Hybrid Super built pics (berg, rockbull, copperhead)

[Dynamic^Cipher]

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EDIT....REBUILT....see end of page 1 for new pics
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So I decided to go super and it worked out pretty well for me. What I have here is

Parts:
2 x tekkin FXR
2 x tekken 55T
1 x CC bec
2 x 5955 hitec servos
1 x ar6100
mudslinger tires (cut foams weighted fronts)
proline cheyanne narrow rims
ST racing axle extensions
12mm to 23mm hex adapter (drilled for fit)
berg axles
rockbull rocket lower links and hardened steel uppers
losi crawler threaded shocks with soft springs
copperhead chassis

Currently on there I have 2 x 3s 2200 kong power batteries in order to get lots of run time. At competition I would obviously use smaller batts.

Dimensions:
width 13"
length 16" compressed and 17" extended


Build desciption:
When I built it at first using the stock link mount locations it ended up with a 19.5" wheelbase compressed, 22 extended. That was longer then I wanted it (especially when I'm only 13" wide). In addition it had about 140 degrees of articulation which everyone knows is way to much. And I had too much caster front and back.

I knew it wasn't going to work well in that setup by I find it easier for me to mock up my builds before I start to modify to get a better visual reference on how I can fix what and identify what needs to be fixed.

So created my own link mounts in order to shorten the wheelbase, change the suspension geometry, and correct the castor. Now my steering knucke arms are parallel to the ground like they should be, my articulation is limited to about 80 degrees (that may be too much for some people but I havn't tried a rig with lots of arti yet so I thought I would go for the high end of the spektum). I'm happier with a 16" wb too as it makes manuevering a little easier.

Pictures:






Sorry bout the low quality pics again. All I have for a camera is my phone.

[crawl rookie]

I like it beacause of your unique thought but.........................



Bergs wont hold up with those tires and the fact the way the links are mounted

[Dynamic^Cipher]

If the link mounts don't hold the way they are I can always drill and tap a small block of aluminum.

What do you think is not going to hold up on the berg axles?

[Kamikaze]

The axles.

[Dynamic^Cipher]

So the axle tubes themselves? The stubs? The dogbones? The lockers? The gears? the link mounts? The bearings? I'd be surprised if I started driving and the entire axles spontaneously started on fire and exploded in a glorious display of shrapnel and shock wave.

So my question is what do I need to reinforce to avoid breakage on the bergs? Failing that what axles are good to use for 40 series tires?

I don't want to run raptors because I don't want to have to use the gear reduction kit moving my motors out.

Ax10's....hehe...probably not

bully 2.2's....would you say these are still not gonna be strong enough....their a lot like bergs.

Clod axles....Everyone uses those....I like to be different. And $500 for the stage 5 aluminums is pricey.

So whats a good axle for a super.




the one thing that MAY save my berg axles is that I'm not running full speed wheel spinning action style. I drive ultra crawl slow.

[Kamikaze]

The stubs, the inners and the gears. The actual case assembly is bomb proof. I'm shreading gears with 2.2 tires on it in a sub 6lbs truck. Honestly a built set of clods is your best bet. Unles you want to wait and see what XTM and Kyoshio have in store for us.

[crawl rookie]

Stubs, axle shafts gears, AND knuckles.

Clods with a alum locker and alu tubes and aliu knuckles will be way better, word

[Dynamic^Cipher]

Got it on the rocks for the first time today and learned a few things.

The upper link mounts are indeed WAY to weak. So I will get some new upper links that are the correct length to use the frame integrated mounts.

Mudslingers are NOT for rock crawling. They simply do not grip the rocks and I will be throwing them in the garbage/never to use again parts pile (next to my 2.2 rock lizards as they worked about the same).

As far as axles go I didn't have any problems with them today, however should they break I will replace them with stage 5 clod axles from ckrc (hopefully they last for 2 weeks till my next cheque).


The immediate plans include getting the corret size links for the uppers and some moab XL's, although I'm thinking about some max size rock claws
http://xtreme-rc-hobbies.net/store/p...6f3a2acfebd443

[crawl rookie]

Originally Posted by Dynamic^Cipher

Got it on the rocks for the first time today and learned a few things.


