Questions for Gun Control Advocates

[67mustang]

I wasn't diverting the convo. I was just admitting that the world does looks different from inside my mother in laws house. Environment has alot to do with values and world view.

So I will admit to you that Trump has been wrong and that is the reason for his current position in the polls. I will argue with you when you set foot out on your own. You just Let Us Know.

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

I wasn't diverting the convo. I was just admitting that the world does looks different from inside my mother in laws house. Environment has alot to do with values and world view.

So I will admit to you that Trump has been wrong and that is the reason for his current position in the polls. I will argue with you when you set foot out on your own. You just Let Us Know.

:ror:

Admittedly, it's not the American dream, but my situation is what it is and won't be that way forever. I haven't always lived here.

The only reason Trump has ever done well is because he is a phenomenal salesman. Unfortunately he can't seem to sell much without getting into legal trouble because he couldn't deliver. That's pretty much what's happening now.

 

[67mustang]

:ror:

Admittedly, it's not the American dream, but my situation is what it is and won't be that way forever. I haven't always lived here.

The only reason Trump has ever done well is because he is a phenomenal salesman. Unfortunately he can't seem to sell much without getting into legal trouble because he couldn't deliver. That's pretty much what's happening now.

Yeah I'd rather talk politics with the Head of the Household...put your Mother In Law on.

 

[RANOVRU]

Yeah I'd rather talk politics with the Head of the Household...put your Mother In Law on.

You don't realize how much cred your losing by making statements like that.

I'd rather talk to someone who's more intelligent than more financially independent.


You would think that those two would go hand in hand but in the wonderful world that is capitalism it's not always the case.

 

[NoobCrawler]

They do, they interpret it differently is all. And sadly that's how legal things work. Interpretations.

I expect every American to know because of 1 simple fact. When you are an immigrant and come here you have to know it to become a US citizen.

Just being born here doesn't mean you get a free pass on knowing the constitution and its protections.

You can buy any sort of Long Gun second hand without any governmental permissions.

I disagree, it still allows you and I to own guns. You just have to do all of 15 minutes worth of work. It doesn't disallow you from owning a gun if you pass the very easy to pass background check. And the 2nd never states "Right to bear arms, without any checks or balances on your criminal background". It is left open ended - this is the interpretation issue.

That is your state. In my state, and many others, I can open carry any legally owned pistol on my hip, I can also strap on a long gun and walk around with that. Open Carry is a state mandated law. The federal government (held to the Constitution) has no law against open carry or concealed carry.

I prefer to never open carry. It allows people to know I have a gun and a chance to try to steal it. Additionally open gives a mass shooter a target of who to hit first to take out his threats. Concealed, only I know I'm carrying.

Regardless of it being state or fed gov't, the point still stands that I can't freely bear arms-legally. Here in delightful CA, you need to have a legit reason/fear for your life in order to get a conceal carry. I haven't tried it yet personally, but I have a friend who's been trying for awhile now...

It's more work than you think. On both points. :ror:

If you've got a list of things that Trump has been right about, I'd love to see it.

Trump is an interesting puzzle. I think he was sort of right on the refugee thing. While not directly the same, in my mind, it has merit. She was brought here via a difference type of temporary status from a known ISIS area. I certainly know better than to blanket every Muslim is out there to kill Americans, but what do we do? Just let them in & keep our fingers crossed...ya know. Its a shitty situation for all the good ones, but isn't that it? A few bad apples ruin the bunch. This whole thread is an example of that saying.

 

[NoobCrawler]

You don't realize how much cred your losing by making statements like that.

I'd rather talk to someone who's more intelligent than more financially independent.


You would think that those two would go hand in hand but in the wonderful world that is capitalism it's not always the case.

Indeed. Whenever someone has to resort to personal insults, the validity of what they say goes in the crapper.

 

[johnnyh66]

You don't realize how much cred your losing by making statements like that.

I'd rather talk to someone who's more intelligent than more financially independent.


You would think that those two would go hand in hand but in the wonderful world that is capitalism it's not always the case.

My funnies were at least relevant... IMO.

Seriously, who is mentally fit to CC or even own a gun?

How about smokers?
They show a lack of personal well being as they actively consume a product that they know will kill them.

How about seriously overweight people?
Unless they suffer from some sort of health disorder, they too show a lack of concern for their well being and a consistent track record of making poor decisions.

How about people who drink or smoke pot?
There are times that their mental state is seriously altered.

Someone who wholly subscribes to religion?
IMO, they don't think for themselves and are under the influence of someone else with motives of their own.

Someone who suffers from depression?
Someone who seriously believes Obama is out to get them?
Someone who is constantly rejected by women?
Someone who failed out of school?
Someone who was fired for poor work ethic?

 

[johnnyh66]

So, I've had a lot of thoughts on this topic... but not much time to comment.
A lot is going on this week...

 

[67mustang]

It wasnt an insult. When the media conducts a poll they ask a caller if they are the "head of the household". I am not dumb enough to argue with liberal internet warriors worried about 'cred' that lack that title. Id rather argue with my Yale educated Liberal lawyer sister who represents and defends illegal immigrants for a living.

