Axles for Sportsman Build
 

What are the pros and cons of using the SCX-10/old AX-10 axles versus using Wraith (AR60) axles for a sportsman build? I see a lot of the really cutting edge sportsman rigs running the old AX-10 scorpion axles. Do they have more steering throw or what?

I have a losi based sportsman and like it, my next sportsman build will be with scx\ax axles with xr mod, I don't know alot about them other than you could say the ar60 has more ground clearance, but really its just because the pumpkin is off center. The scx\ax axles are not as wide, but that is rectified with xr mod, and you get great steering. Pretty sure upgrades are similar between the two. That's about the extent of my knowledge right now


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Re: Axles for Sportsman Build
 

Thanks for the response! I've heard that the steering throw is much better for the SCX/AX axle. The reason that the AR60s are appealing to me is that they are set up for a 4-link suspension straight out of the box. What are my options for aftermarket upper link mounts on the SCX/AX axles?

It all depends on how far you want to go. If your going full comp sporty then contact ClassiCutCustoms he built my chassis, link plates, and electronics plate. Hell of a great guy to deal with also. Shoot him a pm and he'll get right back to you.


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Here's a link to my boxer build.
http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/axial-ax-10-scorpion/487613-fordsuperdutys-p40-boxer-build.html


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Re: Axles for Sportsman Build
 

Wow! Your rig is sweet. My plan is to slap these axles onto my GMade R1 (which is already running a hybrid Vanquish-ized Axial transmission) with the intent to eventually replace the chassis. Can you post some pics of the front plate, specifically the underside of it so that I can see how the links and servo attach?

Re: Axles for Sportsman Build
 

No, in stock form they have less steering, that's why so many have done the XR mod.

Pros:
-- Cost; the SCX axles are roughly half the price of the AR-60's. Leaves more money to go into other trick parts elsewhere.
-- Centered driveshafts; some just don't want to have to deal with offset driveshaft/link issues.
-- Narrower; in some comps, designers will set the gates relatively tight. There are rules on width of gates, but due to terrain you could run up against either a tight gate, or the need to turn in, or immediately after, the gate. In that case, narrower axles would give you more ways to approach the gate. With the wider AR-60's, you may have to come at them pretty square, and remain straight until you get the back end through. The XR mod does widen out the old SCX axles a bit, but I'd still rather run them than AR-60's.
(one front axle I have has the XR mod, the other two front axles and all three rear axles are stock width)

Cons:
** Narrower; two identical trucks... one with wider axles should be able to sidehill a little bit better. I obviously don't believe the benefit is tangible, nor do I spend enough time sidehilling to need such, but some like the wider AR-60's so they don't tip as easily.
** Steering; in stock form the steering on the Scorp/SCX axles is rather limited. After doing the XR mod, and then driving a stocker back-to-back, the difference is rather pronounced. Neither of my trail rigs have it, 'cause I just don't think I need it there, but in a comp crawler where you're dinged for every reverse, that extra steering comes in really handy.
** Strength; Some are not all that impressed with the strength of the SCX axle cases. Beef tubes were created to help solidify them. I haven't been rough enough with my equipment to see a problem. I did install the extended Beef tubes, but that was part-and-parcel with doing the XR mod, not due to any breakage.
**Shape; the SCX axle cases are a little bit blockier, chunkier, and squarish, whereas the AR-60's look to be a little more rounded and smoother. I suppose the argument could be made for getting hung up on rocks versus just sliding over them. Meh, an idiosyncrasy I'll deal with.


Both my Scorps came with the old style axles. That's what I cut my teeth on, had good luck with, and know best. I'm not saying AR-60's are better or worse, they're just a road I'm not motivated to go down. Newer people who started out with Ridgecrests/Wraiths might prefer those newer axles 'cause that's what they know. I personally think it's a horse apiece, whichever way you go.

NOW...... having said all that..... IF I had the capabilities to do axle work, and could center the pumpkin on some AR-60's, and run the XR swingshafts...... then we might be cookin' with gas! It's just prohibitively expensive for me to have someone else do it for me at this point.

If you don't mind using the off-center-pumpkins, you might be quite happy with the AR-60's. (shrug) I don't think you're gonna lose out either way you go.

Re: Axles for Sportsman Build
 

Trubble, thank you so much for the detailed response. That was extremely helpful. I was leaning towards the SCX axles and you just helped seal the deal. Really, my only reservation at this point is finding a way to do upper link mounts.

Re: Axles for Sportsman Build
 

--------------------
Axial P/N: AX80043

http://www.tcscrawlers.com/images/P/...inks_hires.jpg

1 for each axle, all you really want is the truss on top, the links can either be thrown away or re-purposed for something else. (does fit under the servo plate if you mount the servo in stock position, but does take away one screw from that plate. My CUCV uses this, works fine.)

--------------------

Or..... get a hold of Duuuuuuuude,
and ask about his D-mounts.

http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/membe...2052-52068.jpg

You can see how I have it mounted on the rear axle. For the front, I flipped it over (that's what the empty screw hole is for) and it sits under my battery tray up front. Like so.....

http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/membe...3046-41433.jpg

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Or..... GCM
has a truss that looks like it'd work okay for the rear, but you'd need to find something to do about your servo if you wanted to run this up front.
Other trusses have been offered by other mfrs, Dinky, Team3six (maybe?), Hot Racing, Int........ well, you can do a search for trusses and pick up what you want.