As far as axles go I didn't have any problems with them today, however should they break I will replace them with stage 5 clod axles from ckrc (hopefully they last for 2 weeks till my next cheque).

http://xtreme-rc-hobbies.net/store/p...6f3a2acfebd443

You should break some parts when driving the moabs or other tires that actualy have grip. The mud slingers worked as a slipper

good luck

[Dynamic^Cipher]

Upon further inspection after about 30 minutes on the rocks today I discovered that one of my $70 rockbull 3 links snapped where the set screw holds it. Well that sucks. So I guess I'm gonna get the moabs instead of the rock claws and the $40 I save can go toward shock mounts and links.

I have no faith in the strength of the rockbull 3 links now, the way they use set screws to hold them in place, in retrospect, is retarded as the width of the link is cut in half making the strength considerably less.

So I'm going to replace my lower RB3 rocket links with hardened steel links that I was using for uppers, get the RB2 shock mounts. I made some new upper links tonight after my last post.

On a final note. The hot racing 23mm adapters kinda suck cause they don't include barrel nuts, and with berg hexes you have to drill them, or grind your berg hexes. Or you could buy ax10 hexes, but that was annoying and I never mentioned it. the 15mm offset ones include barrel nuts....thats better too.

[Crawlerguy851]

I suggest you rework everything and go for a more lightweight agile super. Use Maxx tires and a 14.5-15" wheelbase, and the berg axles should hold up fine. They seem to be the trend these days. The beast you just built looks straight outta 2005.

[Dynamic^Cipher]

It will be completely rebuilt with a new linkage setup as soon as the parts arrive (and probably a couple times after that as well

In terms of weight I'm not sure where your coming from. It weighs the same as my 2.2 (2.2 has a fair bit of wheel weight). The chassis could be considered heavy, but it will be getting lowered with my next linkage setup. I could lighten it by going to a stick or cane, but IMHO its not really a truck anymore, more of a rock crawling device or something.


I'm confused by the weight thing. wheels and tires are going to weigh what they do, same with axles, same with servos. Tekin ESC's are small and light. Batts are there for runtime I have 1320's for comps. Links and chassis are all thats left....do they look heavy?

[Dynamic^Cipher]

OK....rebuild #2 was a failure. Turns out that panel mounts are not strong enough for shock or link mounts on the copperhead either. Was using some really long links. Heres a crappy picture that gives an idea of link setup...worked great till the mounts broke. Slow learner that link mounts need to be STRONG. Broke the nuts right off.



Lets ignore that disaster and go right to rebuild #3. Shorter bent links and some new geometry was on the menu this time,






More of a conventional setup this time. As fun as my "lets try something new" style was I was getting really sick of breaking link mounts.

To break things down the spec are
WB = 16"
GC = 4"
TW = 13"

I've got some wideners on the way that will widen my TW it a little more then an inch, but USPS is being slow on that.

Moab XLs put the mudslingers to shame....mudslingers suck BIG TIME for crawling.

Haven't had any axle problems yet...fingers crossed, hopefully that keeps up.

I'm gonna take it back out to the rocks after work tomorrow and do some more testing. I'll know more about how this geometry works after that.

Any thoughts on this setup....other then buy clod axles.

[Dynamic^Cipher]

Replaced my star cut foams with some channeled foams for better sidewalling.

Took it to the local comp today. The local comp consists of a 2.2 limited class (no rear steer and no dig) and a 2.2 unlimited class (previously called the unlimited class, they changed the name and the rules restricting it to 2.2 tires after the arrival of my rig at the comp. I think its BS that they change the rules AT the comp as opposed to letting people know before....but whatever, I'm not there to make trouble).

There was also a unrestricted run what you brung king of the mountain event that had a gate at the bottom of the hill and a gate at the top, fastest time wins. That catagory I won easilly as mine was the by far the most capable rig there. I also firmly believe that I could have made a serious run in the 2.2 unlimited (previously called unlimited) if I had been allowed to run, however I can't say for sure as I was not allowed to run that course.

