Wheel manufacturers and consumers please read

[Eritex Inc.]

I would like to propose something that would help consumers and manufacturers alike when it comes to the R/C crawling wheel market. I think we have all found and fought issues when it comes to wheel offset and overall width of a crawler using wheels from different manufacturers. It seem that every company has a different way of measuring and it makes comparing difficult at best. I suggest we all go towards what is used in the 1:1 world for a standard.

After looking a bit I found this site that explains it in a very simple yet concise manner.
http://www.gtsparkplugs.com/WheelOffsetCalc.html
I know for some wheel manufactures this is already being used and for others it is not necessary due to a limited wheel selection or the fact that they reproduce offsets identical to stock wheels for crawlers. On the other hand, for those of us that do custom work this would be a life (and time) saver.

I would like to hear input from you and see if there is a better way. This is something that needs to be standardized in order to grow our corner of the market and the hobby in general.


Thanks,

Gerame Erickson
Eritex Inc.

 

[scatterbrains]

good idea always wondered why it wasnt done this way to begin with

 

[Grizzly4x4]

I've preached the same thing for years. I even put a link in my Clod FAQ years ago. Most people don't know the difference between positive offset, negative offset, and backspacing.

I hope the manufacturers will conform to this standard.

 

[skid]

Not trying to bust balls, but simple back spacing numbers(wheel mounting surface to inside bead/ring) seem like an easier way. Most 1:1 wheels I look at are measured that way. Although, a lot of fwd car wheels are measure by offset from center. The offset thing seems bothersum to me. More numbers to figure out.

 

[monkeyracer]

I agree we need some standardization with this.
I had a hard time explaining that I needed a full positive offset 1.9 beadlock wheel for a scale build, and trying to explain that it's the same thing as a berg offset but in 1.9. After a few people telling me that a berg wheel is 2.2, or that MRC wheels would work, and getting frustrated with it, I dropped the issue.

I'd say, the wheel should have at least the following dimensions:

Nominal Bead Diameter
Width at bead surface (for beadlocks)
Overall width (including rings for beadlocks)
Offset from center at hex face (important that it's at the hex face)

Maybe add the measurement from the hex face to the front face of the bead ring. This wil help people figure out what their final width will be by just adding that figure to their hex-to-hex width.

Would it be a lot to ask for a cross section diagram similar to what is shown on your link that has the dimensions for the wheels when they are designed? All the manufacturer's would have to do is take the CAD file they send to the machine, and create the cross section, dimension it, done.

 

[Eritex Inc.]

This is what I have been leaning towards when it comes to how I will describe offset on my website....

This is my Berg offset wheel which has a .015" positive offset.

 

[KBrog]

I think back spacing would be the easy way to measure and understand what your getting. You dont want a customer to have to take a class in + or - offset know how. Just break out a tape measure and check back spacing.

ie: back spacing is 0mm, 5mm, 10mm, ect, ect, done.

jusy my 2cent "thumbsup"

 

[monkeyracer]

This is what I have been leaning towards when it comes to how I will describe offset on my website....

This is my Berg offset wheel which has a .015" positive offset.

That looks great, exactly what i was talking about.

Now, if we can just make this an industry standard...

 

[Eritex Inc.]

I think back spacing would be the easy way to measure and understand what your getting. You dont want a customer to have to take a class in + or - offset know how. Just break out a tape measure and check back spacing.

ie: back spacing is 0mm, 5mm, 10mm, ect, ect, done.

jusy my 2cent "thumbsup"

I have had used this style of measuring before and have ran into the issues of rings on or off, over all wheel width, and to the inner face or the hex floor. My standardization idea was set up to mirror 1:1 wheels because it is easy to search "wheel offset" and get a clear, clean description.

 

[Sydwaiz]

Not trying to bust balls, but simple back spacing numbers(wheel mounting surface to inside bead/ring) seem like an easier way. Most 1:1 wheels I look at are measured that way. Although, a lot of fwd car wheels are measure by offset from center. The offset thing seems bothersum to me. More numbers to figure out.

I agree. Simple backspacing measurements and rim width would be the easiest. Offsets confuse more people than it doesn't even in the 1:1 world.

 

[skid]

I have had used this style of measuring before and have ran into the issues of rings on or off, over all wheel width, and to the inner face or the hex floor. My standardization idea was set up to mirror 1:1 wheels because it is easy to search "wheel offset" and get a clear, clean description.

