Oakes would be fine. Warmer weather would be better there. I would schedule it sometime in june/july?


- David

Thanks Dave. Maybe June 27 or July 18.
I'm getting excited about this whole thing.

Do the math Dave. Progressive is a much more accurate way.

You have to give it a chance first.

On the normal rcc rules, any newb can win with one good run. On the progressive system it takes an average from all courses.

We have proven this. And other clubs use this.

However if you think you will have a better chance with the old way then by all means go for it"thumbsup"


And that goes for you too Josh!! LOL



No seriously guys,
I vote for progressive, but I will be fine otherwise.



Really I could care less, I just hate being beat by someone who gets lucky. Burns my ..............:shock:

6/20akron
7/18columbus
8/15akron
9/26columbus

These are the new scaler comp dates(proposed). Which will be fine, except the 7/18. But since there are throwaways, I am cool with it!!

Thats 3 old shool and 2 progressive.
Rob ... anyone else speak up if you want to be heard.

I spoke with Tom about this as well.

You guys know I have no problem with the Prog system
It makes better drivers!!!
That said for the guys attending our events that have studied USRCCA rules may not agree. This is the standard and maybe we should stick to it for now.

We have 2 women already complaining :ror:

Sorry Bob I told told the other night Im not getting my instant thread updates all the time for some reason! And Im horrible at checking them :ror:

Dates are whatever for me right now.

The 4th is defiantly out for (4) of us.

I agree totaly. The RCC rules have worked out in my favor but I couldn't understand how I won that night.
I couldn't pass gate one in the first two of three courses and, like Tom said, got lucky in the third and took the night. Not to mention I was still a noob and sucked at driving....doesn't sound fair does it. I do not like to win like that because I didnt win a flawed rule did.

Not all courses are going to be perfectly progressive in lay out. Regardless, this system will help create the fairest playing field where good driving is rewarded and not good luck.

OK the score is 4 rcc 2 progressive.

I like the progressive scoring but it is the only one i have used so my opinion is a little bias.

I prefer the Progressive system even though I can see how the standard system might work in my favor as a Newb. I'd rather improve my driving than get a lucky win now and then...

OK we now have 4 for progressive and 4 not.

And I bet no one else will vote because... they're not on the internet!

We'll have to ask them in person.

I would like to bring this to a close tonight as well as the dates.
I dont want a ton of changes on the fly. You know if its not done ahead of time people think someone is gettin over. It may be a coin toss at the end???
I need to talk to Tom. I thionk the first date might be best at his place due to the rainy season.

We need some 20 point per gate score sheets.

I will make some score sheets for us that are professional.. Once everyone descides what the rules/points are.

This is one I threw to gether quickly for the scalers at NOSTR.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...RESHEETS-3.jpg


Of course ours can say what you want. Summer comp points series, whatever.

We can get that together but.... I think if we do that the progressive sytem again proves better. It gives a reason to make the gate instead of just loosing a single progress point. It keeps strategic driving in the game.

I'll be the judge of that.

Can you explain what you mean?


- David

I think that there should be an incentive to drive well. I think that the people who are able to make the gate should have a bit stronger reward for doing so than a single point. If driver A racks up 20 points or even less in some cases he can give up on that gate and take a pass. Driver B Tries and makes the gate but racks up 19 points doing so while driving well enough to avoid further points. The pay off should better for driver B than a single point. He actualy drove the course and did not place himself further by doing less. If 20 then repo to thenext gate without progressive the repo to next gate should also include a touch you are in fact moving it by hand.
Better drivers should end up on top not someone who gives up at an oportune time.
I hope this makes sense its hard for me to find the correct words to describe my thoughts.
I'm not trying to be an ass but it seems like alot of hand holding.

ok, that is what I thought you meant.

Progressive scoring ONLY rewards consistently if all gates get progressively more difficult. If they don't, your argument is far less valid (IMHO).

The real issue in setting up a progressive course is; since different types of rigs (MOA vs. Shafty) have different strengths, any given gate could sometimes be either progressively harder or not (depending on the rig).

I am just offering my .02 and will play by whatever rules you decide. Still, it shouldn't go un-noticed that our sanctioning body has chosen NOT to do progressive for a (or several) reasons.


- David

I see your point here. I hope that we can create gates that find a good median. No system is perfect. What are your thoughts on the 20 point per gate thing.

With time limits, it is the best system available. Not perfect but I have seen or heard of nothing better, yet.


- David

Dave, actually the progressive system is not based on a progressively harder course.

It rewards the competitor for finishing the course. The farther you make it the better you do. The old system gives only a -1 for clearing gate 9, but also a 1 for a reverse??? And this is where the problem starts. Clearing a gate is not worth anything. Under the old way, you just have 5 less reverses, and you are the same as clearing half a course!!!! Thats totally goofed.