I've talked to the head of the local organization and at the future events I will be incharge of the new...cause previously it was inclusive in the unlimited...super class, that will use standardized USRCCA rules, instead of whatever the head organizer has on his truck is the limit of what you can run on your truck rules.

In terms of drivability it performed rediculusly good and pretty much walked over whatever it wanted. Sidehilling was good but not perfect. Climing on flat rock had some limited traction but thats to be expected, nothing else made those climbs either.

I love supers....they make 2.2s seem like little kids toys.

[bullet1231]

very nice build, i recently got me a super aswell, and yea it does make 2.2 seem like kids toys, lol

[toy4crawlin]

YAA GO SUPER !!

Compliments to the way you started your build and information
Not many people list in detail their parts , plans and pics
I really like that
the 16r - mini super looks cool... except for the Huge tires with Narrow track width
put some claws or panthers on there.

Originally Posted by Dynamic^Cipher

Got it on the rocks for the first time today and learned a few things.

The upper link mounts are indeed WAY to weak. So I will get some new upper links that are the correct length to use the frame integrated mounts.

Mudslingers are NOT for rock crawling. They simply do not grip the rocks and I will be throwing them in the garbage/never to use again parts pile (next to my 2.2 rock lizards as they worked about the same).

As far as axles go I didn't have any problems with them today, however should they break I will replace them with stage 5 clod axles from ckrc (hopefully they last for 2 weeks till my next cheque).


The immediate plans include getting the corret size links for the uppers and some moab XL's, although I'm thinking about some max size rock claws
http://xtreme-rc-hobbies.net/store/p...6f3a2acfebd443

To tall, links have to much angle, needs to be more parrellel, take a look on my build link below last few pages.

as for Links
I recommend Delrin.
hech em , that be Real Delrin, not the other stuff that bends real easy.
Light or lighter than aluminum, but slick and if it does get hit or bent it bends back to straight. easy to tap, fairly cheap. search for Finish line Rc, he does a nice job. I went with him because I bought some Delrin on Mccaster but it was the cheap stuff.

Looking forward to seeing your mods.

Cant comment on axles, but dont blame you on raptors.

Sucks to hear Kamikaze is shearing gears on a 2.2

[blakephuckle]

nice build

i might use a copperhead chassis for my super crawler very soon

[toy4crawlin]

Originally Posted by Kamikaze

The stubs, the inners and the gears. The actual case assembly is bomb proof. I'm shreading gears with 2.2 tires on it in a sub 6lbs truck. Honestly a built set of clods is your best bet. Unles you want to wait and see what XTM and Kyoshio have in store for us.

Wow that sucks , shreading the new Berg gears. Is there an upgrade? sems like there is always an upgrade for the already cheesy made drive train.
You see it all over the AX10, , upgrade driveshaft, upgrade locker, upgrade knuckles, guess it's a way to get it sold cheap and then make more money selling stronger parts.

That's probably why are stock Crawlers and such NEVER Strong enough


Clod has quite a few upgrades to get it strong enough as well, the axles are so messy/scraped together looking and the bergs looks really clean.

I hope that this En Route - Berg - Zero - OCM Why So many Freaking Names
will upgrade the parts or make stronger ones Available SOON !!


sorry for da hijack

[Dynamic^Cipher]

The names are for
berg axles
rockbull links
and
copperhead chassis

The 3 main parts of a crawler.

The integy clod axles with spool are looking pretty nice, but I'm also waiting to see what the XTM axles are worth. Havn't managed to break the bergs yet as that would increase my motivation to upgrade.

[fourxhondo]

Originally Posted by Kamikaze

The stubs, the inners and the gears. The actual case assembly is bomb proof. I'm shreading gears with 2.2 tires on it in a sub 6lbs truck. Honestly a built set of clods is your best bet. Unles you want to wait and see what XTM and Kyoshio have in store for us.

Could this be a hint of something coming soon????:-P
Inquiring minds need to know!

Cipher,
From the start of your build to now, huge improvement you'll have her all dialed in no time!
Lookin sweet!