RCCrawler Forums

BigJay · 05-21-2007, 06:46 PM

So I've got a Panasonic BL-C10 (I think that's the number), the important part is it's a PTZ Network Camera. It worked fine when I was testing it with the adapter and piece of cat5.

So due to my mounting location I decided to do a little home brew PoE(Power over Ethernet). I cut up the power adapter and ran 9v + on the 4/5 pair(both blue wires) and - on the 7/8 pair(both brown wires). This is run on a 50' piece of cat5 plus the length of the stock wall wart which is like 12'. The blue and brown pairs are cut 6" from each end of the cat5, power does NOT go to the RJ45 jacks at all only along the "middle" of the wire.

Now the problem is, the image is mirror! left is right and right is left, up is still up and down is still down. The web server in the camera works fine, I get 0% dropped packets, all the remote controls for the PTZ work, but the image is mirrored and occasionally the picture jumps a little.

So, I'm thinking it could be the size of the wire, the length of the wire, the fact that 9v is running so close to the network cable, or something with inductance because of the twisted pairs. But I dunno, I've only done some basic electronics, like R/C type stuff.

Anything I can try to fix this?

-Jay

JohnRobHolmes · 05-21-2007, 06:57 PM

Are you sure it was not mirrored to begin with? Certain cameras are made like that, a camera for a rearview mirror replacement for instance.

BigJay · 05-21-2007, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnrobholmes

Are you sure it was not mirrored to begin with? Certain cameras are made like that, a camera for a rearview mirror replacement for instance.

Deffinitely wasn't. I ran it for a week or so in one location (close to my computer) before I moved it to it's current location today. I also looked all through the settings to see if there was a setting I missed for it. There is not.

-Jay

JohnRobHolmes · 05-21-2007, 08:29 PM

Make sure you didnt mess up the signal wires then. I cant imagine that anything else would change the encoding/ decoding.

Thorsteenster · 05-21-2007, 08:48 PM

no, if anything it may cause some electrical noise in the picture but i dont see that it would reverse paning motion. i'd say you got some thing reversed. does the cam have any internal settings if you ip into it?

JohnRobHolmes · 05-21-2007, 08:49 PM

so is it the image or the panning that is reversed?

BigJay · 05-21-2007, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnrobholmes

so is it the image or the panning that is reversed?

It's the IMAGE! Really weird. There are no signal wires, just power and ethernet. The internal webserver works perfectly, the controls work the way they're supposed to. But the image is reversed. I don't think the problem is with the ethernet.. Which means it has to have something to do with the power that the camera itself is recieving. I'm going to bed, but tomorrow if someone wants to get into the camera and look around I can arrange it.

-Jay

Thorsteenster · 05-21-2007, 09:00 PM

oops, sorry. well if you think its power run the power seperate and test it. although i'm guessing since the cam has a built in webserver it must have some settings, it seems to me its a setting. ive never played with one though so i couldnt say for sure. ive looked at some linksys PTZ webcams, they had some wireless ones too.

JohnRobHolmes · 05-21-2007, 09:05 PM

Are you using the same viewing software? Im not knowledgeable about the way ethernet cams interface. Im guessing they just act like an open data port and transmit raw video?

BigJay · 05-22-2007, 06:22 AM

The viewing software is built into the camera. It uses an ActiveX control to show the video on your screen. So you connect to the camera's IP on port 80 using IE just like any web page. If it's the first time it gives you a message about loading an activeX control. Then you get the video.

I setup an account if anyone wants to check it out... It's limited to 20 users so maybe it'll get full up if everyone goes at once. It's also on my DSL which doesn't really have much of an upstream.

LINK REMOVED

To stay on track, assuming it is power that is causing this problem, what can I test or do about it? I have a standard multi meter, which shows 9v at the end. I don't know how to test if it can get enough amps or whatever.

-Jay

xjwalt666 · 05-22-2007, 06:38 AM

ok well ive been doing cctv systems and card access for about 8 years now and the only thing that i can think of is that since the cat5 is such a small conductor it is allowing the power to interfere with the image through the twist in the wire. ive installed a lot of cameras(probably 1500 or so) and many of them with utp setups over internet and phone lines. try taking the power supply right to the camera and plug it in directly not using any other lengths of wire at all. so that you are plugged from the cam into the outlet. try that out. also check in the book that came with it and see what the resistance limitations are. you may be using too small of wire for the distance that you have the camera.

EDIT: i tried getting into it but it comes up with page cannot be displayed

BigJay · 05-22-2007, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjwalt666

ok well ive been doing cctv systems and card access for about 8 years now and the only thing that i can think of is that since the cat5 is such a small conductor it is allowing the power to interfere with the image through the twist in the wire. ive installed a lot of cameras(probably 1500 or so) and many of them with utp setups over internet and phone lines. try taking the power supply right to the camera and plug it in directly not using any other lengths of wire at all. so that you are plugged from the cam into the outlet. try that out. also check in the book that came with it and see what the resistance limitations are. you may be using too small of wire for the distance that you have the camera.

