MWRCA Scale 2.2 spec class

[Mnster]

Whats up guys, Cole82 and I have been discussing creating a 2.2 scale class for the winter season. We need to lay a foundation of truck guidelines down to make the comp fair for everyone. These comps will be different then our comps in the past. We have plans for mud bogging, hill climbing and timed higher speed obstical events. Obviously, locations for hill climbs and such are much more plentiful in our area then rocky comp spots. We are hoping to free up some of the pesky constant rules and restraints in rock crawling and keep it pretty simple and enjoyable almost like GTG events. However, the rigs need to start even in capabilitys in order for this class to be fairly competitive. Therefore, I feel the rigs that will compete need to have some of the same basic spec's.

So I need to bounce some guidelines off you guys to get a feel for what we are looking to run. These are not the guidelines, but rather guidelines in discussion that need to finalized. If your not in our club feel free to voice your opinion anyways. After this is done we can create polls to vote on topics that need a final word.


This is what I'm thinking:
Basics
2.2 rims or smaller

Tire height capped at 6 inches


Chassis and body limits
Chassis must be a ladder style and extend over the axles on both ends.

Must run a complete body, bumpers, fenders, doors & tailgates must be intact. Some fender trimming is allowed but 95% must be retained.

Flat beds are allowed as long as the flat bed matches the width of the truck.

Wheelbase must fit within the fender wells of the body you are using.

Tubed sections of a body are allowed. Such as roof cages, tube doors, tube bumpers.

Shaft drive axles (no clod type)

Real 1:1 suspension based designs No torsions, no sticks.


Power Plant
No more then 8.4 volts.

No axle mounted battery packs.

Electronics should be some what hidden.

No Dig allowed. No 4 wheel steer allowed.

Points on arrival These points will be awarded on arrival for:



Scale Points, Maximum -15 total.
-4 pts Hard Body
-2 pts Roof Rack
-2 pts Functional Spare tire
-2 pts Interior
-2 pts functional winch
-2 pts Working Lights
-2 pts Full Exo-Cage/Truggy
-1 pt Rock sliders


Every rig that is to be run must be voted in before it is allowed to compete via online poll.



Scoring
A winch may be used up to three times during a course without penalty.

-5 pts for being leaf sprung.

Reverses allowed (back up as many times as you want doesn't matter)

One free recovery per vehicle

Courses will be run in teams of 2 or more, one free recovery per vehicle then after that it will be a touch penalty. “Bumping” or “helping” up/over an obstacle is allowed as long as you don’t touch any vehicles.

[Cole82]

I like using 2.2 tires on 1.9 rims so I think we should cap the tire hieght instead of rim size. We could also limit the tires to realistic width to height ratio.
I agree with the interior idea, but think all should make atleast an atempt to hide the electronics and wha not.
The frame should be as long as the body. Also should look realistic. No 1" tall frame rails round or square that big.
I do like the idea of voteing on what truck will compete as well.

[Mnster]

Made some adjustments.

[Cole82]

I don't like the power cap though. I don't have any lathe motors left, but if others vote for it I will go buy one.
I think it looks pretty good. Others should please chime in on this subject.






EDIT: maybe a wheelbase has to fit the body.

[MaxxRunner]

So would a PTI goliath fit the bill for a base rig with the additions of driver and lights etc. Do they have to have open diffs or can they be locked? I may be in if I can use this rig with some minor mods. I don't know if I can build another rig in time for another comp season. I just got my super done and running!!! When are you thinking of having the first comp?

MaxxRuner

[Mnster]

Hilift kit would be better or a axial with a scale chassis.

[Cole82]

Ben your comment got me thinking. You said my jeep was just a gopher with a fancy body. Isn't that all any of them are. All we add are body accessories. We aren't doing real tranny or real transfor case.

[Halfj-7]

I'm so down with this!

oh, and I'm almost ready to crawl again

[Cole82]

How is your home coarse going?

[MaxxRunner]

Cole that kind of goes along with my question about using my PTI for a scale truck base as I think it would be a good for a scale with some leaf springs and stock size shocks. I agrree that all we do is body mods and accessories to make it look scale , everythin gunder the body is still R/C. Just my .02. But I'm still the new guy tryong to figure this game out!!

MaxxRunner

[Etype R]

I really hate the idea of bonus points for every damn add on you can fit to your truck. When I wheel, I leave as much crap back at camp or home as I can, I only bring what is needed. The tow strap and shackles are stowed in a case, in the cab. Hilift is hidden along with the spare, all tools are packed away and secured in a tool bag. Sleeping bags, fire wood, tent, all is left at camp.

Also the leaf spring bonus.... Jeeps these days are linked from the factory, my WK jeep is scale in terms of not having leaf springs.

I would just have a pass no pass scale tech rule, judged from those who are competing in the class. If 3 people vote no, and 2 vote yes for a rig, it can't compete.

