HVAC Boiler replacement questions/advice?

[CraZySteve]

Hey Guys,

I figure someone out there might be an HVAC dood!

So... My forced hot water gas fired boiler in my rental condo is shot (29 years old - it probably should be right?) Condo is 1000 sq ft. has 55 feet of baseboard heat. 2 floors, end unit, new replacement windows, new slider. 1 and 1/2 baths.

So I have gotten quotes as follows

#1: HTP Elite EFT-55 boiler will use existing conventional h/w heater - $6750
#2: Burnham Alpine 80 with 30 galloon indirect water tank - includes uses hard pipe to my gas dryer - $10,500
#3: Rinnai Q85sn Boiler with HTP Superstor 45 indirect waer tank - $8200

I have 1 more quote coming and I asked #1 to requote with an indirect tank and the Burnham Alpine 80 boiler.

Any help / thoughts ? I am too stupid when it comes to this stuff... but $10,500 seems a bit high.. especially since the guy wants $8400 to install the boiler that he already leaked out is gonna cost him $2900.
_________________
Thanks
-CS-

[Sheepdawg23wm]

Your in luck, im an hvac dood! Lol!
Rental property huh, most landlords I deal with in AZ do not spend 10 grand on anything supplying heat or cool. First thing, forget indirect water tank for your application. You personally I imagine are not paying the gas bill to heat the water in the hot water heater. Stick with your standard hwh. Secondly, I didnt see any quotes on weil mclain boilers. Since the old boiler was below 80% efficiency and had a metal flue pipe, you were quoted all boilers to re use the old metal flue. With those prices though, you should be getting 90 +% condensing boiler, but I imagine retrofitting pvc flue through the exterior walls would drive up the price. Stay with 80-85% efficiency with no indirect hw tank, thats my advise. Where I dont personally live in your area of the country though, those prices may be very competitive but make sure you get atleast 3 estimates. Good luck with getting everything solved

[slowlearner]

can't speak for the U.S, but from what I've seen and experienced (sat in on plumbing licensing courses at a TECH COLLEGE) here in OZ, materials / parts does get a mark-up, the labour costs incorporate their running costs of labour (insurances, taxes, overheads, certification of installation, etc etc) then they have their profits, to which they could be adding a couple zeroes or a heaps of zeroes.
you may get the unit cheaper, but I doubt it, not too many suppliers will give the same discount htey give to a trade guy for fear of pissing them off. The real cost will be taken up in the costs of the install.

[CraZySteve]

Originally Posted by Sheepdawg23wm

Your in luck, im an hvac dood! Lol!
Rental property huh, most landlords I deal with in AZ do not spend 10 grand on anything supplying heat or cool. First thing, forget indirect water tank for your application. You personally I imagine are not paying the gas bill to heat the water in the hot water heater. Stick with your standard hwh. Secondly, I didnt see any quotes on weil mclain boilers. Since the old boiler was below 80% efficiency and had a metal flue pipe, you were quoted all boilers to re use the old metal flue. With those prices though, you should be getting 90 +% condensing boiler, but I imagine retrofitting pvc flue through the exterior walls would drive up the price. Stay with 80-85% efficiency with no indirect hw tank, thats my advise. Where I dont personally live in your area of the country though, those prices may be very competitive but make sure you get atleast 3 estimates. Good luck with getting everything solved

Rental property yes.. so I agree - I won't realize any savings on the gas.... But then again I am thinking re-sale incase I need to sell in the next 5-7 years.

Another problem / reason I am going hi-efficiency / direct vent is that there is not enough make-up air in the room (utility room is located above garage on 2nd floor along with gas HWH and Gas Dryer) so with not enough makeup air - they would have to address that due to current code regulations

Those are all 90 +% AFUE condensing boilers. Problem is this... I don't have the cash to have a regular conventional boiler installed.. all 3 quoted conventional boilers as well and yea cheap for sure.. #1 was $3950, #2 was $5000 and #3 was $4500.