EDIT: i tried getting into it but it comes up with page cannot be displayed

A couple of my friends have had trouble getting into it as well. I personally have had no problems. Someone from here was in it though because it's moved from where it was 30 minutes ago. The rccrawler ID is the only one that's active right now.

Before I modified the AC adapter it worked fine. So it probably does have to do with the increased length of the wire. The question is, is there anything I can do about it?

-Jay

Ok here's what I can find in the manual about power...

AC adaptor: Input 120 V AC, 60 Hz
Output 9 V DC, 500 mA
Consumption: About 2.5 W (4 W during pan/tilt scan)

The stock adapter looks to be about 20awg, and I have TWO of the little (24awg?) ethernet wires hooked to each. So positive goes to blue and blue/white, and negative goes to brown and brown/white. I know there's equasions to figure out how far a certain amount of power can run, does someone have those? Stock adapter is about 12 feet, and now it also runs on 50 feet of cat5.

xjwalt666 · 05-22-2007, 07:24 AM

did you try to just plug it in right on location rather than through the cat5?

Thorsteenster · 05-22-2007, 08:02 AM

yes, try that. easy way to eliminate that as a suspect.

cam 2 isnt coming up for me, its trying to load but wont.

BigJay · 05-22-2007, 08:09 AM

Well since I cut the wall wart in half to make the PoE cable I'll have to unsolder everything and put it back the way it was. I'll do that later tonight most likely. But then I'll have a big orange extention cord running through my house.. heh.

Someone is on it right now, I see it moving. I'm logged into it as well and it seems to be working for me. You do need to put the username and password in a second time to get cam2 to come up.

To log directly into cam2 use port 8128 instead of 8127.

-Jay

BigJay · 05-22-2007, 04:42 PM

Ok so it's screwed. I put the wall wart back to stock and it still behaves the same way. It seemed to work fine for a few days before I rewired it. Weird thing, when I was looking at the box I see a "Radio Shack" sticker with a part number... But I bought it from Best Buy?! And there's a Geek Squad sticker on the front of the box. I'm now wondering if it wasn't already messed up and someone returned it to best buy because radio shack wouldn't take it back or something like that.

-Jay

Thorsteenster · 05-22-2007, 06:25 PM

if you have your receipt you ought to try excahnging it, or see what they would do anyway. does the cam get a private ip or are the only setting changes you can make done through the web interface?

BigJay · 05-22-2007, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thorsteenster

if you have your receipt you ought to try excahnging it, or see what they would do anyway. does the cam get a private ip or are the only setting changes you can make done through the web interface?

ALL the setup is done in the web browser. There is a utility that it comes with that will "find" the camera for you, but after that you do all the setup through the web interface. You all logged in on a "user" account. The administrator gets the same page but there's a "setup" tab where you can change IP address and all the other TCP stack stuff, UPnP setup for routers that have such, DDNS config, date and time, camera defaults, accounts, motion detection options, FTP/E-mail options(it can send images wherever you tell it), sensor log info, multi camera setup, you can even set it so the LED on the front never comes on... (No baby, the webcam isn't on, see the light isn't even on, go ahead and get nekkid.. lol) It's really a pretty neat setup.

I am going to take this back to Best Buy and see what they say..

Just a side note, they also make a "viewer" unit.. I will get one after I move. You plug it into a TV and it can display/control up to 8 cameras with no computer. That'll be perfect since the ultimate goal of this project is for the video part of my security system in the new house I move into. I'll be able to check the cameras from the couch or bed without having a laptop.

-Jay

05-21-2007, 06:46 PM	#1
BigJay Rock Stacker Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Fayetteville, AR Posts: 92	Got an electronics question for ya(non-RC)... So I've got a Panasonic BL-C10 (I think that's the number), the important part is it's a PTZ Network Camera. It worked fine when I was testing it with the adapter and piece of cat5. So due to my mounting location I decided to do a little home brew PoE(Power over Ethernet). I cut up the power adapter and ran 9v + on the 4/5 pair(both blue wires) and - on the 7/8 pair(both brown wires). This is run on a 50' piece of cat5 plus the length of the stock wall wart which is like 12'. The blue and brown pairs are cut 6" from each end of the cat5, power does NOT go to the RJ45 jacks at all only along the "middle" of the wire. Now the problem is, the image is mirror! left is right and right is left, up is still up and down is still down. The web server in the camera works fine, I get 0% dropped packets, all the remote controls for the PTZ work, but the image is mirrored and occasionally the picture jumps a little. So, I'm thinking it could be the size of the wire, the length of the wire, the fact that 9v is running so close to the network cable, or something with inductance because of the twisted pairs. But I dunno, I've only done some basic electronics, like R/C type stuff. Anything I can try to fix this? -Jay