[Mnster]

Originally Posted by Cole82

Ben your comment got me thinking. You said my jeep was just a gopher with a fancy body. Isn't that all any of them are. All we add are body accessories. We aren't doing real tranny or real transfor case.

Didn't really mean it in a bad way I was just using it for example. But, you must admit your rig is far more comp based then any scale rig I've ever owned. You could probably run your truck in our normal comp season and win, my C-10, bruiser or Zach's Titan could not make it past the 2nd gate. Sure, were not crawling all the time but I can't think of a course to where you wouldn't have advantage over other competitiors. You may say well who's fault is that, but still this is a scaler event. Is your rig unscale absolutly not, it's very scale it's just in a different class of scale rig. You made your rig look like a full mod rig you beat on. I made mine look like a daily driver weekend wheeler. At what point do you call your truck a comp rig and at what point do you call it a scaler. Your construction screams comp rig, while it resembles a scaler. Zach's comp 2.2, Troy's comp 2.2, are the same way which may be why I see yours resembling a comp rig.

The best way to take care of this problem would be to hold different classes. for example a Mall wheeler and a Comp wheeler class. But, with roughly only 3-4 competitiors I really don't see that happening.

Maybe, I'm digging into this to deep. Let me know.

Originally Posted by Etype R

I really hate the idea of bonus points for every damn add on you can fit to your truck. When I wheel, I leave as much crap back at camp or home as I can, I only bring what is needed. The tow strap and shackles are stowed in a case, in the cab. Hilift is hidden along with the spare, all tools are packed away and secured in a tool bag. Sleeping bags, fire wood, tent, all is left at camp..

Good point, I'm not a fan of the garbage people pile on to there rigs. I hate the roof racks piled with junk. But, some how I feel people should be rewarded for scaleness. Otherwise, everyone removes all the scale items like interiors and drivers and we end up bare scalers that look just like comp rigs. The main thing I am attempting to avoid is people making their rigs unscale to gain a competitive edge. I'd like it to be the other way, the more scale your truck is the greater the edge.

Originally Posted by Etype R

Also the leaf spring bonus.... Jeeps these days are linked from the factory, my WK jeep is scale in terms of not having leaf springs.

The main thing I was trying to allow there, was to avoid everyone driving rubicons and land rovers to stay competitive. Leaf springs are not really good to have for a fast moving vehicle. The truck will be bucking and bouncing everywhere through the courses. Bad axle wrap on hill climbs. Limited flex and travel will hinder the truck through rocks and other obsticles. Would you ever make a comp rig with leaf springs? We will vote on it though, good point.

Originally Posted by Etype R

I would just have a pass no pass scale tech rule, judged from those who are competing in the class. If 3 people vote no, and 2 vote yes for a rig, it can't compete.

Agreed, It's just a little hard to say no to someone after they made a 2 hour drive to drive in the comp. Thats why I said online, but yeah not all people post online.

We've tried to hold scaler events in the past. But, it never works out because the rigs are so incompatible. What is scale to me is as real as I can get it, capability takes a second place. While to others scaler is defined as a truck that has a lexan body that lines up with the wheels. While I'm hauling all that extra scale weight through mud or whatever. Someone else is as light as a feather breezing through everything.

Hence why I thought of the spec class... At the sametime though I don't want to limit any one.

Keep posting these idea's, as much as I want to keep it simple I also want to keep it fair even and competitive. You guys are bringing up good points, I don't mean to shoot them down. But, I also want you to see my side of the reasoning.

Maybe we should vote on who is to be the scaler rules foreman if there are any takers. I'd like to see the rules from a different point of view.

[Mnster]

Originally Posted by MaxxRunner

So would a PTI goliath fit the bill for a base rig with the additions of driver and lights etc. Do they have to have open diffs or can they be locked? I may be in if I can use this rig with some minor mods. I don't know if I can build another rig in time for another comp season. I just got my super done and running!!! When are you thinking of having the first comp?

MaxxRuner

I would just stay away from PTI all together. I mean unless you already have one. My main reasons for this is the lack of aftermarket support and if you break chances are no one at a comp can hook you up with replacement parts. Not to mention, finding the parts online.

The diff gear is plastic and weak, same one from the electric TC3 sedans.

A set of axial or tamiya axles can be built up, PTI's cannot.

[Etype R]

Ben, if you want to reward people for scale details, tone down the list.

Maybe bonus points for a spare would be as follows, 1 point for a non functional, undersized spare, 2 points for a undersized functional spare, 4 points for a nonfunctional full size spare (skinny or fat) and 5 points for a full size (skinny or fat again) functional spare.

2 points for a jerry can, another 2 for a jack, 3 points for a interior, 2 more with a driver.

[Halfj-7]

Originally Posted by Cole82

How is your home coarse going?

I used the dirt pile for backfill, so its non-existant right now, other than the pile of rocks and pbits of concrete from the old rock quarry down the road.

