The words most vendors don't want to hear. "I think someone copied your design".

[Unholy]

I am not sure what RCC is supposed to do about this. Basically all these vendors pay us to advertise their products on the site, as long as they do not break the general rules we have setup here I let them do their thing.

Some people have suggested that we put together a group to approve all new designs and make sure they don't copy other desings. 1. There is not enough daylight for us to analyze every product and become a "mini patent office". 2. It is not our place to tell people what they can and cannot sell.

How far should it be taken, should there only be 1 TVP chassis allowed for TLT's, 1 TVP allowed for Axials, 1 TVP for Wheely Kings? What about knuckles, I'll bet I could go into the vendors section and buy 5 different tlt aluminum knuckles, they all have tiny differences, but do we need to ban 4 of the vendors and only let 1 sell them?

If free reign and free market is the rule, as long as the limited vendor guidelines are met, what recourse would "Vendor X" have if "Vendor Y" uses your website's public forum and/or PM system to bully/threaten/slander/etc. "Vendor X" out of production of a similar version of a not copyrighted or patented product?

Is the website taking a hands off approach?

 

[jason]

what recourse would "Vendor X" have if "Vendor Y" uses your website's public forum and/or PM system to bully/threaten/slander/etc. "Vendor X" out of production of a similar version of a not copyrighted or patented product?

Is the website taking a hands off approach?

If ANYONE, vendor or otherwise are bullied, or threatened, on this site, or by PM we take those matters very seriously and do not tolerate it.

 

[Unholy]

If ANYONE, vendor or otherwise are bullied, or threatened, on this site, or by PM we take those matters very seriously and do not tolerate it.

I am glad to hear that. "thumbsup"

Edit - I notice this thread has a lot of interest by looking at the views, though the post count doesn't reflect that.

 

[binaryterror]

One thought I have. As a man with a good deal of ingenuity and technical knowledge can I copy a vendor's item for my private use?

Let's just make a few things hypothetical. Lets say my friend bought Tuber X from Vender X. Let's say I like it but do not what to pay for it, maybe because I'm cheap, broke, or prefer a challenge. Now lets say I copy everything of the Tuber X to the point it would be hard to distinguish to even Vendor X. I don't sell or offer to sell these. Is this ok?

Now lets say weeks/months down the road I find I don't like it, can I then sell it, and only that copy I made for my own use. Can I know safely put them in the For Sale section. Again not going into making them, but sold then to use the money elsewhere (be it in RC or whatever). Can I sell my used private copy without the Vendor X trying to take actions?

Now of course we could say TVP Chassis X or whatever else. For simplicity I chose Tubers as there are many designs, designers, and exisiting Tubers out there.

 

[jaxcoffee]

One thought I have. As a man with a good deal of ingenuity and technical knowledge can I copy a vendor's item for my private use?

Let's just make a few things hypothetical. Lets say my friend bought Tuber X from Vender X. Let's say I like it but do not what to pay for it, maybe because I'm cheap, broke, or prefer a challenge. Now lets say I copy everything of the Tuber X to the point it would be hard to distinguish to even Vendor X. I don't sell or offer to sell these. Is this ok?

Now lets say weeks/months down the road I find I don't like it, can I then sell it, and only that copy I made for my own use. Can I know safely put them in the For Sale section. Again not going into making them, but sold then to use the money elsewhere (be it in RC or whatever). Can I sell my used private copy without the Vendor X trying to take actions?

Now of course we could say TVP Chassis X or whatever else. For simplicity I chose Tubers as there are many designs, designers, and exisiting Tubers out there.

I would think that just by knowing that it's a design that has already been made by vendor x would keep you from wanting to do the above, just based on ethics. Nuf said!

 

[Double J]

One thought I have. As a man with a good deal of ingenuity and technical knowledge can I copy a vendor's item for my private use?

Let's just make a few things hypothetical. Lets say my friend bought Tuber X from Vender X. Let's say I like it but do not what to pay for it, maybe because I'm cheap, broke, or prefer a challenge. Now lets say I copy everything of the Tuber X to the point it would be hard to distinguish to even Vendor X. I don't sell or offer to sell these. Is this ok?

Now lets say weeks/months down the road I find I don't like it, can I then sell it, and only that copy I made for my own use. Can I know safely put them in the For Sale section. Again not going into making them, but sold then to use the money elsewhere (be it in RC or whatever). Can I sell my used private copy without the Vendor X trying to take actions?

Now of course we could say TVP Chassis X or whatever else. For simplicity I chose Tubers as there are many designs, designers, and exisiting Tubers out there.

I think that if you state in your 4 sale thread, that this is a copy of Tuber X I built my self. It would be OK> for the most part.
But I can see a problem if you claimed it to be Tuber X instead of a copy.

The public has called out others for doing similar dealings.

 

[JeremyH]

I would think that just by knowing that it's a design that has already been made by vendor x would keep you from wanting to do the above, just based on ethics. Nuf said!

No way.

In the first part of this situation, the builder is making something for himself to use personally. Perfectly fine. This is done all of the time.

In the second part of this situation, the builder has made something and will not be advertising it as TuberX. Nothing wrong with that. I'm sure this has been done many of times on this board.

 

[RedNeck Rc]

The more this thread progresses the more I start to see more and more points coming up. So in my eyes as long as you are honest and dont try and profit from stolen or copied ideas than it will most likely be fine.

What about if some one takes a steering knuckle and copies the design but changes the construction material to a alloy or resin of some sort?

side note- is Tuber X a real name, if not then I might call my next one that.

