RCCrawler Forums

JohnRobHolmes · 09-13-2007, 10:39 PM

I broke down and took a Goat out of the packaging tonight, installed it into my FJ scaler. From my first testing impression it is a very nice system, but it still has some quirks. I will be doing a more thorough test as the weekend progresses, changing vehicles and settings.

First thoughts- Great BEC, I really like the brushed mode, and the motor looks awesome.

My initial negative findings- All kinds of wheelspeed on 6 cells. Almost too much do I dare say? Drag brake is weird. It works better when the nose is pointed downhill it seems. It works better as the rig gets faster too. It was like the rig accelerated and then slowed back down when the drag brake caught up. I also got some glitching, maybe the locked rotor detection. It happened when going from forward to reverse and back quickly. The last item- the ESC wont speed match the motor on a downhill grade. In otherwords if I hold any throttle, the motor will just free coast downhill and continue to accelerate until I let off the throttle. At this point the drag brake fully kicks in and flips the rig over forward. There is no modulation of downhill acceleration or speed. Only brakes and more brakes. If I hold 1/4 throttle, the motor should stay at 1/4 throttle. Instead it just starts free coasting until the transmitter is returned to neutral.

My initial Positive findings- very sensitive throttle control. The speed range is great while still having a fine low speed throttle. Runtime is ridiculously long too.

I can't make a conclusion yet, I need a lot more testing in different rigs. Anybody else noticed the freecoasting with any throttle input? Anybody notice a difference in forward and reverse drag brake?

tsaun987 · 09-13-2007, 10:58 PM

I noticed all of the same things. Any time I descend something, it just takes off until you let go of the throttle. Even if you are sitting at a stop on a downgrade and barely touch the throttle, it will keep picking up speed until you let go. Most of my weight is in the front, so when the drag brake kicks in it will front flip if I am on a steep decline. Of course, you can just hit the throttle and it will prevent the roll over. It has tons of wheelspeed and power. Throtte control is good as well.

Stormin2u · 09-14-2007, 10:28 AM

Thanks for getting this thread started JRH. I'm looking forward to seeing where it takes us.

I just unpacked one as well, it looks great thats all I can add at this point.

rockbender · 09-14-2007, 03:00 PM

It does the same thing the old one did everything you guys have mentioned.
That is the reason I sold the first crawler system Novak released. I just bought one of the goats I hope it's better than the old system. If not I will go back to my trusty $35.00 dollar speed control and good old lathe motor.

microgoat · 09-14-2007, 07:23 PM

The coasting effect is because it's a sensor-based motor. The ESC translates your throttle input to a "target rpm" and the sensor tells the ESC if it's high or low.

I take descents very slowly, just over the neutral point. It's definitely a different feeling than an outrunner system, but once you get used to it, very easy to drive. Just check your speed on the downhill sections.

JohnRobHolmes · 09-14-2007, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by microgoat

The coasting effect is because it's a sensor-based motor. The ESC translates your throttle input to a "target rpm" and the sensor tells the ESC if it's high or low.

It isn't doing that for me. Even at 1% throttle it just picks up speed until I let off, it totally freecoasts with any throttle input. I want a target rpm, but it is just freecoasting.

Just Zach · 09-14-2007, 08:07 PM

I had my hesiations at first with mine but after some fine tuning on the brake and with the neutral point I was able to get it to work very well. I haven't used it with a brushed motor yet but I am loving it so far. I also geared way down when I installed mine, that might be some of the reason why I haven't had any problems. Even after gearing down I have awesome low end and way better high end than my outrunners.

In my opinion the only place where an outrunner is still better is that you can fine tune the drag brake to let your crawler just inch down a decent, but on the contrast if you start rolling backwards it can be difficult to start again, I have never experienced this with my Goat.

I could see how driving style could really determine if you like it or not.

JohnRobHolmes · 09-14-2007, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justgiveereh

... after some fine tuning on the brake and with the neutral point I was able to get it to work very well. .... Even after gearing down I have awesome low end and way better high end than my outrunners.

In my opinion the only place where an outrunner is still better is that you can fine tune the drag brake to let your crawler just inch down a decent, but on the contrast if you start rolling backwards it can be difficult to start again, I have never experienced this with my Goat.

I could see how driving style could really determine if you like it or not.

Driving style really does have a lot to do with it. The startup on the Novak system will probably always be better than a non-sensored system just by design.

Ups and downs to everything. More testing in the morning.

cartronicshn · 09-14-2007, 08:28 PM

Please let it be only programming, i have the revised version on my hl and it does as Microgoat says, it takes getting used to it, i really hope the new goat model has the same feel, i have 2 of these new goat sytem on the way to me, JRH keep us posted on your finding and thanks

JohnRobHolmes · 09-14-2007, 08:40 PM

My results are probably from my final geardown. If my final ratio was low enough for the drag to slow my rig down it would probably not freecoast so much. As it sits, the motor drag isn't enough until I let go of the throttle and the drag brake or "hold brake" kicks in.

