3S brushed setup; is the AE-2/5 ok?

[CoolRunning]

I'm looking at potentially running the AE-2 and/or AE-5.

I have modest requirements. Basically 3S lipo with 30T Tekin hand wound rebuildable motor as I've heard the stock Axial motors burn up on 3S. Basically I'm happy with the stock 27T torque/power and don't want to destroy the drivetrain with brushless and spend a load of money with an expensive ESC/motor and loads of upgrades.

I've read that if I setup an external BEC I'll be able to use the AE-2.

I've also read that if I use the AE-5, I can run 3S straight out of the box.

Basically it's to get a bit more wheel speed between crawls. The truck is for crawling so I don't want to cook things. My concern is the stock motor gets hot for crawling already on a NiMh (I'm in Australia and it gets hot). We do some crawling, the motor gets pretty warm so we zoom around a bit to cool it down...rinse, repeat.

HH and lots of other gear would be great but as I'm doing this for two Axial trucks I need to economise.

The 2 motors alone will be about $250 already plus a couple of decent lipos. Another AE-5 is $70 so I'm already up for about $400.

Please let me know if this setup will cook the ESC or cause other problems!

[TacoCrawler]

I prefered using the Axial AE2 with an external BEC
because that ESC is Castle Creations mfgr'd/compatible.
Ran it on 3s LiPo for years that way.
Was still working great when I sold it in favor of a HH's BR/XL.

Whereas the Tactic ESC (hobby king I think) is not compatible with CC's programming.

I've since upgraded to the HH's BR/XL ESC...
and that too is also Castle Creations compatible.
J.R. Holmes knows what he's doing and chooses to stick with
the Castle Creations compatibility.

I too prefer sticking with what I know works
and that it is Castle Creations compatible.
Thus allowing me to make ESC setting adjustments using my PC.

Besides just using an external, adjustable, BEC

I would recommend also utilizing the HH's "Y" harness - by-passing the RX,
feeding the servo's voltage demands directly from the battery
thru the ext. adj. BEC.

This will be important if ya ever go with a high torque/voltage servo.
'cuz if the servo's demand it too much... it will starve the RX's voltage needs
and cause glitching or TX - RX communication fault.

The HH's BR/XL has a higher internal BEC voltage/amp rating then most other ESC's.
And has way more adjustments when using the CC's USB link/programming.

So I run the BR/XL's internal BEC to run/power the RX
and the Ext. BEC ( powered off the main batt. ) to supply voltage to the servo.

When it comes to electronics... you get what you pay for...

Half arsing it IMO... isn't worth the savings of a nickle.

The electronics are the heart and soul of any RC crawler...
And IMO is a more worthy investment... then which RC vehicle is utilized.

I personally would not buy Tactic unless it were the only product available.

[meatmonkey]

It's almost funny that the AE-2 will be fine on 3s, as long as you use an external bec, even though its not rated for it.

While, in my experience, the AE-5 has 50% odds of suviving for a while on 3s, even though its rated for it.

You want the AE-2, or look into a Castle SV3. You"ll want a castlelink to be able to take advantage of the programmability of either.

3s on brushed motors in high-heat is going to require gearing down from stock if you want to keep motors alive.

[Hardcoretam]

AE-2 will be fine on 3s with a BEC as long as geared properly.

When you say stock motor, is it 27t in your rig? For 3s you might want to go for something like a 35 or even 45t and a slightly smaller pinion gear. You'll get less heat, more low down control and better battery life. I'm looking to run a 35t on 3s on my AE-2 with 87/18 gearing

AE-5 is just a rebranded Hobbywing 1060 i think.
If so they use a 6v, linear 3amp BEC but when running 3s lipo the BEC being a linear type has to create some heat when reducing the 11.1+v to 6v and coupled with some hot weather and a powerful motor, it can overload the ESC.

Hobbywing 1060 on 3S with a Turnigy BEC to keep it cheap and cheerful should be fine, or if you can stretch a little the new Hobbywing 1080 is even better and can do 3s without a BEC much better than the AE-5

[allanon1965]

I like it simple and basic to adjust if I choose to in the field, I have 5 brushed crawlers from 13t crawl masters to 35t torque masters that are running the AE-5 on 3s and have been for a very long time. No issues yet and they serve me well, some say I am lucky and they will go up in flames soon, but they have been saying that for over a year now. I use good quality batteries from value hobby and always balance charge them and dont run them past the lipo cutoff..Take my experience for what its worth...it seems I am in the minority.

[CoolRunning]

Cheers for the replies!

The SCX10 uses the stock 27T and AE-2 and my RR10 the stock 35T and AE-5.