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

It wasnt an insult. When the media conducts a poll they ask a caller if they are the "head of the household". I am not dumb enough to argue with liberal internet warriors worried about 'cred' that lack that title. Id rather argue with my Yale educated Liberal lawyer sister who represents and defends illegal immigrants for a living.

I'm pretty sure it was, and now I know why you like Trump so much. When you can't debate, you berate. Then when you get called out on it, you backpedal and play the victim.

 

[RANOVRU]

My funnies were at least relevant... IMO.

Seriously, who is mentally fit to CC or even own a gun?

How about smokers?
They show a lack of personal well being as they actively consume a product that they know will kill them.

How about seriously overweight people?
Unless they suffer from some sort of health disorder, they too show a lack of concern for their well being and a consistent track record of making poor decisions.

How about people who drink or smoke pot?
There are times that their mental state is seriously altered.

Someone who wholly subscribes to religion?
IMO, they don't think for themselves and are under the influence of someone else with motives of their own.

Someone who suffers from depression?
Someone who seriously believes Obama is out to get them?
Someone who is constantly rejected by women?
Someone who failed out of school?
Someone who was fired for poor work ethic?

It's talk like that that makes it hard to meet in the middle.

Had a bad day at work? Shouldn't own a gun. Behind on the mortgage? Shouldn't own a gun. PMS'ing? Shouldn't own a gun.


With that mindset you could break anyone down to not be fit to own a gun. And that is the agenda behind that mindset.

 

[NoobCrawler]

My funnies were at least relevant... IMO.

Seriously, who is mentally fit to CC or even own a gun?

How about smokers?
They show a lack of personal well being as they actively consume a product that they know will kill them.

How about seriously overweight people?
Unless they suffer from some sort of health disorder, they too show a lack of concern for their well being and a consistent track record of making poor decisions.

How about people who drink or smoke pot?
There are times that their mental state is seriously altered.

Someone who wholly subscribes to religion?
IMO, they don't think for themselves and are under the influence of someone else with motives of their own.

Someone who suffers from depression?
Someone who seriously believes Obama is out to get them?
Someone who is constantly rejected by women?
Someone who failed out of school?
Someone who was fired for poor work ethic?

That would be up to the ones doing the background checks. All of these are great examples, when used in excess. And of course, the individuals mindset.

While I don't carry, I would if I could. I fit a few criteria of the above you mention. But I can 100% say that regardless of my situation I would NEVER go on a shooting rampage. Because I don't have a victim complex. I know these problems are mine.

That's really what it boils down to, I think, with those calling for stricter checks. But how to best...weed out these, 'flaws' that nearly everyone on the planet possess, at one time or another. Because...we're human. You can't just ask them, because a lot of them hide their true selves(speaking from experience) from people.

So, how to tell if someone is lying? Hook everyone applying to buy a gun to a lie detector, maybe twice, by two different techs on two different machines, just to be sure? There is no sure fire way to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. But we can allow those who would stop them to have the ability to do so.

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

That would be up to the ones doing the background checks. All of these are great examples, when used in excess. And of course, the individuals mindset.

The current gun laws are mostly fine, but won't really be effective until they include point of transfer background checks. If you already know you can't legally own a weapon, all you have to do is buy privately. No, it won't stop all the crazies, but it will make it harder for them to acquire something they shouldn't.

 

[67mustang]

I'm pretty sure it was, and now I know why you like Trump so much. When you can't debate, you berate. Then when you get called out on it, you backpedal and play the victim.

Play the victim? I dont have anything to do with your current residence. I should have put it in a meme so you could digest it without emotional stress.

I am not even a Trump supporter but it is disingenuous to dismiss the fact that large segments of society are uneasy about ISIS and dont support the current situation. I am a former chair for the Dems and I promise you the only reason they support the Obama inaction is for political purposes only. All this is happening just before the election cycle and if you think 2012 midterm turnout cant happen again you are wrong. Few more jihad missions on American soil and Dems will stay home election day.

In all fairness...if my mother in law provided a roof over my head, I am pretty sure I would subscribe to the same current political perspective as yourself.

 

[alabamaman]

I am bad late to the party . Will throw in my worthless two cents .
gun show loop hole. I have been to more than a hundred of them.
now you have insta check. I have no real opinion on this , but back in the day you had to fill out paperwork and wait five days for a hand gun.
the so called loop hole people might be talking about , comes not from new guns but used ones. I have bought and traded guns at shows with dealers and patrons.
Immediately followed with a call to one of my law enforcement friends to make sure it was not stolen.
in the past 20 years , any hand gun I have sold ,the buyer would have to show me his or her c.c. permit.
with things the way they are now a days, I carry concealed everywhere I go but to my work.
my inner gun nut was killed off by my job years ago. Now as a father of two , I feel like I should do all in my power to be able tp protect my family in the unlikely event of being faced with an armed attacker.
I am not a paranoid, right wing freak, but to me it is like insurance. I pay for insurance every month ,but do not expect to have a wreck.
I hope and pray I am never put in a situation where I feel the need to draw a weapon against another human. However I hope I would not hesitate if my kids or wife were in harms way.
I might be a bad person in veiw of most of society, I take my wife and kids shooting with me. They each know how to load ,shoot and safely handel every firearm we own.