Just Zach · 09-14-2007, 09:00 PM

I'm running a R2 and a 10t pinion. It still just holds on hills but the low speed control is good enough to control it.

montereycrawler · 09-14-2007, 09:14 PM

I played with 51504rock's at the Nats and Chino63 has almost the same set-up. They are geared pretty low but I can't remember what the gearing was. I was very impressed but maybe didn't test the way you did. All three of us are coming off of a Mamba Max with brushed so driving style and what we are used to is different I guess. And yes, 6 cells seems to be plenty.

It was good to meet you last weekend John. Thanks for the support and help you gave to help the Nationals be the best ever.

jason · 09-14-2007, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnrobholmes

It isn't doing that for me. Even at 1% throttle it just picks up speed until I let off, it totally freecoasts with any throttle input. I want a target rpm, but it is just freecoasting.

Yep the one I drove was the same way. Going down hill the brake would stop the rig, give it a tiny bit of input and it would freewheel.

My reworked 1st gen system doesn't do that.

cartronicshn · 09-14-2007, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason

Yep the one I drove was the same way. Going down hill the brake would stop the rig, give it a tiny bit of input and it would freewheel.

My reworked 1st gen system doesn't do that.

Not what i wanted to hear:-(, i guess i just have to wait for my goats to get here and try them out.

tsaun987 · 09-14-2007, 09:29 PM

I'm running a r2 tranny with mine, and I have a feeling that it is only a matter of time before it explodes. I am going to go ahead and order a new set of gears for it just in case

Thorsteenster · 09-14-2007, 09:30 PM

Maybe I'll just stick with my original Crawler systems and pick up some sintered rotors.

JohnRobHolmes · 09-17-2007, 12:04 PM

I just called Novak, Charlie is out till tomorrow so one of the techs is supposed to give me a ring back. We shall see if it is just my system that freewheels, or if it was a programming issue to begin with.

tsaun987 · 09-18-2007, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnrobholmes

I just called Novak, Charlie is out till tomorrow so one of the techs is supposed to give me a ring back. We shall see if it is just my system that freewheels, or if it was a programming issue to begin with.

Well I can say that it's not just yours JRH:-(
Other than that, I really do love this thing!

I do have a question though. I know that it is not waterproof, but can it take a splash? ie: raindrops? Im not planning on swimming or anything!

Stormin2u · 09-19-2007, 07:25 AM

I'm amazed that more people haven't posted how their new Goat system are working for them.
The number of new Goat units out there should fill a couple of pages you would think.

What's up with the Goat?

cartronicshn · 09-19-2007, 10:19 AM

After reading this thread Novak Goat Failures?

i am starting to worry:-(, i have a nib sitting on my desk waiting for it's brother goat to show up today so i can install them on a super tuber project i have, but with all the talk of esc failures and the freewheeling issues , i don't want to even open them, maybe charlie at Novak can chime in and tell us waht batch has been failing.

09-13-2007, 10:39 PM	#1
JohnRobHolmes owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down! Posts: 20,290	Novak Goat Review I broke down and took a Goat out of the packaging tonight, installed it into my FJ scaler. From my first testing impression it is a very nice system, but it still has some quirks. I will be doing a more thorough test as the weekend progresses, changing vehicles and settings. First thoughts- Great BEC, I really like the brushed mode, and the motor looks awesome. My initial negative findings- All kinds of wheelspeed on 6 cells. Almost too much do I dare say? Drag brake is weird. It works better when the nose is pointed downhill it seems. It works better as the rig gets faster too. It was like the rig accelerated and then slowed back down when the drag brake caught up. I also got some glitching, maybe the locked rotor detection. It happened when going from forward to reverse and back quickly. The last item- the ESC wont speed match the motor on a downhill grade. In otherwords if I hold any throttle, the motor will just free coast downhill and continue to accelerate until I let off the throttle. At this point the drag brake fully kicks in and flips the rig over forward. There is no modulation of downhill acceleration or speed. Only brakes and more brakes. If I hold 1/4 throttle, the motor should stay at 1/4 throttle. Instead it just starts free coasting until the transmitter is returned to neutral. My initial Positive findings- very sensitive throttle control. The speed range is great while still having a fine low speed throttle. Runtime is ridiculously long too. I can't make a conclusion yet, I need a lot more testing in different rigs. Anybody else noticed the freecoasting with any throttle input? Anybody notice a difference in forward and reverse drag brake?

09-19-2007, 07:25 AM	#19
Stormin2u I wanna be Dave Join Date: May 2007 Location: Taylors Falls just hanging with the MNRCRC crew. Posts: 7,843	I'm amazed that more people haven't posted how their new Goat system are working for them. The number of new Goat units out there should fill a couple of pages you would think. What's up with the Goat? Last edited by Stormin2u; 09-19-2007 at 10:30 AM.