The thing I'm struggling a little bit to rationalise is this: if I go 3S to make the case faster but keeping the stock gearing (so I ge the extra speed benefit) I will likely cause myself heat issues. Burnt out motor and maybe eventually the ESC. To avoid this you gear down which then gives you loads of torque and slow speed grunt but I then don't much extra top end.

I really can't afford the expense of two complete brushless setups plus the rig strengthening which seriously adds up.

I'm kind of stuck now...

I have two DS615 Align servos from flying RC helis so I'm again pondering two SSD two speed trans with the stock brushed motors. I then don't cook anything and can upgrade the motors when they die. I can also eventually gear the final drive down a bit for 3S and don't need the compromise anything as we'll never crawl with the 20'km/h high ratio setup.

What do you think? This might be pretty reliable as I won't heat stress the trucks electronics as it'll always be geared for what we're doing plus it won't be a torque monster and chew out the drivetrain like brushless.

[allanon1965]

Originally Posted by CoolRunning

Cheers for the replies!

The SCX10 uses the stock 27T and AE-2 and my RR10 the stock 35T and AE-5.

The thing I'm struggling a little bit to rationalise is this: if I go 3S to make the case faster but keeping the stock gearing (so I ge the extra speed benefit) I will likely cause myself heat issues. Burnt out motor and maybe eventually the ESC. To avoid this you gear down which then gives you loads of torque and slow speed grunt but I then don't much extra top end.

I really can't afford the expense of two complete brushless setups plus the rig strengthening which seriously adds up.

I'm kind of stuck now...

I have two DS615 Align servos from flying RC helis so I'm again pondering two SSD two speed trans with the stock brushed motors. I then don't cook anything and can upgrade the motors when they die. I can also eventually gear the final drive down a bit for 3S and don't need the compromise anything as we'll never crawl with the 20'km/h high ratio setup.

What do you think? This might be pretty reliable as I won't heat stress the trucks electronics as it'll always be geared for what we're doing plus it won't be a torque monster and chew out the drivetrain like brushless.

you dont have to gear down so much you lose top end...I promise you a 27t holmes motor on 3s geared between 5.0:1 and 6.0:1 will have all the low end you want and plenty of wheel speed...mine does and its geared at 5.6:1 on a 35t holmes torque master expert... the stock 27t axial should be fine for awhile at 5.6:1... wont chew up the drive train either.... 2 speeds come with their own unique set of issues....I had one and took it out and sold it...didnt shift as fast as I wanted or expected and it was sloppy...if I recall it was one of the rc4wd trans....

you get the extra speed benefit from the faster turning motor on 3s...thats why you gear down a bit so you can make it easy on the motor. When you have it geared down on 3s its still much faster than the 2s set up on the taller gearing

[CoolRunning]

I believe the SCX10 has a 20T pinion and 87T spur for a 4:35 drive.

So I need to reduce the pinion to say a 15T pinion.

With the 3S lipo I should get about 50% more speed over the NiMH battery even with the lower gearing which I imagine would be fine.

Would the Tekin 30T handwound motor be ok? I know Holmes make a great motor but I have these available locally (they are cheaper and rebuildable). I imagine the Tekin handwounds are excellent motors going buy the Tekin 412's etc.

Originally Posted by allanon1965

you dont have to gear down so much you lose top end...I promise you a 27t holmes motor on 3s geared between 5.0:1 and 6.0:1 will have all the low end you want and plenty of wheel speed...mine does and its geared at 5.6:1 on a 35t holmes torque master expert... the stock 27t axial should be fine for awhile at 5.6:1... wont chew up the drive train either.... 2 speeds come with their own unique set of issues....I had one and took it out and sold it...didnt shift as fast as I wanted or expected and it was sloppy...if I recall it was one of the rc4wd trans....

you get the extra speed benefit from the faster turning motor on 3s...thats why you gear down a bit so you can make it easy on the motor. When you have it geared down on 3s its still much faster than the 2s set up on the taller gearing

[351Beno]

Tekin is a fine choice. Going with more volts isn't all about wheel speed. I do it so I can gear down and get a good smooth start up with more torque and it does give you some more top speed if that's what your into. The problem with brushed motors at high speed they heat up and wear faster so in go fast rig brushless is the king imo. 17t to 15t pinion is a good start if you have an 87 spur just make sure before you buy..

[RootBreaker]

im running an ae-2 on 3s on my proline tuber ax10 with large tires. I forget the gearing but a 55t novak motor

[allanon1965]

Originally Posted by CoolRunning

I believe the SCX10 has a 20T pinion and 87T spur for a 4:35 drive.

So I need to reduce the pinion to say a 15T pinion.

With the 3S lipo I should get about 50% more speed over the NiMH battery even with the lower gearing which I imagine would be fine.

Would the Tekin 30T handwound motor be ok? I know Holmes make a great motor but I have these available locally (they are cheaper and rebuildable). I imagine the Tekin handwounds are excellent motors going buy the Tekin 412's etc.