05-22-2007, 06:22 AM	#10
BigJay Rock Stacker Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Fayetteville, AR Posts: 92	The viewing software is built into the camera. It uses an ActiveX control to show the video on your screen. So you connect to the camera's IP on port 80 using IE just like any web page. If it's the first time it gives you a message about loading an activeX control. Then you get the video. I setup an account if anyone wants to check it out... It's limited to 20 users so maybe it'll get full up if everyone goes at once. It's also on my DSL which doesn't really have much of an upstream. LINK REMOVED To stay on track, assuming it is power that is causing this problem, what can I test or do about it? I have a standard multi meter, which shows 9v at the end. I don't know how to test if it can get enough amps or whatever. -Jay Last edited by BigJay; 05-22-2007 at 04:39 PM.

05-21-2007, 06:57 PM	#2
JohnRobHolmes owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down! Posts: 20,290	Are you sure it was not mirrored to begin with? Certain cameras are made like that, a camera for a rearview mirror replacement for instance.

05-21-2007, 08:29 PM	#4
JohnRobHolmes owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down! Posts: 20,290	Make sure you didnt mess up the signal wires then. I cant imagine that anything else would change the encoding/ decoding.

05-21-2007, 08:48 PM	#5
Thorsteenster I wanna be Dave Join Date: May 2006 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 3,377	no, if anything it may cause some electrical noise in the picture but i dont see that it would reverse paning motion. i'd say you got some thing reversed. does the cam have any internal settings if you ip into it?

05-21-2007, 08:49 PM	#6
JohnRobHolmes owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down! Posts: 20,290	so is it the image or the panning that is reversed?

05-21-2007, 09:00 PM	#8
Thorsteenster I wanna be Dave Join Date: May 2006 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 3,377	oops, sorry. well if you think its power run the power seperate and test it. although i'm guessing since the cam has a built in webserver it must have some settings, it seems to me its a setting. ive never played with one though so i couldnt say for sure. ive looked at some linksys PTZ webcams, they had some wireless ones too.

05-21-2007, 09:05 PM	#9
JohnRobHolmes owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down! Posts: 20,290	Are you using the same viewing software? Im not knowledgeable about the way ethernet cams interface. Im guessing they just act like an open data port and transmit raw video?

05-22-2007, 06:38 AM	#11
xjwalt666 Quarry Creeper Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: colchester Posts: 496	ok well ive been doing cctv systems and card access for about 8 years now and the only thing that i can think of is that since the cat5 is such a small conductor it is allowing the power to interfere with the image through the twist in the wire. ive installed a lot of cameras(probably 1500 or so) and many of them with utp setups over internet and phone lines. try taking the power supply right to the camera and plug it in directly not using any other lengths of wire at all. so that you are plugged from the cam into the outlet. try that out. also check in the book that came with it and see what the resistance limitations are. you may be using too small of wire for the distance that you have the camera. EDIT: i tried getting into it but it comes up with page cannot be displayed

05-22-2007, 07:24 AM	#13
xjwalt666 Quarry Creeper Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: colchester Posts: 496	did you try to just plug it in right on location rather than through the cat5?

05-22-2007, 08:02 AM	#14
Thorsteenster I wanna be Dave Join Date: May 2006 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 3,377	yes, try that. easy way to eliminate that as a suspect. cam 2 isnt coming up for me, its trying to load but wont.

05-22-2007, 08:09 AM	#15
BigJay Rock Stacker Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Fayetteville, AR Posts: 92	Well since I cut the wall wart in half to make the PoE cable I'll have to unsolder everything and put it back the way it was. I'll do that later tonight most likely. But then I'll have a big orange extention cord running through my house.. heh. Someone is on it right now, I see it moving. I'm logged into it as well and it seems to be working for me. You do need to put the username and password in a second time to get cam2 to come up. To log directly into cam2 use port 8128 instead of 8127. -Jay

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05-22-2007, 04:42 PM	#16
BigJay Rock Stacker Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Fayetteville, AR Posts: 92	Ok so it's screwed. I put the wall wart back to stock and it still behaves the same way. It seemed to work fine for a few days before I rewired it. Weird thing, when I was looking at the box I see a "Radio Shack" sticker with a part number... But I bought it from Best Buy?! And there's a Geek Squad sticker on the front of the box. I'm now wondering if it wasn't already messed up and someone returned it to best buy because radio shack wouldn't take it back or something like that. -Jay

05-22-2007, 06:25 PM	#17
Thorsteenster I wanna be Dave Join Date: May 2006 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 3,377	if you have your receipt you ought to try excahnging it, or see what they would do anyway. does the cam get a private ip or are the only setting changes you can make done through the web interface?

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