2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

We need some volunteers for course setting and judging. The amount of courses will most likely depend on how many are willing to help.

I think course setting for 2.2p is pretty well taken care of. If youre not experienced in course setting, it may be best to take a back seat. If you really want to help out, judging is where we need the most help.

I signed myself up for setting up too many courses. I did this because I know I can get it done, not necessarily because I want to. Even though I put my name on them, let me know if you can setup a course and I will gladly replace my name with yours.



2.2S Judges
1. Hittman
2. RICrawler/BC Brian
3. Ndnchief10

2.2S Course setters
1. Hittman
2. Jens
3. Un-Bolt
4. Cboggs
5. Ndnchief10

2.2P Judges
1. Dlux/Krawler Kev
2. Ndnchief10/Hittman
3. Del Monte/Un-Bolt
4. UMPI/Curcal
5. The Violator/mammoth
6. nappahdog/McEide

2.2P Course setters
1.Dlux
2.Hittman
3.Curcal
4.Fishmaxx
5.BC-Brian
6. Krawler Kev

1.9 Judges
1. Winnerone23
2. Un-Bolt

1.9 Course setters
1. Winnerone23

Super Judges
1.Dlux
2.Curcal
3.Krawler kev

Super course setters
1.Dlux
2.Dlux
3.Un-Bolt
4.Hittman
5.Curcal

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

JRH, I dont know what is going on for Unlimited or trail. If they need to be added to this list, let me know.

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

Wow Kev! Thats the spirit! Thanks! Maybe a bit over done but we appreciate it! :flipoff:

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

Unlimited Mini will run with 1.9, with special gates where needed. Unlimited Standard will run with 2.2P, with special gates where needed. Trail will be integrated into the TrailMaster Challenge and will not be judged and set up like regular comp courses.


The unlimited special gates will depend on how many rigs there are, and how they are built. I can forsee 1.9 courses needing more "help" to challenge an unlimited rig, but a 2.2P course won't need as much besides a few tighter turns or something. We could also run the courses as-is without special gates to see how an unlimited rig stacks up against the standard class counterpart, it would make for an interesting and informative day.


Thanks for helping out on this portion Erik, the more people we can get to judge, the more courses we can run. If anything, we can use team judging for Sunday.

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

This is a cool concept but I think you would need to ensure someone that is Running 2.2P and 16" unlimited does not get a chance to "Pre-Run" the course with his unlimited and then hit it with his 2.2P.

Also Please sign me up to build a 2.2P course and RICrawler and I will go 50/50 on Judging Shafty.

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

2.2P and 1.9 (assuming they get more entrants) will have to be run first, then unlimited rigs. I think most folks who are in both classes will want to run back to back, more efficient on time and also a little knowledge bonus for the unlimited rig run.

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

If you need more help in course building, count me in...


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Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

Holy Jeebus.

I sure sound like a typical Canadian.:roll:

Damn Utards......

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

I know Dlux is only trying to help, but I would be cautious having a somewhat local driver that's also a contender setting the majority of the courses. In all my years going to Nationals locals might get to build 1x course max (rare) and they are always paired with non local co-builders

It's a recipe for major drama:to give one driver that much control. shock:
Just my 2 cents"thumbsup"


I will do my part to practice what I preach and step up to build 2.2p course(s) "thumbsup"

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

Im in to build course and judge for 2.2pro and Super. Id help with sport but i will not be there for that.

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

2.2s Judge
2.2s Course Builder
2.2p Judge
2.2p Course Builder
Super Course Builder

Why not right??


And as far as the unlimited rigs go.. Running them on the same courses, after the corresponding class has ran is a perfect idea. Most people running unlimited class rigs probably don't know their rig too well? It wouldn't hurt to run them on a course that is kinda familiar. Probably more the case for the 16" rigs, but keeping it the same for both is fine.

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

I'm in on course building "thumbsup"

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

Sounds like this is something that we will figure out?.... Also sounds like maybe we could do the judge yourself or team judging and not too many will care since it looks to be a low turnout?

Let me know if anything changes and I will edit the first post to pull some help.

Thanks for the help!

For judging, is there a way to talk you guys into doing a full course by yourself? If you do 50/50, then you run into the consistency problems of not being judged by the same people on every course. If you dont want to or cant do a full course and 50/50 is the best you can do, we will take that. Thanks again for stepping up and helping out! People like you will make this a great event.

We do. Which courses would you like to set?

Typical Canadian you are... We have all seen Strange Brew. What a great documentary that was.

Great! Which class(es)?

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

2.2s and 2.2p preferably ;-)

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

I can do 2.2p, 2.2s or super course??


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Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

Great! Thanks for the help un-bolt!

Looking at the numbers, there are approx 42 positions that need filled. When we are expecting somewhere around 50 people to compete, that pretty much means that everybody would need to fill a position in order to pull their weight. If not, somebody is pulling your weight for you! It would be great if we were in a position where we could just sit back and let others do work for us. Its not that way right now. If youre not filling one of the positions that need help, youre directly hurting our hobby.

