Why? There isn't anything that 'magical' (its not built by the gay company that has a logo of an apple with a bite out of) about it. Unless you are putting leaf springs on a Class 1, but no leaf springs on a Honcho, then sure the SCX10 would probably be better (or any non-leaf spring chassis).
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NIRC. Chit Chat
- Thread starter sally1800
- Start date
Why? There isn't anything that 'magical' (its not built by the gay company that has a logo of an apple with a bite out of) about it. Unless you are putting leaf springs on a Class 1, but no leaf springs on a Honcho, then sure the SCX10 would probably be better (or any non-leaf spring chassis).
johnnyh66
Scale Detail Engineering
leaf springs are a big problem along with tire height and articulation... when talking a "scale" C1 vs the Honcho.
bring it! its really a class 2, but i'm trying to do something different with being able to swap out bumpers and bodies (and obviously wheels & tires) for either class 2 or class 1.
heres a teaser, i should be done march 2013 at the rate of my builds...
them gcm metalhead axles have super300's front and rear... cha-ching...
I am confused. What is the comparison of a Honcho, which is a class 2 truck, to a Class 1. You can start with a Honcho to make a Class one, but by time you get there, you are going to have to lose some of the capability. As long as it is class one on class one, that should not be an issue.
Or did I miss something in the early part of this discussion?
Or did I miss something in the early part of this discussion?
johnnyh66
Scale Detail Engineering
No, I think we're confused... about the Honcho.
i was just making the case that a honcho on class1 wb and tires would outperform my f350. now if you were to take a honcho and put it on leafs i think my little piggy f350 would be competitive. but not against a linked honcho setup for class1.
dont get me wrong i still plan to compete with the f350 but i know if i want to be comp-worthy to build something less... complex.
and all that babble is why i still prefer the casual trail run gtg than a comp. because with gtg i dont have to worry about doing good, just gotta try not to burn the forest down...
johnnyh66
Scale Detail Engineering
So, will the C1 body just fit over top of the tube work or is the tube work removable some how? I see it's welded to the frame up front!
Looks pretty nice "thumbsup"
class 1 has full body with tubework underneath, nothing welded to the frame. its all bolt on.
Not a problem, it is confusing.
Class-1 “Street” Details
• Vehicle must have a windshield that fills the entire windshield frame
• Full width bumpers are required on the front and rear of the vehicle. Bumpers that are molded into the body qualify. A rear bumper is not required on a flatbed, but adding one to the flatbed will gain the additional scale points. (Bumpers are measured from the outsides and must be the width of your windshield).
• Wheels must be aligned within the body wheel wells (center of wheels to center of wheel wells +/- 1/2 inch total combined)
• The vehicles body must be mostly intact. Mild trimming such as flairs & removing a hardtop allowed only. If hardtop is removed full interior is required. (no extreme trimming of bodies allowed See below.)
• The tread of the tires cannot extend outside of the wheel wells more then 1/2 of the tread width, flairs can be added to reach min. spec.
• Vehicle must run a full length rail chassis (The rail chassis must be as long as the vehicles wheelbase)(Tamiya CC-01 Chassis are allowed)
• Truggies are not allowed, flatbeds with full length rail chassis are allowed. The bed must be as wide as the cab the entire length of the bed. Cab only not allowed.
• Tires can never extend beyond the body’s bumpers or the rear of any truck bed. (Any stingers, fairleads, shackles, bolts, etc are not considered part of a bumper when determining this.)
• Dovetailing is not allowed.
• Sectioning or narrowing of the body is not allowed.
• Bobbing a truck bed is allowed, but must follow All body specs
• Boat sides are not allowed.
• 106mm / 4.19" Max tire size including spares
• Gates will be a minimum of 11" wide (so mind your width)
So with careful choice of tires and wheels, you could make a Honcho class 1 and replacing the body. The Dingo would fit better. Adding leafs adds to the "Scaleness" and points, but subtracts to it's trainability. Scale points really affect the result on Class 1.
Class-1 “Street” Details
• Vehicle must have a windshield that fills the entire windshield frame
• Full width bumpers are required on the front and rear of the vehicle. Bumpers that are molded into the body qualify. A rear bumper is not required on a flatbed, but adding one to the flatbed will gain the additional scale points. (Bumpers are measured from the outsides and must be the width of your windshield).
• Wheels must be aligned within the body wheel wells (center of wheels to center of wheel wells +/- 1/2 inch total combined)
• The vehicles body must be mostly intact. Mild trimming such as flairs & removing a hardtop allowed only. If hardtop is removed full interior is required. (no extreme trimming of bodies allowed See below.)
• The tread of the tires cannot extend outside of the wheel wells more then 1/2 of the tread width, flairs can be added to reach min. spec.
• Vehicle must run a full length rail chassis (The rail chassis must be as long as the vehicles wheelbase)(Tamiya CC-01 Chassis are allowed)
• Truggies are not allowed, flatbeds with full length rail chassis are allowed. The bed must be as wide as the cab the entire length of the bed. Cab only not allowed.
• Tires can never extend beyond the body’s bumpers or the rear of any truck bed. (Any stingers, fairleads, shackles, bolts, etc are not considered part of a bumper when determining this.)
• Dovetailing is not allowed.
• Sectioning or narrowing of the body is not allowed.
• Bobbing a truck bed is allowed, but must follow All body specs
• Boat sides are not allowed.