Do these things make me the horrible monster right wing gun owner that liberals rant about ?

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

Play the victim? I dont have anything to do with your current residence. I should have put it in a meme so you could digest it without emotional stress.

No stress here, bruh.

I am not even a Trump supporter but it is disingenuous to dismiss the fact that large segments of society are uneasy about ISIS and dont support the current situation. I am a former chair for the Dems and I promise you the only reason they support the Obama inaction is for political purposes only. All this is happening just before the election cycle and if you think 2012 midterm turnout cant happen again you are wrong. Few more jihad missions on American soil and Dems will stay home election day.

In all fairness...if my mother in law provided a roof over my head, I am pretty sure I would subscribe to the same current political perspective as yourself.

Of course they are uneasy, everyone is uneasy, but that doesn't mean we should rush into booting all the Muslims out, or move to keep new ones out.

You and Jato should pair up and look into what ISIS wants and is trying to do, which is exactly the same thing Al Queda tried to do: 1) get us into an end-of-the-world ground war, and 2) build support by getting us to demonize all of Islam.

There is a reason why we (and everyone else) haven't sent troops to Syria. It is exactly what they want, and it gives validity to their twisted prophecies. Instead, we lend air support and supplies so that the locals can do it instead. All western countries that are actively involved are on board with this. It's not because Obama is weak kneed about it, it's because that is everyones current strategy.

There is a reason why we should not and will not gather up all the Muslims in America and either deport or imprison them, or lock them out. Even publicly suggesting it (especially by someone running for president) is enough to sway people into the ISIS ranks, and builds dissent in the Muslim population here. Us doing so is part of their game plan. It is also highly unconstitutional. Even Dick "Satan" Cheney has come out and said that we absolutely cannot do that. It is patently un-American.

In all fairness? You don't know shit about me or my situation, you just assume the worst, and are completely wrong to boot.

 

[Highmark]

I am not dumb enough to argue with liberal internet warriors worried about 'cred' that lack that title.

I'm still waiting on you to prove me wrong on the whole "80% of terrorist attacks in the U.S. are committed by Muslims" thing from page one.

So again, get me a list or that secret FBI report that isn't available to the public.


Or you know, keep on being that internet warrior or whatever.

 

[67mustang]

I'm still waiting on you to prove me wrong on the whole "80% of terrorist attacks in the U.S. are committed by Muslims" thing from page one.

Thats not what I said. I said that 80% of FBI resources are devoted to terrorism as stated by Comey himself and as reflected in the TURK system.

 

[RANOVRU]

There is a reason why we (and everyone else) haven't sent troops to Syria. It is exactly what they want, and it gives validity to their twisted prophecies. Instead, we lend air support and supplies so that the locals can do it instead. All western countries that are actively involved are on board with this. It's not because Obama is weak kneed about it, it's because that is everyones current strategy.

I disagree. I think it's reverse psychology and that's what they REALLY want. By us thinking that they want us to get into a ground war and we don't go along, that essentially makes us neutral. We and everyone else are not doing anything and are as such sitting ducks for them to play with.

There's no reason but the powers that be why we haven't sent in special forces from all branches and ended this. We found Saddam and Obama. We could at least put a huge dent in this if not end it if we really wanted to.

 

[Highmark]

There is a reason why we should not and will not gather up all the Muslims in America and either deport or imprison them, or lock them out. Even publicly suggesting it (especially by someone running for president) is enough to sway people into the ISIS ranks, and builds dissent in the Muslim population here. Us doing so is part of their game plan. It is also highly unconstitutional. Even Dick "Satan" Cheney has come out and said that we absolutely cannot do that. It is patently un-American.

In all fairness? You don't know shit about me or my situation, you just assume the worst, and are completely wrong to boot.

Do people not get what's so amazing ****ed up about this?

Same process as how Hitler attempted to wipe out the Jews.

Step 1: Demonize a population using fear tactics and propaganda - Hitler used the Jewish control of certain business and the close nit nature of their neighborhoods. Trump and the rest of the crazies will use attacks perpetrated by a few radicals. By the way, why didn't we ban Puerto Ricans when FALN was a thing? Why don't we put people affiliated with the KKK and Aryan Nation in camps? If you look at the data they were groups statistically much more likely to commit atrocities than even radicalized Muslim groups in this country.

Step 2: Sell the deal - give the people a reason to fear the group with the problem whether it be fear or racial superiority or whatever.

Step 3: Dehumanize them and put them in camps, exterminate them. ect.


It's pretty simple. Just don't put people in camps, don't segregate entire sections of the population based on the color of their skin or religious preferences and just be a decent human being to your fellow man.