Approx 21 spots needed to be filled for judging. Right now, we have 4 people pulling the weight of 7 and still need 14 spots filled!

Approx 21 spots needed to be filled for course setting. Right now, we have 8 people pulling the weight 14 and still need 7 spots filled!

There are 8 people pulling the weight of 21 people!!!!!!

I am all for helping out and getting some good run time in with proper judging but,... if we as a whole dont have enough sense and offer up some self sacrifice to help and save ourselves, then all is lost, burn this thing to the ground. Right now the hobby needs our help more than ever. This could be the year where it either turns and grows or turns and dies off for good. If you dont think that YOU have a choice in where it goes, YOURE MISTAKEN!

This is the last I will say about the whole thing. Right now, we would be running the same plan as what I thought we were trying so hard to rally against. Maybe it was just me that was opposed. If so, sorry, lets just go back to the original plan. If this all stays the same, we will have 4 2.2p courses, hopefully more than 2-3 courses for all the other classes (if anybody else decides to step up) and team judging looks like it could be here to stay?

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

I'll snag 1.9 building and judging. To start with....

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

I can set up courses for any class you need."thumbsup"

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

I see a lot of people willing to set-up courses........

But not nearly as many volunteering to judge:roll:

This is becoming a major issue with comp crawling. Why no volunteers? Scared to make a mistake? Feel like judging will hold you back from winning? Don't want to "ruin" your vacation? Feel you have "paid your dues"?

Post up some answers to my question above.

I volunteered ASAP as I want to run as many courses as possible and without volunteers I will be stuck running 4 courses. 4 courses for a Worlds title is very disappointing.

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

I have no problem judging, I do it for my own club and I do it when I go to large events (Nats/Regionals). I volunteered to split the duties judging a course but was told that that would not be consistent. I am hesitant to sign up to be the SOLE judge running a course all day because I feel I will be stuck there all day. This seems to be different than other years where there were 2-3 judges per course so they could share duty, go run a course, take a bathroom break, etc. It is the same concern I have with team format because that can lead to one or two guys in the team doing all the work while the others vanish for hours on end.

I hope we can figure out a way to make this go down without burning out the handful of people that volunteer... Maybe team format is the way to do it... Perhaps you can incentivise the team members to do all pitch in by awarding the "best" teammate on each team (decided by captain or vote) something cool to win.

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

Good post Brian. I have been to Worlds in your neck of the woods and you stepped up to the plate BIG time. It was greatly appreciated along with the efforts of the Boston Crawlers. It just seems like the same people are always stepping up.

I also do not want to be the sole judge all day on a course. By volunteering, I was assuming that there would be two or three judges per course and you could have a small break when required.

Another thought, similar to BOTW, is run morning courses and afternoon courses (we ran 4 in the morning and 4 in the afternoon for a total of 8 courses.........8 courses). There were morning judges and a different crew of judges for the afternoon. Keep in mind that the afternoon courses were new courses.

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

To be honest my bad back cant last standing around judging for an entire day, if I did judge then I'd be on pain killers by the time it was my turn to go drive (which might be a good thing, lol). That's my personal reason anyway, if it was split into shifts it might be more tempting for most, but then you lose the consistency of judging. Im happy to help any other way I can.

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

Man, totally bummed I can't make this event.
You know I would help out wherever I could...
Hope to see you guys in November!"thumbsup"

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

Its seemed the Team Concept was discarded for some reason. I have no intention of being stuck alone on a course.judging. That dosn't mean I won't help out. It was 104 in Logandale today. If the temperatures in September are below 90 we will be very fortunate. If anyone thinks they will get consistent judging by having someone bake for 3-4 hours is foolish and dangerous. If thats the plan there needs to be shade and cool water on every course so between drivers judges can cool off.

Instead of bar codes, and other foolishness to make scoring easier for a 50 man comp when we have proven methods that work for 100+ driver comps. Someone should spend some time figuring a way to be tracking and rewarding judges that pull their weight in team judging format.

No judging format yields perfect results because we are humans. Calls we be missed no matter what. Tried judges are just as inconsistent as different groups of judges. At least with team format all the judges are familiar with the course and know its idiosyncrasies.

I am more than happy to be a course manager ot team captain. IMO teams should be a MINIMUM OF 8.

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

I'll judge and build if needed. It's just as hot here as it is in Logandale, so I'm not too worried :mrgreen:

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

The team format has not been discarded (thread hidden to avoid confusion for now), but because of the points brought up and driver preference we will certainly do our best to set up a more traditional judging style . Once we find how far traditional judging can take us, team judging is easily implemented if needed. Half day rotating judges may be the best compromise of consistency, as John's point of how difficult it is after 3 hours straight is important to consider.


