks!
Tommy

 

[Tommy R]

Bump! Anyone have thoughts on this?

 

[theloudone]

i guess you could get some beefed up mrc axles

 

[hotwheels000]

I like my K-44 axles,with the cvds they offer decent steering. I am sure you are aware as you go narrower the wheels start to get into the links and shocks if you have to much steering...so, as always,its a compromise or a whole bunch of re engineering to reach your goal.

Why cant you run the dinky head unit into a different T case like the rc4wd unit to acheive od/ud ? Might solve part of the issue....

I to wish rc4wd would make od/ud gears,maybe they are working on it:shock::wink:

 

[Tommy R]

Yeah, I'm curious how much of a challenge it'll be to get steering clearnace with such narrow axles. I hope it's not *too* bad. I would at least hope I don't have to limit the steering of the K44s. Devlin, are you running K44s on an SCX10 or something else?

I potentially could run a different t-case, but the Dinky t-case includes a whole Axial tranny so it's got much needed gearing reduction. Not sure what RC4WD may offer that would provide the necessary reduction, plus the option to over/underdrive?

If RC4WD is working on some gear sets to make OD/UD available, I wish they'd let us know. Would be nice to know this information before I purchase something else! "thumbsup"

 

[JeremyH]

How narrow? AR60's are pretty darn easy to narrow and the stock shafts are easy to chop and flat spot. They can also get a diff shave like a 14b pretty easily.

Here's one that I narrowed a while back:

 

[Tommy R]

Interesting! Well, I'm looking for something 1/2"-1" narrower overall than a stock SCX10 axle. Think this could be done with an AR60? I'd really only have to do the front. I could pick up a Yota axle or something comparable for the rear.

 

[JeremyH]

I can measure that one for you this evening.

I only narrowed the axle on the outside of the link mounts, but as you can see, there is plenty more room to narrow it on the inside of the link mount on the long side.

If you narrow inside of the link mount, you wont be able to use the truss, but RowdyRacing has started to make a replacement truss for them so you can bolt a plate to the top to use for uppers:
(on the right)

You should be able to narrow the rear just as easily. "thumbsup"

 

[JeremyH]

Tommy, that axle I posted earlier measures 8 1/8" from hex pin hole to hex pin hole. It looks like another 2" could be removed from the long side. I did all of this with a scroll saw, but a band saw or dremmel would work. I sleeved it with thin brass tubing and just JB welded the sleeve inside. The housings have a molding mark on the top that helps you line everything up. After all of this you end up with the lightest, most scale looking axle out there that has some bad ass steering and replacement shafts are pretty darn cheap. "thumbsup"

 

[hotwheels000]

Devlin, are you running K44s on an SCX10 or something else?

Yes, K-44s on a axial scx chassis and skid,1.9 bajaclaws (c1 tire) no clearance issues to report.

 

[Tommy R]

Jeremy, you've got me thinking pretty hard about narrowing some Wraith axles. Where does Rowdy Racing advertise those mounts? I'm trying to envision how they mount, but am still not quite seeing it.

So let me see if I've got the process straight... I would cut the required material from the axle housing. Keep the splined ends unmolested. Then sleeve the axles with brass tubing (11/32"?) and apply some JB Weld to the whole assembly to secure it all back together?

I thought I'd come across a "how to" on it, but can't find it now... D'oh!

 

[Tommy R]

Here it is.... http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/general-crawlers/360552-narrowed-wraith-axles-easy-way.html

Is this the commonly accepted way to narrow AR60s? Then just shorten and grind flats on the axle shafts and install XR10/Wraith c's and knuckles?

 

[DRTMI]

RC4WD axles are for looks only, not strength.

 

[JeremyH]

Where does Rowdy Racing advertise those mounts? I'm trying to envision how they mount, but am still not quite seeing it.

I am not sure that he does advertise them. He just started making them.
Here is a shot of them mounted:
http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/axia...24-krawls-shafty-villian-s-9.html#post4124902

So let me see if I've got the process straight... I would cut the required material from the axle housing. Keep the splined ends unmolested. Then sleeve the axles with brass tubing (11/32"?) and apply some JB Weld to the whole assembly to secure it all back together?