I have ran several holmes 30t motors and I think the Tekin would be nearly as good.. so I wouldnt hesitate to use the 30t Tekin if thats what was available to me. I would use a 16t pinion personally, based on my experience with the holmes 30t, give a ratio of 5.4:1 which had nice low end torque and resolution with pretty decent wheel speed on the high end...

In the end I think you would be better served by a sensored brushless system but that can be an upgrade later on down the road.

[Hardcoretam]

I was running my 27t Tamiya Dirt tuned motor on 2s and it's worlds apart from the stock Axial 27t
I had it geared 15/87 and top speed was around 4mph and plenty of low down control.

I recently was out with a group and someone had a 35t GoolRC motor on 3s and 20t pinion. Top speed was much better and guessing about 10mph and low down control was virtually the same as mines.

[Dropbear12]

Hey bud, I'm in Australia too, remote north west Queensland, and it gets as hot as hot can get here. I currently run 3 AE-5s all on 3s never had dramas with them getting too hot. Depends on what you really need out of it.

[CoolRunning]

Thanks again fella's!

Is there such a thing as an affordable/reliable brushless setup without going to the Castle Mamba and Tekin 412?

In the RC heli world, there are loads of affordable brushless motors from Scorpion and the like. Combined with a half decent ESC like a Hobbywing, you have really reliable setups (helis have to be reliable as even a hiccup is expensive).

From memory, the Tekin is around ~$250 and the Mamba ~$250 over here. So about $500 each truck with shipping.

I thought there would have to be a reasonable reliable but less powerful (which is good for me personally) brushless setup for $200 which is definitely in reach.

[Hardcoretam]

You could use a cheap Hobbywing or similar brushless ESC with programmable drag brake and one of the popular outrunner brushless motors. It usually means 32p gearing though

[TacoCrawler]

Originally Posted by meatmonkey

It's almost funny that the AE-2 will be fine on 3s, as long as you use an external bec, even though its not rated for it

The AE2 can handle 3s LiPo
but the RX can only handle about 6.0v put thru it.
Some folk push that voltage higher... but it could kill the RX.

Some RX's can handle running 7.4v thru... but not many.
It's safest to utilize a servo requiring 4.8v - 6.0v to operate.
Would be bad if the servo's voltage demand is higher then the RX can handle.

So if just adding the external BEC...

The voltage setting of the external BEC regulates the voltage supply powering to/thru the RX.
And the servo draws it's voltage from the RX.
The AE2 ESC's internal BEC is then unplugged(disabled), leading to the RX.*

* can't have two voltage supplies powering the RX simultaneously.

------------

Now if you utilize the HH's "Y" adapter (RX by-pass)
The only servo limitations are what voltage the external BEC can be adjusted to/supply.

RX Bypass Adapter - Wiring & Wiring Accessories - Electronics & Wiring

^ there's also a dual HH's servo "Y" RX by-pass adapter

Then the AE2 ESC's internal BEC will supply the voltage to the RX
and the external BEC by-passes the RX (power wire)
and will supply voltage to the servo directly without sending voltage thru the RX.
Only the signal/ground wire feeds into the RX.

Using the HH's "Y" by-pass ensures there is zero possibility of RX/TX starvation/glitching
caused by a voltage starved RX.
And that issue shouldn't occur if utilizing the HH's "Y" by-pass adapter.

I'd recommend using the HH's "Y" by-pass adapter
on any steering servo having 300 oz in ^ / or requiring more then 6.0v.

Majority of std servos only require 4.8v - 6.0v to operate.
Meaning: they'll operate within that voltage range.
But the high torque/voltage servos are more demanding.

So if you don't employ the HH's "Y" by-pass
be sure of your servo's voltage requirement/demand on the RX
does not exceed the voltage capability of your RX.

^ hope I didn't cause further confusion

Get the HH's "Y" ...it's only $ 6.

[EeePee]

Tacocrawler, what you said about a Tactic ESC not being compatible with a Castle BEC makes no sense.

[TacoCrawler]

Originally Posted by EeePee

Tacocrawler, what you said about a Tactic ESC not being compatible with a Castle BEC makes no sense.

...K where's that statement ?

You should have quoted me if I needed go back and make a clarification or correction.
'cuz I'm not finding what you're seeing. (tho' I'm not looking real hard)

I meant that the Tactic radio systems are not compatible with Castle Creations systems
and the programming/setting adjustments written by Castle.

In other words...

The two mfgr's do not share a compatibility in their programming or adjustment capabilities.

better ?

[EeePee]

I combined the first two paragraphs and my mistake.

[TacoCrawler]

...no problem

but you did have me reading back and feeling kind've stupid

mostly 'cuz I couldn't see what wasn't there

moving on