incline climb for berg?

[mulepic]

Hi,
I've grown to really enjoy rc rock crawling and I've had a blast w/ my axial. I'm on the fence about upgrading to a berg (another $600 is hard to swallow). I've never seen one in action and I'm curious about its performance. One of the topics on the general forum I'm consumed by is the incline at which the berg can climb. I'm at 64 degrees w/ my axial and other are at a bit more. I'm curious how well a berg can do w/ its low center of gravity. Does anyone have any numbers on this? If I get a berg I'd most likely use the goat brushless (x2) I have so if anyone has any incline numbers w/ that setup I'd be really interested in them. Thanks!

[EeePee]

My drooper Berg will out climb anything!!!!! Any where! Any time!

No seriously, it climbs the steepest stuff we got. We did this incline test, and it climbed steeper than I could believe. We need to measure it, but it's really up there number wise.

[roborg5000]

Originally Posted by EeePee

My drooper Berg will out climb anything!!!!! Any where! Any time!

No seriously, it climbs the steepest stuff we got. We did this incline test, and it climbed steeper than I could believe. We need to measure it, but it's really up there number wise.

Yes indeed

[mulepic]

Thanks EeePee. I won't take this thread off topic but eventually I'd like to get your opinion on moving to a berg. But, I'd love to see the number you actually measure for the berg incline climb. Anyone have any numbers?

[mchester]

I'm at a measured 60 degrees (inclinometer) on a test board. Still need some work on the suspension and I am traction limited on the particle board. I'm going to cover the other side of the board with a thin coat of textured concrete patch, and we'll see what I get...

[mulepic]

One of the best traction surfaces I found is belts for a belt sander. I think I have 120 grit. I tried the black grip tape and it didn't work at all, I was surprised. So a couple of belts are pretty cheap and I stabled them to the board. Thanks for the info, I'm looking forward to seeing the results. Anyone else have them?

[dirk379]

I just build a berg... All i can say is i don't see myself going back to a shafty anytime soon.

[mulepic]

thanks dirk379, as not to derail this thread, can you give a brief explanation why? How well does your shafty perform, what mods did you do, and why do you feel the berg is better? Thanks!

[Harley]

The incline test you are talking about is really a very limited look at what you should consider.

The thing is that I could slam my old axial 1/2" off the ground and then the COG would be so low I would be limited only by grip (to an extent).

What the Berg does better is:

• Lower COG w/higher center clearence
• Better diff clearance
• No torque twist
• DURABILITY
• Chassis versitility (no motor and trans in the chassis anymore)
• DURABILITY
• Option for independant motor control (Front and Rear dig)
• Less scrub steer
• INSTANT dig control, no waiting or binding issues
• DURABILITY

But as with everything there comes negatives.

• Less wheel options to get you down to the most common widths (more and cheaper options continue to pop up though)
• Aluminum axle houseing can be "sticky" on the rocks if you don't cover them with a slick material (like associated chassis protector)
• High initial investment (but a well built pair of Axials will run about the same)
• Stock stub shafts should be replaced with Axial stubs
• Some parts are hard to get if you break them
• You may lose your friends when you kick their ass everyweekend

Just some things to think about.

[jombo]

i am all for durability my shafty is finally ok in the climbing dept buti still get breakage if i push it too far. i am hoping ,when built, the berg will out perform my truck 100 fold

[mulepic]

Thanks Harley0706 for the info. The durability emphasis rings loud and clear with me, although I've had no durability issues w/ my axial unlike others (knock on wood). As for the incline test, it has proven helpful to me. Even an increase of a single degree has produced noticable improvements on the rocks. Also, I'd be surprised how much gain you would get by slamming your chassis, I didn't get much. But if you do have some results definitly tell us what your setup is.

[Harley]

Originally Posted by mulepic

Thanks Harley0706 for the info. The durability emphasis rings loud and clear with me, although I've had no durability issues w/ my axial unlike others (knock on wood). As for the incline test, it has proven helpful to me. Even an increase of a single degree has produced noticable improvements on the rocks. Also, I'd be surprised how much gain you would get by slamming your chassis, I didn't get much. But if you do have some results definitly tell us what your setup is.

I have ran the test with my Berg. I never measured the degrees but it was so far past what any other rig I have seen perform. The reason I say this is because of the programing of my Futaba 4PK. When I activate one of the 2 mixing programs I have setup it delivers power to the front motor at a 2 to 1 ratio in respect to the rear motor (so when the throttle is pinned you get 100% front and 50% rear). What this allowed me to do was let the front pull me up with the rear just barely pushing (not enough to want to flip me over). The rig stopped due to lack of traction rather than COG.

As I said, it did more than I have ever PERSONALLY seen a rig do. The zero torque twist is also a big help.

[mulepic]

That's awesome, I'd love to see that! Do you have anyway of getting a measurement? I know when I first started doing this test I didn't measure the angle and I was really surpised how steep the incline was. But eventually I got an angle finder and found that I was only at 60 degrees. Then I heard of people cliimbing 70 degrees and I couldn't believe what a difference there was in just 5 degrees let alone 10. I understand if you don't measure the angle; thanks for the info. Being able to mix the axles like that is a huge plus (I run a dx6i) so your info is valuable should I get a berg.

[dirk379]

Yep Harley pretty much nailed it.

[binaryterror]

Harley's points are very accurate.

I am happy I switched. I have a tiny little pile of rocks, seriously tiny, but with my Shafty it had some spots that were tricky no matter what I did. I swapped to the Berg and 100% honestly the pile in the backyard is a joke now. Not a single hang up or hard line anymore.

Plus the electronic dig is 1000 times better. DNA makes a great unit but its hard to beat instant power shutoff.

[mulepic]

Thanks for the info guys, I'm almost ready to get a berg, but I'm going to have to wait till the funding is around. One of the reasons I like the incline test is b/c from a black and white perspective of a forum post some objectivity is present when judging performance. And it's obvious that even on such a basic test the advantages of the berg still shine. So I've seen shafties climb 65 degrees and some talk about them climbing 70 which I just think is amazing. But I had my suspicions that a berg could do even better so I thought I'd ask. So if someone can talk about how they measured their berg climb 80 degrees I'd be blown away, even 75 would be amazing. After all it does seems possible for a berg to do this b/c of its low CoG and the dig ability. For example my axial will hold (i.e tires not moving) 84 degrees before falling over backwards. Since a berg can climb while biasing its front, given enough traction, it seems reasonable it could climb well above 70 degrees. I think a video of that would be amazing. But I'll stop belaboring asking for measurements and just thank everyone for all the info they have provided!

[mchester]

All great points Harley, but my CG is so low, I don't think lowering ride height would do very much. Maybe I'll play with that a bit more and see. You reminded me I still need to make axle skids...

[jombo]

i am working on something right now to make any crawler better in a climb and i wouldnt be surprised if it would be the first 2.2 to climb stairs like a super. and this would work for any crawler not only the berg as i tested it in my shaft truck in the video (and it was on that truck but i dont think you can see it) . i just need a little more time in testing then i will reveal it.

[mulepic]

gyro?

[jombo]

simpler than that . i will post up my berg build with it on so you can see what i did, i am waiting for my other motor which should be in tomorrow. i will be testing it for the next few weeks before it actuallly gets too cold or snow. but i can say its a huge improvement in handling on the rocks and straight up climbing, with no weights in the tires, with weights its unbelievable.
here it is against the wall no weights in the test tires ,and thats all i will say for now