Re: Axles for Sportsman Build
 

Ooops, forgot........

If you go with the Vanquish or STRC battery plates for the front axle, those should have holes right on the back edge for mounting links, too.

If you make your own, leave a little extra for that.

http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/membe...2052-25518.jpg

Re: Axles for Sportsman Build
 

Now it all makes sense. Thanks for posting the pics and explanations.

Re: Axles for Sportsman Build
 

If you want to bolt it in and go....the SCX10 axle has all the trick parts available to get XR steering with only some fab skills.

If you like to fab stuff, the AR60 offers one significant edge over the SCX10.

The offset pumpkin allows you to drop the servo behind the axle and get it super low.

I like the steering geometry that comes with the servo stood upright instead of laying on its side.

The up and down swing of a servo on it's side is contrary to the side to side swing of the steering knuckle.

When they both swing the same direction, side to side, it just seems more logical. Like a real engineered automobile, for example.

I currently run an AR60 in front, and an SCX10 in the rear for that reason.

The SCX10 pumpkin is smaller and more rounded, so I kept the rear axle just the way it was.

I am currently building/built my custom front AR60, and so far I love it.

Though, it replaced a very trick custom behind the axle setup that worked great, too.

Look through my build thread to see it done both ways, all custom home fab; but some similar parts are available from various vendors.

http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/axial...gly-betty.html

Everyone has their opinion, and mine is just that; an opinion.

Re: Axles for Sportsman Build
 

Dude, that is one sweet rig! I will definitely be using your thread as a reference. I totally agree with you on the "upright servo behind the axle" concept. Kind of like what lux did here: Crawl ANZ - View topic - " THE JOKER"

Re: Axles for Sportsman Build
 

Thanks. I really enjoy hand building my stuff even though it means I don't always get it right.....a lot....lol.

You found a good vendor for cool parts for sure.

Hulksta Engineering is putting out some crazy stuff lately....very slick.

Anything is possible, so there really is no right answer, just lots of cool rigs built by many different people, with many different visions.

Re: Axles for Sportsman Build
 

You can do the same with the SCX/AX axles, though you don't get the servo quite as low. I've seen prototypes of one company's design for a mount. (I saw it, I don't have it.)

I like being narrow, with the option to go wider with wheel offset.

Re: Axles for Sportsman Build
 

I used to agree with you totally.....but

I've come to find less tire "throw", caused by using spacers, is even better.

I was very hesitant to use the AR60 due to it's width, lack of ability to stay narrow, and have some adjustability. Just like you said.

I've come up with a simple solution, and couldn't be happier.

Currently, Shift Hubs with a 1/8" spacer actually gave me worse clearance on my lower links/shocks due to tire "throw", than just running the Shift hub alone.

I'm just a smidge over 10-1/2" with the shift hubs, just a smidge under with SLW .225 hubs.

Locked up RC now offers a .185 hub if you really need to get a bit more.

I don't see any reason to go less than 10-1/2" honestly. Just my opinion.

What I have gained, beyond clearance, is less force required for the servo to move the tires, because they sit nearly right on top of the knuckle itself.

Check out my build thread and you can see pictures of what I'm saying.

I was as stubborn as a mule with converting, now, I doubt I'd ever go back.

I modded my ridgecrest pretty extensively, between the vp VVD axles and knuckles, shift hubs and some blue monkey base weights I saw great benefits in track width (less rock smashing axle housing), dinky s link to bring the servo down. Sorry, no build thread on it. I have 2 MOA crawlers - secret agent and double agent and a homemade secret agent based chassis with the ridgecrest skid, my own links, 60/40 by shortening front and lengthening rear driveshafts junfac and mip, beef toob front for some forward bias and knuckle stability, slw's with the custom pin tires, I guess I can't leave out the dig tranny... No comps here in the Ak Long story short, the crest will run with the agents except for here n there where my driving it is probably it's shortcoming. There is still some tuning to do that can take it further, but it's a slow project for me, it was a challenge to myself to try to make a shafty keep up with an MOA at less than half the price. I setup the susp so it's nearly full compression and rarely get hung on a rock on the skid... Only the ones that grab the MOA also and I just wiggle all three crawlers over no prob. Those shift hubs where one of the biggest driving differences in the entire project. If anyone wants to see pics feel free to pm me

Original plan was to run DE racing wheels with shifts, but the width seems perfect as is

Re: Axles for Sportsman Build
 

That is pretty much my situation. No comps here so my goal is to build a beast of a shafty with dig. What are shift hubs and what do they do?

You will have to run in the pro class not sporty. Sport class isn't allowed dig. But plenty of people own pro with shaftys "thumbsup"

Re: Axles for Sportsman Build
 

Shift Hubs are a bolt on style inner hub.

They come with 1/8" and 1/4" spacers that allow you to change your track width very easily.

http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/vendo...ighlight=shift