[jetboat]

have you thought about locations for the events?? scale comps could be held allot more places than full on crawling. Of course Im going to offer up my place...I dont mind if you want to build mud pits and permant bridges etc plus I have some areas available that are great for scale but no challenge for crawlers....

I would realy like to see brushless allowed....its allot easier to hide a small outrunner than a 55t and when your talking cost, a Holmes Hobbies budget pack is only $100 and you have to figure a decent brushed setup will run you close to that if not more.

How about a class for those that dont meet the "scale" criteria...where people that have made the drive and dont meet the rules could still compete. Maybe make it a no points class.

[Cole82]

No Ben I didn't think you were degrading the rubi. I know exactly what you are talking about. I built the truck like I would build a fullsize rubi with unlimited budget.

Great input guys!

Maybe we should just lighten up and run our trucks. No body wants it to turn into nat's judging and ruleing.

[Mnster]

Originally Posted by Cole82

Maybe we should just lighten up and run our trucks. No body wants it to turn into nat's judging and ruling.

I agree on this, we should hold a comp or do something. See how it works. I can explain it here on the forums how I think it will go. But, without knowing for sure who knows what happens. Really it's just 4 of us anyways.

Edit: If you think our rules are overboard take a look.
http://utrcrc.freeforums.org/viewtopic.php?t=52
See though, Coles rig wouldn't fit in those rules. That is more of what I am looking for, strict guidelines on rig construction. Everyone has sort of the same classification of rig thus the comps are even and competitive. About 75% of those rules are taken care of by the competitors in order to run. I really like the scoring rules pretty laid back. Bumper stuff is a little sketchy but still cool in a way. I think everyones rig but Coles would fit the classifications but thats normal.


I'd like to use a set of rules based off that just more toned down. Or maybe just run them as the they are. You know they work.

[Stormin2u]

Hey Guys I know I don't have a dog in the fight, but I would certainly hope that in the future pure scale competitions would be held. I realize thats hard to do at this point in most groups because we are more competition orientated. But eventually it would be nice to see very strict scale rules apply. I like rewarding springs vs links springs have a disadvantage and detail the more detail the better this should be about scale. We already have outlets for pure competition in 2.2 and Supers. I think the scale faction of our hobby is by nature more of a GTG for fun and laid back competition with more emphasis on scale appearance than all out rock crawling performance. Twisted of the Colorado group has just posted their scale winter series schedule and rules I think they have a very good job on their formate. Don't shoot me felt like adding my two cents.

[Mnster]

Originally Posted by Stormin2u

But eventually it would be nice to see very strict scale rules apply.

Your the first guy to agree with me. The rules are as I stated based mostly on rig construction. Once your rig is setup legal it's easy. We could even make sure your legal online. I don't feel the rules are limiting at all in scale rig construction. You can still build whatever, as long as your rig fit the size and body trim guidelines.

Originally Posted by Stormin2u

I think the scale faction of our hobby is by nature more of a GTG for fun and laid back competition with more emphasis on scale appearance than all out rock crawling performance.

Exactly, I'm still not even 100% sure a scale truck comp can be successful. But, scale definitly comes before performance in this class. Thus, I feel it should be based towards scaleness and not 100% placed on performance. The strict rules will keep the trucks strictly scale rigs and not performance based machines.

Originally Posted by Stormin2u

Twisted of the Colorado group has just posted their scale winter series schedule and rules I think they have a very good job on their formate. Don't shoot me felt like adding my two cents.

I liked their setup but I feel they had far to many classes. They have something like tuber 1.9 and 2.2 then scaler 1.9 and 2.2. It's just to much to run unless we had several competitors and judges. Thanks for your input.

Originally Posted by jetboat

have you thought about locations for the events?? scale comps could be held allot more places than full on crawling. Of course Im going to offer up my place...I dont mind if you want to build mud pits and permant bridges etc plus I have some areas available that are great for scale but no challenge for crawlers.....

You have a great place, the only downfall we have with your place is the distance to get there. I remember it was something ridiculous for Cole like 5 hours. But, the last time I went out there then Badlands that was the best weekend bash ever.

Originally Posted by jetboat

I would realy like to see brushless allowed....its allot easier to hide a small outrunner than a 55t and when your talking cost, a Holmes Hobbies budget pack is only $100 and you have to figure a decent brushed setup will run you close to that if not more.

The reason that was put in place was to avoid someone dropping a inrunner brushless motor in and smashing the hill climb and mud pit events or any other timed event. I guess we could place a strict 2000KV limit down. Or we could just say whatever and do away with the power plant section and have competitors be voted in with their motor choice. For now it's gone as your the second guy to down the idea.

Originally Posted by jetboat

How about a class for those that dont meet the "scale" criteria...where people that have made the drive and dont meet the rules could still compete. Maybe make it a no points class.

Those competitors could bash with us after the comp. Or we could simply let them run and not count their points.