• 106mm / 4.19" Max tire size including spares
• Gates will be a minimum of 11" wide (so mind your width)
So with careful choice of tires and wheels, you could make a Honcho class 1 and replacing the body. The Dingo would fit better. Adding leafs adds to the "Scaleness" and points, but subtracts to it's trainability. Scale points really affect the result on Class 1.
i was just making the case that a honcho on class1 wb and tires would outperform my f350. now if you were to take a honcho and put it on leafs i think my little piggy f350 would be competitive. but not against a linked honcho setup for class1.
dont get me wrong i still plan to compete with the f350 but i know if i want to be comp-worthy to build something less... complex.
and all that babble is why i still prefer the casual trail run gtg than a comp. because with gtg i dont have to worry about doing good, just gotta try not to burn the forest down...
I am not convinced of that, remember this is trail class not rock crawling. The leafs will suffer on big obstacles but that is to what Class 1 is all about.I think you leader would do well as it showed when you and I and Chris ran the Roselle creek bed last year.
another teaser. here you can kinda see the start on the main interior cage and shock hoops w/o any front or rear bumper components...
Hmmm, a Samurai huh?
johnnyh66
Scale Detail Engineering
Couldn't just add a flatbed to the Honcho and have a C1?
And the Dingo would need a full interior since it's topless... or add a top and it's C1?
Yes to all three, but you would suffer BADLY in the points department.
Honcho and Dingo are the same thing; the difference is body and the Dingo is .9" shorter I do believe (12.3" vs 11.4" as I recall).
Dingo does have an interior... its just the 2/3rds one, which doesn't garner as many points.
Honcho cab (or the Jeep Comanche cab) [you could use a Dingo chassis too, its the same thing anyways] plus a flat bed and 4.19 tires would be C1. Be piss poor in scale points though. You'd need to work up a full interior for it to get back a bunch of the points. And with the Honcho, probably want to use the Dingo front and rear bumpers. The Honcho front bumper isn't very scale (not for a C1).
If I was going to do a C1, I'd probably do a SCX10 frame with a Silverado body, leaf springs in the back, and try for an IFS up front. Full cab and cargo interiors.
johnnyh66
Scale Detail Engineering
johnnyh66
Scale Detail Engineering
With the Dingo, how many points are we talking? I mean... you throw a ragtop on it, half a driver, cms, some lights and the plastic tools and you gotta be about there.
There is a lot more to it than a few add ons. You can push 40 to 60 points out of a good class one if your club allows that much.
Scale Points
Scale points are to be awarded on a per course basis at 50% of a vehicles total value (rounded down if necessary).
Minimum/Maximum values are to be determined by the event organizers.
Bed :
• Tube bed OR Flat Bed: metal -3, plastic -1
• Bed mounted headache rack or roll bar: metal -2 Plastic -1
Truggy & back halved truck
•Truggy/back halved truck: metal -4, plastic -2
(Must replace the ladder frame from the rear of the skid Min. to the back of the rear axles pumpkin or beyond to be legal.. Must have a roll bar hoop. Must have integrated shock mounts. Must be a structural part of the rear of the vehicle. (If your bed does not meet ALL of the preceding criteria, it does not count as a truggy bed)).
Tuber: metal -8, plastic -4
A tuber consists of a complete body structure where the front, cab, and rear sections are comprised entirely of structural tubework.
• Rigid Metal/plastic body panels -1
Interior cage or exo-cage: (-3 metal -1 Plastic) per row of seats protected. (Must have down bars and cross bars in front & behind each row.)
Tube accessories
• Sliders: (both sides) metal -3, plastic -1
• Tube fenders: Metal -1 per pair
• Integrated tube shock mounts: metal -1 (per pair)
Body
• Hard body: full -8, Cab -4
• Drop bed : -3
• Complete Custom built body: (metal or hard plastic, no lexan) full -4, Cab -2 (in addition to hard body points)
• Inner fender wells: -1 per pair
Bumpers (items must be chassis mounted and separate from the body)
• Bumpers : metal -3 each , plastic -1 each
• Stinger/grill guard: -1
• Spare tire carrier (must be bumper mounted): -1
Exterior roof rack / light bar (may only choose one)
• roof rack: metal: -2, plastic -1
• Roof top light bar : metal -1
Interior:
• 3D interior: 2 seat -3, 4 seat -4, SUV cargo area -1.
• 2D/half interior: 2 seat -1, 4 seat -2.
• Realistic Scale Human figures: full(knees up) -2, part -1(torso up) (max 2 figures)
Suspension/Drive train/Steering:
• Leaf springs (front/rear): -3 ea, -7 both.
• Multiple axles: 3 driven axles -3, 4 (or more) driven axles -5
• Chassis mounted steering servo: -5 (front) rear -2 (Class 3 only)
• Transfer case: -4.
• 3D engine: -4.
Realistic exterior items (max -6 pts): Items that are non functional but you would see on a trail truck
• Fuel cell, exhaust, jerry can, hubs on all wheels, steering stabilizer, disc/drum brakes on all wheels, mirrors(2), wipers(2), antenna, license plate, Fire extinguisher, trail tools (Hi-lift jack, etc.)first aid, Etc. -1 each
Functional items (max -8 pts):
• Tow strap, -D-ring, Pull Pal, sand ladder, hitch, Etc. -1 each
• Headlights(2) and taillights(2) -2
• Winch -2 Each
• Full size spare tire. -3
Man I hate Halloween, all these rug rats all over my lawn. Bah, humbug.