09-13-2007, 10:58 PM	#2
tsaun987 Quarry Creeper Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Katy, TX Posts: 482	I noticed all of the same things. Any time I descend something, it just takes off until you let go of the throttle. Even if you are sitting at a stop on a downgrade and barely touch the throttle, it will keep picking up speed until you let go. Most of my weight is in the front, so when the drag brake kicks in it will front flip if I am on a steep decline. Of course, you can just hit the throttle and it will prevent the roll over. It has tons of wheelspeed and power. Throtte control is good as well.

09-14-2007, 10:28 AM	#3
Stormin2u I wanna be Dave Join Date: May 2007 Location: Taylors Falls just hanging with the MNRCRC crew. Posts: 7,843	Thanks for getting this thread started JRH. I'm looking forward to seeing where it takes us. I just unpacked one as well, it looks great thats all I can add at this point.

09-14-2007, 03:00 PM	#4
rockbender Pebble Pounder Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Acton Posts: 176	It does the same thing the old one did everything you guys have mentioned. That is the reason I sold the first crawler system Novak released. I just bought one of the goats I hope it's better than the old system. If not I will go back to my trusty $35.00 dollar speed control and good old lathe motor.

09-14-2007, 07:23 PM	#5
microgoat I wanna be Dave Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 8,009	The coasting effect is because it's a sensor-based motor. The ESC translates your throttle input to a "target rpm" and the sensor tells the ESC if it's high or low. I take descents very slowly, just over the neutral point. It's definitely a different feeling than an outrunner system, but once you get used to it, very easy to drive. Just check your speed on the downhill sections.

09-14-2007, 08:07 PM	#7
Just Zach '08 2.2 National Champ Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UTRCRC Posts: 5,585	I had my hesiations at first with mine but after some fine tuning on the brake and with the neutral point I was able to get it to work very well. I haven't used it with a brushed motor yet but I am loving it so far. I also geared way down when I installed mine, that might be some of the reason why I haven't had any problems. Even after gearing down I have awesome low end and way better high end than my outrunners. In my opinion the only place where an outrunner is still better is that you can fine tune the drag brake to let your crawler just inch down a decent, but on the contrast if you start rolling backwards it can be difficult to start again, I have never experienced this with my Goat. I could see how driving style could really determine if you like it or not.

09-14-2007, 08:28 PM	#9
cartronicshn I wanna be Dave Join Date: May 2006 Location: HONDURAS...ROCK HEAVEN Posts: 5,076	Please let it be only programming, i have the revised version on my hl and it does as Microgoat says, it takes getting used to it, i really hope the new goat model has the same feel, i have 2 of these new goat sytem on the way to me, JRH keep us posted on your finding and thanks

09-14-2007, 08:40 PM	#10
JohnRobHolmes owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down! Posts: 20,290	My results are probably from my final geardown. If my final ratio was low enough for the drag to slow my rig down it would probably not freecoast so much. As it sits, the motor drag isn't enough until I let go of the throttle and the drag brake or "hold brake" kicks in.

09-14-2007, 09:00 PM	#11
Just Zach '08 2.2 National Champ Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UTRCRC Posts: 5,585	I'm running a R2 and a 10t pinion. It still just holds on hills but the low speed control is good enough to control it.

09-14-2007, 09:14 PM	#12
montereycrawler Nor-CalRCRC Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Monterey Peninsula Posts: 745	I played with 51504rock's at the Nats and Chino63 has almost the same set-up. They are geared pretty low but I can't remember what the gearing was. I was very impressed but maybe didn't test the way you did. All three of us are coming off of a Mamba Max with brushed so driving style and what we are used to is different I guess. And yes, 6 cells seems to be plenty. It was good to meet you last weekend John. Thanks for the support and help you gave to help the Nationals be the best ever.

09-14-2007, 09:29 PM	#15
tsaun987 Quarry Creeper Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Katy, TX Posts: 482	I'm running a r2 tranny with mine, and I have a feeling that it is only a matter of time before it explodes. I am going to go ahead and order a new set of gears for it just in case

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09-14-2007, 09:30 PM	#16
Thorsteenster I wanna be Dave Join Date: May 2006 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 3,377	Maybe I'll just stick with my original Crawler systems and pick up some sintered rotors.

09-17-2007, 12:04 PM	#17
JohnRobHolmes owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down! Posts: 20,290	I just called Novak, Charlie is out till tomorrow so one of the techs is supposed to give me a ring back. We shall see if it is just my system that freewheels, or if it was a programming issue to begin with.

09-19-2007, 10:19 AM	#20
cartronicshn I wanna be Dave Join Date: May 2006 Location: HONDURAS...ROCK HEAVEN Posts: 5,076	After reading this thread Novak Goat Failures? i am starting to worry:-(, i have a nib sitting on my desk waiting for it's brother goat to show up today so i can install them on a super tuber project i have, but with all the talk of esc failures and the freewheeling issues , i don't want to even open them, maybe charlie at Novak can chime in and tell us waht batch has been failing.

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