I don't care if gate 2 is super tough, there is no way a guy that makes 2 gates through 2 courses and all gates through 1 course, should beat a guy who makes 9 through each course. That is flawed scoring.
RCC only goes by the system because its what origionally was used. NOT becuse it was the best. It just was thought of first.

The old system is based on a course where you complete ALL the gates. When courses are built where people do not finish, the old system doesn't work




However, I am also totally fine with what you guys come up with. I am just going to make the score sheets(with corys approval) with whatever you fellows feel is right. Just explaining why we have used the progressive system.

I will adapt and over come"thumbsup"

Alright, I was alittle proud of my sheets man.

Leave the professional out, I will do my best, hows that;-)

Good morning, Still tied...Coin flip.... Heads/ Progressive.........Heads
That was not in real time! there is no way I could do that and type.
It was a real scouts honor coin flip though. And only 1 flip. I didnt go best of till it went to my favor.


Now thats out of the way I don't want to vary from standards at every turn so I believe it best to follow 20pt/ Gate rule and the rest if no one objects. Tme limits to be set by course maker.

Interesting, that is how your "progressive" system was explained to me the first time I went there.


- David

By your comments I didn't think you understood. I may have been mistaken. Wasn't arguing, just trying to explain them.

uncle. my brain hurts.


- David

Well here is my 2cents.

2 guys run 1 course,
Guy #1 makes it through 8 gates guy #2 only makes it through 3 gates. Guess what......... Guy #1 got 8 points knocked off his score. Thats 5 more points he gets knocked off his total. Why?, because he went farther on the course than guy #2.

All you are doing with the progressive point system is making the numbers that get subtracted at the end of the run larger.

With the progressive system:

Driver #1 his score is a 4.
Driver #2 has a 34.


With the official system:

Driver #1 has a 32.
Driver #2 has a 37.

Now look at those...... can you tell me what the heck happened on that course by looking at the numbers for the progressive? Without pen and paper?

The official way.... no pen and paper required.

We are trying to get as many new people involved as possible right.......?

So why should we teach these new guys the Prog. system and then have them be lost on whats goin on when they attend another comp that uses the official scoring method?

With all of that being said, you kids do the scoring however you want.
Just dont ask me to help out with the scoring."thumbsup"


K.I.S.S.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Case closed fellows. you see my point.

This is not rocket science.

No offense Josh, but since when is help only involved if things go your way? Guys are trying to make this work, people have differnent views. Simple

To much drama for me fellows there are other games that are far less work and more fun.


Cancel my vote, it obviously does not matter.

Now no coin toss needed, back to old scoring.

The crawler drama is over, the world again rests.

The time for voting arguing and changes was last week. The only difference Josh sees is the need for pen and paper lucky for us all I can handle bringing some. I have spent too much time on this and am moving on.

This is just for fun so lets not dwell.

Really?........... out of everything I said that is what you took from it.

Come on Tom, when have I not helped.......

Just like at the last comp I halped judge a few runs, but what did I say right before I started? "I will mark the points down but someone else can add the crap up"."thumbsup"

K.I.S.S.
Keep It Simple Stupid.............

"thumbsup"

This is not a big deal fellas.
I'm sure it was a simple misunderstansing.
I kinda thought the same at first but you say otherwise and thats good enough for me.

I think some small things get lost communicating this way.

I know we are all itching to get out and do this so lets focus on moving forward.

I'm thinking Tom's, Griggs, Or Rob,s spot in Lancaster for the first date.
All 3 have a option if we get rain"thumbsup"

Any opinions........

I would love to check out the spot by Rob. From the videos he has posted it looks like a killer location."thumbsup"

Rob's is fine by me.

Nooby here and my 2cents, I think first of all it's great we are even doing what we are doing. Getting together at different courses and having fun. Even more so that no one will have any advantages over anybody else is great. Point system, well lets pick one and go with it and see how it works, nothing is set in stone, things can always be changed for the years to come, but I feel we all need to thank Bob for doing what he has done to start with. Let's start this year have fun and sit down at the end of the year, drink a few adult beverages and talk about things that need changed for the next year. It's not like we are going for a million $$$ or a chance to qualify for the nationals. Lets do what this made to do HAVE FUN. Bob, have truck will travel let me know where and when, hope to have everything done sometime so I will be there, and if Corey needs help keeping score I will help.

Ok that works for me{Rob's place}. It should have good overhead coverage just in case.

Let it begin
 

I would like to get the rest of the schedule hammered out in the next few days so we can get a few flyers to the hobby stores.

I am open to any input........Thats not what I mean... uh
All thoughts are welcome. That sounds better"thumbsup"

Does anyone besides myself want to check this place out before the 28th?

Or should we just wing it and you trust my judgment on this ?

Im fine with it but, want to be sure others are happy since we want to have F.U.N. "thumbsup"