 

[navycrawler]

Maybe I am talking out my arse here, but I work hard for every dollar I earn. When I do get the chance to spend it on my love (RC Crawling) I do my research before buying. If you go on fleabay you will find a ton of replicas of stuff our venders design. I will only buy from an orginal designer i.e. I just recently saved enough money to buy an aftermarket chassis. I did my research and desided what would work best for me. I bought a chassis from a vendor on here and could not beleve the customer support I have recieved. I really feel I have made a new friend. Further more I feel it was money well spent. If another vendor popped up with the same stuff for less $$ I would still work with the original vendor. Just my two cents.

 

[microgoat]

A lot depends on what's being made. Something like a TLT knuckle just won't work if you stray too far from the original design. Same thing with axle C's and lockouts. So some parts are just going to be copies, or very close variations. Not all axle C's are the same, but they all do essentially the same thing. Maybe the new design has an innovation that the "original" didn't, like notches for improved steering. In that case, the variation is legitimate. Same thing for spools and CVD's. They have to meet rigid specs or they just won't fit; there's not much room to get creative.

Beadlock wheels: Everyone makes them, and there's very little difference except in style.* There are so many possible wheel designs, and so many cool 1:1 wheels, that there's no excuse for copying an existing RC design, full stop.

Comp chassis: Copy the link and shock locations and you might as well copy the rest of it. That's what makes a chassis work in the first place. There's nothing magical about the shape of the (insert comp chassis of your choice here)'s TVP's; the whole point is where the holes are drilled. Ditto for using an alternate material. If you can make a carbon-fiber/Lexan/Play-Doh comp chassis, you can figure out the link locations yourself and really make it your own. TVP's all look the same to a large extent. It's possible that a couple guys will find the same setup at the same time. But if one finds it after seeing the other one, that's a no-no.

Scale chassis: Are all copies of my Barnyard Buster. Where's my check?

Tubers: You've got the skills to build one, use a little imagination and do something original. There's no excuse for copying except laziness.

The buyers need to be vigilant, however, and should purchase the ORIGINAL whenever possible. The copies will always be cheaper because they don't have the R&D costs. And who would you rather support: The guy who invented something, or the guy who ripped him off?

*Yes I know some hold a bead better than others, but from a design standpoint, they are identical. Now shut the hell up.

 

[toyofast]

I would think that just by knowing that it's a design that has already been made by vendor x would keep you from wanting to do the above, just based on ethics. Nuf said!

You'd be very shocked at what people have done. I have seen many things being here from the start....



BTW... where's my royalty checks? Who's the daddy of the small comp chassis? One word, Bulu;-)

 

[Cole82]

We aren't suppose to name vendors or products.:roll:

It bothers me when a member makes a item for there own crawler. Then a vendor steals there design and doesn't give credit to the member.

 

[hawnmt]

I say let the marketplace decide. Most consumers aren't idiots, we can tell a copy when we see it. Sure some will get through despite this but look at the alternative, a board is formed and "regulates" what can and cannot be sold. Who sits on the board? It would probably the best drivers/ builders who are either sponsored by vendors or are vendors themselves. Opening the door to critizism and accusations of corruption if they ever say no to someone. It would also add time to process of getting a product out there and possibly scare of the creative person who doesn't want to go thru the trouble.

I believe the market always finds it's own level, some will get away with it for a short time but in the end they won't last.

What it all comes down to is respect, on all sides. Established vendors need to respect the "new guys" and try and talk to that person they have issues with and not fly out accusations. Those with new products need to research and respect the ideas that have gotten the hobby to this point and address any issues before they introduce a new product. And last consumers need to respect those that invested time, money,and effort to become established vendors and not always take the cheap route.

 

[Rockpiledriver]

I think Microgoat has pretty much nailed my opinion with the exception of the beadlock wheel.

 

[Reflection]

I think Microgoat has pretty much nailed my opinion with the exception of the beadlock wheel.

X2

And who would you rather support: The guy who invented something, or the guy who ripped him off?

What if the guy that designs something is really the root cause of copying/simular products out on the market? Should we axe that member? IMHO,yes.

Isn't that in turn ripping the vendor off? That,in turn hurts the customers as well. Just my 2 cents.

 

[toyofast]

We aren't suppose to name vendors or products.:roll:

Oh... Oops..... Someone already mentioned "the stick". Figure that since it was noted I could mention the start of the "TVP" style chassis for the 2.2 rigs that most others were "copied" after in the comp world.

 

[4u2nv]

It has nothing to do with the consumers HawnMT.... people just want to fight!

 

[clodstall]

If ANYONE, vendor or otherwise are bullied, or threatened, on this site, or by PM we take those matters very seriously and do not tolerate it.

mine was deleted? wow. i feel like i have been bullied in pm's. please check.

 

[TwistedCreations]

I just do not see the problem that people have with a simple email,pm,phone call or whatever, to ask that vendor/person/manufacture about the product and if they care if they copy it/build something very similar. Say vendor X has vendor x axles that I like, but i do not want to fork out the $300 to buy them, specially knowing I can make them..

What does it hurt to send him an email, "hey, do you care if i use your design for my own personal use"... 9times out of 10, they are not going to care, because you have the common courtesy and respect to ask them. Same goes in between vendors. I understand that with this still being a small community, it's getting to be a cut-throat business, but show each other some respect.

If Vendor X has a servo holder for a disconnect to mount on the tranny and has been selling it for awhile, great. But then Vendor Y comes along and really likes the simplicity of that, but wants to change it up some.. What is the problem and why does Vendor Y not take the time to talk to Vendor X about it, before all hell breaks loose..Heck, don't you guys have a hideaway to talk to each other also?

Maybe it's just me, but I have asked a few vendors here 1st, before I started to build something similar to their product.

 

[jaxcoffee]

common courtesy and respect to ask them.

Those are the key words right there!