Here it is.... http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/general-crawlers/360552-narrowed-wraith-axles-easy-way.html

Is this the commonly accepted way to narrow AR60s? Then just shorten and grind flats on the axle shafts and install XR10/Wraith c's and knuckles?

Yep, that's how I narrowed mine. "thumbsup"

Here is another way people have been narrowing these axles:
http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/axia...24-krawls-shafty-villian-s-3.html#post4098402
http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/axia...24-krawls-shafty-villian-s-5.html#post4099541
He talks about his reasoning here:
http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/axia...24-krawls-shafty-villian-s-6.html#post4106468

Another cool thing you can do with these axles, since they are symmetrical, is flip the rear axle over (so that the pumpkin is pass side drop and opposite from the front)....this will greatly reduce torque twist. I "accidentally" did this on my wraith (after buying the wrong part) and noticed the benefits and liked it, so I kept running them that way. My wraith is pretty fast and I can set it on asphalt, pull full throttle and there is almost zero TT.

 

[Tommy R]

RC4WD axles are for looks only, not strength.

Thanks, but I'm aware of the strengths/weaknesses of the RC4WD axles. ;-)


Jeremy, thanks a ton for all the links and info! I definitely want to give this a try now. I think it's time to place an order with RPP or locate some used Wraith axles. "thumbsup"

 

[War Pig]

RC4WD axles are for looks only, not strength.

I have a set of K44 axles that are holding up really well. Do you have some?

Another cool thing you can do with these axles, since they are symmetrical, is flip the rear axle over (so that the pumpkin is pass side drop and opposite from the front)....this will greatly reduce torque twist.

Only issue I have with that is reduced ground clearance from the diff hanging down on both sides.

Tommy, I'm really digging my K44 axles, they steer pretty darn tight, have tons of ground clearance and are VERY scale looking. I've been running them behind an underdriven t-case and a 13t Holmes Crawlmaster on 3s. I love them. The case of the Wraith axle is just too big for me when you narrow it.

 

[Tommy R]

Thanks for the info, Tim! I think if RC4WD offered OD/UD gears for the K44 my decision would be made. Since they don't, I'm leaning heavily toward the custom AR60s.

I just ordered a AR60 housing. I'll narrow it down to see how it looks. If I like it, I'll build it up, as well as a second one. If I don't like it, I'll mortgage the house for some K44s. :ror:

 

[JeremyH]

Only issue I have with that is reduced ground clearance from the diff hanging down on both sides.

They are pretty easy to shave for more diff clearance. Clay (carterfab) has a post floating around here that shows exactly how to do it. And when you are finished, just bolt up a piece of delrin to seal it up. "thumbsup"

 

[War Pig]

Thanks for the info, Tim! I think if RC4WD offered OD/UD gears for the K44 my decision would be made. Since they don't, I'm leaning heavily toward the custom AR60s.

Oh, that's right. You don't have one of my overdrive t-cases do you?

They are pretty easy to shave for more diff clearance. Clay (carterfab) has a post floating around here that shows exactly how to do it. And when you are finished, just bolt up a piece of delrin to seal it up. "thumbsup"

I love the way he shaves them but I had enough trouble slamming the offset diffs into rocks with the '34D, I couldn't imagine having a diff on both sides

 

[Tommy R]

Well, it's been a while, but today I'm finally cutting down my test Wraith axle. The thing I'm concerned with is that I'll need to remove a grand total of 67mm from the axle width in order to meet the width of a K44! That's a LOT of material. This is according to a Wraith hex-to-hex measurement of 243mm and the K44's measurement of 176mm. I have no doubt the axle housing can be shortened enough. What concerns me is how feasible will it be to fit a 3 link and track bar mount on/over the axle housing. Space is going to be VERY tight, I'd imagine. I'm also interested to see where the suspension link/shock mounts end up and how they'll match up to the stock SCX10 framerails. Hopefully I'll have some pics to share later today...