Bar codes and foolishness huh? Sounds like you just volunteered to keep score all day on a spreadsheet or track judges and rewards for us! Must I remind you of how long I've waited for scores to be tallied at your own events? The choice between cramming data entry at the end or having to do it all day sucks both ways. Just how many times have we seen finals stretch far past sunset because of the hour or longer it took for two or three people to painfully tally scores after courses closed? The only thing that has been proven, is that the method of score entry into a spreadsheet is an easy area for trimming time and reducing mistakes. I'm lazy when something can be automated so you can rest assured it will be a useful tool for any event to have. No mouse, no scrolling, no searching or lookup tables, no accidental wrong column or line entry. The database and interface is already made, it saves my business hours of labor each week. So unless you just volunteered to sit at a computer all day, your getting a barcode mister!



Water and food for long haul judges should be considered a given. Substantial shade will be a trickier matter, as I don't have a spare half grand for pop ups. But maybe some locals could loan them out for the weekend?

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

Not sure what events your talking about, but the last 3 Nationals we had results live via Google doc with in minutes of the last driver running and the score sheets being turned in we had Finals sorted and set.
Destoyer, RCBros, and BC Paints collected scores through out the day. Must be another event you attended that took hours to get results, but it wasn't one of mine"thumbsup"

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

I must be remembering an east coast championship, but late running scores have always been problematic. Sure, three people managing scores all day sounds like a great way to handle it. Since you aren't jumping to tally scores all day for me I can only assume your not that fond of staring at a spreadsheet either, so I'll be using our system that takes 15 seconds per driver so those three folks can do something fun the other 95% of the day. Don't know why you are micromanaging this aspect other than to point out that we need to attract more judges in the same breath.

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

First off I have no problem entering scores. Happy to do in fact. Secondly ECC has NEVER ran Finals in the dark either. Last but not least it was 1x score keeper per event.
2014 = BC Paints
2013 = RCBros
2012 = Destroyer
All other dates = Badger

I guess I should have chosen different words, but as a driver spending $10000's to come this event I would like to have an idea of the number of courses and classes I can run (judge dependent) As someone who has tried many times to attract judges and scorekeepers to work at his events. Finding scorekeeper was never a problem usually had at least 2 or 3 volunteers. Finding 18 judges has always proven difficult.

Realistically the Team concept is the most likely to produce enough judges to SAFELY and efficiently get at least 6 courses. It also considers the heat and number of drivers. If the team concept is to be used I would like to see some thought put into addressing some its deficiencies that popped up during its use at previous events.

I am sure the barcode system will work flawlessly, so let's get back to figuring out how to judge this thing."thumbsup"

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

Just making a wild assumption, but you are probably not the typical physical status of the average rc rock crawler.:shock:

I am also not worried about the heat since I am currently building decks and retaining wall in the Atl heat and humidity. Yesterday was 96 with a heat index over 100.

I have seen first hand what happens to guys not acclimated to the climate, and I am worried about the guys on the other end of physical stature.

The last time National was in Vegas I think we were off the mountain and in the AC by 2:00

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

Getting towards the end of season, and there are some good deals. Academy Sports had them for $49 and Walmat $69 the last time I was in the stores.

Academy Sports + Outdoors™ Easy Shade 10' x 10' Pop-Up Canopy | Academy

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

ECC never ran in the dark. That was Nationals when it was at Little Rock. I remember the lights.

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

Not many will remember it.. But.. A finals course(sporty I believe) was ran in the dark at ECC this year. :)

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

Not only a train wreck but the whole subject is also derailed. They call that two birds with one stone... :mrgreen:

http://www.ncbam.org/images/photos/train-wreck.jpg

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

How about talking about what CAN be done?

Seems to me, the only real idea we have is team format. Looks like we do have plenty of people willing to help set up courses so we are good there.

Anybody have any ideas about what can be done other than that? If not, seems like it is what it is, lets get the team format deal going.

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

Team format is a viable method. Team captains need to run a tight ship to keep things moving along. I think we should list the things that need to be addressed so things run smoothly.

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

At "BIG". 42 drivers with start at 9.30AM and finnish 7 courses at 17.00PM. This weekend.

They jused group mode. 7 groups.


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Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

I guess we could consider another method like we ran at the AZ shootout. I think other than having 100% trust in others it worked out really good.

It was as simple as it could get. We ran in whatever groups we wanted, with whomever we wanted and we all just judged ourselves within that group. The next group came along and did the same.

One thing I can see that is great about this way is that there is no real organizing, no real accountability. It just boils down to taking care of yourselves.

Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

I will also volunteer as judge if needed!


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Re: 2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS
 

Team judging, I think guys in a group should have times slots they need to be on course to judge. Over lapping new judge with previous judge to shadow previous judge to keep course consistent in score keeping.
If I understand team judging ea person (if we have 50 competitors) only judges 5 drivers in a perfect scenario.