With a 90+% AFUE I am qualified for a 0% "Heat-loan" for 7 years and I am going to get $1500-$2000 rebates PLUS a Federal tax credit of $1000-$15000. They know that too because it is not an industry secret. So they maybe using that promotion to their advantage (which SUCKS if you ask me)


I am going to get 1 more quote since I posted to my friends on Facebook and someone who I know and trust has recommended a company to me... At that point I will see his quote an make my choice.

[Sheepdawg23wm]

Originally Posted by CraZySteve

Rental property yes.. so I agree - I won't realize any savings on the gas.... But then again I am thinking re-sale incase I need to sell in the next 5-7 years.

Another problem / reason I am going hi-efficiency / direct vent is that there is not enough make-up air in the room (utility room is located above garage on 2nd floor along with gas HWH and Gas Dryer) so with not enough makeup air - they would have to address that due to current code regulations

Those are all 90 +% AFUE condensing boilers. Problem is this... I don't have the cash to have a regular conventional boiler installed.. all 3 quoted conventional boilers as well and yea cheap for sure.. #1 was $3950, #2 was $5000 and #3 was $4500.

With a 90+% AFUE I am qualified for a 0% "Heat-loan" for 7 years and I am going to get $1500-$2000 rebates PLUS a Federal tax credit of $1000-$15000. They know that too because it is not an industry secret. So they maybe using that promotion to their advantage (which SUCKS if you ask me)


I am going to get 1 more quote since I posted to my friends on Facebook and someone who I know and trust has recommended a company to me... At that point I will see his quote an make my choice.

My bad, they are condensing 90% boilers, dont deal with boilers in AZ. I looked them all up right now and those are small systems that look a whole lot like instant hot water heaters. I know nothing on the subject of heat loan, but out here, we've had no Federal tax credits for 2 years. Last year we had 1500 tax credit was 2009. So currently, your setup is grandfathered in from venting regulations, but putting in a new system requires you bring up the mech room to spec im assuming. You also mentioned the cheaper boiler options you didnt have the cash for, is that because they cant be financed? Wait a minute, heat-loan.... They are telling you the more expensive unit can be financed for 7 years at 0% and the cheaper boilers cannot? That sounds a little far fetched if you ask me. The finance companies could care less what you are financing plus I do remember that the federal tax credit only applies to your primary residence, not a rental or any sort of a vacation home. Please lmk how this turns out, im very interested.

[CraZySteve]

Originally Posted by Sheepdawg23wm

My bad, they are condensing 90% boilers, dont deal with boilers in AZ. I looked them all up right now and those are small systems that look a whole lot like instant hot water heaters. I know nothing on the subject of heat loan, but out here, we've had no Federal tax credits for 2 years. Last year we had 1500 tax credit was 2009. So currently, your setup is grandfathered in from venting regulations, but putting in a new system requires you bring up the mech room to spec im assuming. You also mentioned the cheaper boiler options you didnt have the cash for, is that because they cant be financed? Wait a minute, heat-loan.... They are telling you the more expensive unit can be financed for 7 years at 0% and the cheaper boilers cannot? That sounds a little far fetched if you ask me. The finance companies could care less what you are financing plus I do remember that the federal tax credit only applies to your primary residence, not a rental or any sort of a vacation home. Please lmk how this turns out, im very interested.

Yes only Boilers with AFUE 90% and higher are eligble for the Heatloan of 7 years @ 0%. I can get other financing for the regular boiler but that comes in at 5% etc..

One of the big problems I have as well - which is why I am going with an Indirect HWH is that the current utility room does NOT have enough Make-up air. Currently there is a conventional HWH, the old conventional boiler and a gas dryer. All 3 of the guys said (mostly because of the temperature of the room with no appliances running) that there is definitely not enough makeup air.

So by going to a new hi-efficiency boiler / indirect HWH tank setup - I can direct vent/intake the new unit and then there is adequate makeup air for the gas dryer.