My votes for hex floor to the inner ring(backspacing), the width with rings on and rings off.

As far as a clear description? Offset leaves a lot for the customer to figure out. In the past when searching for wheels, I always skip over the ones described by offset, didn't want to deal with it. That can't be standardized real well because if varies with wheel width. And I'm sure you know, there's a number of option's out there for width.

 

[Eritex Inc.]

What about something like this?

 

[Grizzly4x4]

My votes for hex floor to the inner ring(backspacing), the width with rings on and rings off.

As far as a clear description? Offset leaves a lot for the customer to figure out. In the past when searching for wheels, I always skip over the ones described by offset, didn't want to deal with it. That can't be standardized real well because if varies with wheel width. And I'm sure you know, there's a number of option's out there for width.

These are good points.
A 1.6" wide wheel with 0" offset may fit on a rig but a 2" wide wheel with 0" offset may have the inner ring hit the knuckle.

Where a 1.6" wide wheel with .8" of backspacing and a 2" wide wheel with .8" of backspacing will both fit the same axle because the inner ring is the same distance from the hex surface.

 

[EeePee]

I vote for backspace measurements over offset. Like said, it's much easier, and Grizz makes a perfect case in point. Any time I went to order custom wheels for the Honda race car (3 times), the manufacturer (2 different ones) wants to know what backspacing I want.

The only issue I could see would be the measurement is quite small at our scale, maybe even single millimeters of a difference. But it doesn't get much easier than this:

 

[PipeDreams]

X1000 on back spacing... infact Eritex I was just looking last night at some of your rims and turned to my gf and said "man I wish these rc guys did it the same as my 1:1 stuff..... back spacing is so much easier!) Like one guy said if you know one back space works for that diff or knuckle then just look for rims with that back space... It's easier to measure(straight edge and a measuring device) I'd like to see back spacing from inner bead ring to the hex face because that's the number that dictates how far out the wheel will sit! Put a note in there something like Note: back spacing may vary slightly due to bead thickness on tire! Keeps things simple and easy for everyone to figure out!

 

[monkeyracer]

What about something like this?

I think whatever measurement is decided, having the diagram will help explain them a whole lot more.

My problem with backspacing is the same problem you guys have with offset.

A 2" wide wheel with 0.8" backspacing means it has a -0.2" (negative) offset, but a 1" wide wheel with 0.8" backspacing has a 0.3" (positive) offset. Throw rings into the mix, and that changes it.

If I'm shopping for wheels to keep width down (to get through gates, or to match a scaler body's width.) I want to know how far it will stick out.

So, since both measurements are important, why not use both like Gerame's pic above?

That pic tells us everything we need to know; the bead diameter, how wide the wheel is, how much knuckle clearance there is, and how far the rim sticks out past the hex face.

As we see in the 1:1 world, you're going to need more than one measurement to make sure the wheels will fit and work the way you want them to.

 

[microgoat]

I agree this is long overdue "thumbsup"

Add one vote for a backspacing standard.

 

[Manning]

I'm old school. Go with backspacing.

 

[PipeDreams]

I think whatever measurement is decided, having the diagram will help explain them a whole lot more.

My problem with backspacing is the same problem you guys have with offset.

A 2" wide wheel with 0.8" backspacing means it has a -0.2" (negative) offset, but a 1" wide wheel with 0.8" backspacing has a 0.3" (positive) offset. Throw rings into the mix, and that changes it.

If I'm shopping for wheels to keep width down (to get through gates, or to match a scaler body's width.) I want to know how far it will stick out.

So, since both measurements are important, why not use both like Gerame's pic above?

That pic tells us everything we need to know; the bead diameter, how wide the wheel is, how much knuckle clearance there is, and how far the rim sticks out past the hex face.

As we see in the 1:1 world, you're going to need more than one measurement to make sure the wheels will fit and work the way you want them to.

I agree nothing wrong with this photo it tells you everything. So the guys that want to know BS will know and the guys that want Offset will know! It's not hard to list all these specs in just a simple list format either... then people can choose how they shop for their wheels!

 

[sledge57]

I agree nothing wrong with this photo it tells you everything. So the guys that want to know BS will know and the guys that want Offset will know! It's not hard to list all these specs in just a simple list format either... then people can choose how they shop for their wheels!

I agree too, the last drawing is perfect, it shows everything you need to know. "thumbsup"