Havoc vs hell storm for 2.2 bully

[losikid]

What would be a better chassis for the 2.2 bully be. the havok with a torsion front or a hellstorm that has shocks all the way around. Also any suggestion to suspension setup up for either chassis would be great

[JeremyH]

It is all personal preference and the types of terrain you drive on. I have had a fully torsion rig (pimp cane clod) in the past and it worked well on courses that did not have a lot of deep holes. Personally, my driving style is better suited for a fully suspended crawler. You might want to contact Run2Jeepn and ask his opinion....

[losikid]

most of our terrain we crawl on is on the side of a cliff face so not to many deep holes are around

[run2jeepn]

Both are great chassis's. Both are easy to set up. The HaVoc takes more time to learn to drive due to the Torsion. But many can't tell it's even torsion till they look closer.

[roro72]

I'm waiting on my Hellstorm. I look for what the other drivers in my area drive to get help when needed. Found nothing but people willing to help, here on the site and locally.

[losikid]

Originally Posted by run2jeepn

Both are great chassis's. Both are easy to set up. The HaVoc takes more time to learn to drive due to the Torsion. But many can't tell it's even torsion till they look closer.

Whats the advantages and disadvantages of the torsion, how does it affect how you drive

[Culetto]

Its simpler than it sounds. 90% of any rig is knowing what it will do in a given situation and thats just having wheeltime.

The torsion on the Havoc in the normal setup is pretty easy to master in this regard. Just remember that the front will drive the chassis on this type of rig. Maybe i better explain that more, let me to get on my other computer, typing this out on my dell mini9 will give me a migrane, lol.

[Culetto]

Ok basically its like this. Forget all the benefits of torsion or non torsion as this applies to ANY rig and is more just driving and something to watch for.

In normal driving either one end of your rig will react first or both will react at the same time. There are benefits to both.

On a full sprung rig with identical shock springs/oil/angle/preload on all the shocks when you articulate the axles under its own weight the front and rear axles will react at the same time and rate and the chassis will tip at half the rate of either.

If you run a bit softer in the front the chassis will follow the rear axle in the same manner.

On the Hellstrom because of the torsion in the front when you articulate the axles under its own weight the chassis will follow the motion of the front axle and will only really articulate the front end after the rear springs are pushing back at the same rate as the torsion arms. This is why the Havoc can climb such nutty ledges because the chassis follows the front axle and keeps so much more pressure on the front tires.

You may be thinking that ''balanced is better because it will work in more situations" but thats not really the case. It all comes down to you and your driving style. The Hellstrom does have a learning curve because its different. You will have to look at your own lines, not just follow the same lines as the guy in front of you. The Havoc will make the same gates as any other chassis however it will have a different way of going about it, however it will also have some advantages in pull-up ledges and long sidehills.

[catpwred]

Originally Posted by Culetto

Ok basically its like this. Forget all the benefits of torsion or non torsion as this applies to ANY rig and is more just driving and something to watch for.

In normal driving either one end of your rig will react first or both will react at the same time. There are benefits to both.

On a full sprung rig with identical shock springs/oil/angle/preload on all the shocks when you articulate the axles under its own weight the front and rear axles will react at the same time and rate and the chassis will tip at half the rate of either.

If you run a bit softer in the front the chassis will follow the rear axle in the same manner.

On the Hellstrom because of the torsion in the front when you articulate the axles under its own weight the chassis will follow the motion of the front axle and will only really articulate the front end after the rear springs are pushing back at the same rate as the torsion arms. This is why the Havoc can climb such nutty ledges because the chassis follows the front axle and keeps so much more pressure on the front tires.

You may be thinking that ''balanced is better because it will work in more situations" but thats not really the case. It all comes down to you and your driving style. The Hellstrom does have a learning curve because its different. You will have to look at your own lines, not just follow the same lines as the guy in front of you. The Havoc will make the same gates as any other chassis however it will have a different way of going about it, however it will also have some advantages in pull-up ledges and long sidehills.

nice write up

[losikid]

Originally Posted by Culetto

it will also have some advantages in pull-up ledges and long sidehills.

So having the havoc will help beings most our lines are ledges on the side of cliff faces

[Culetto]

Originally Posted by catpwred

nice write up

Hehe, i think i went a bit overboard but thanks

Originally Posted by losikid

So having the havoc will help beings most our lines are ledges on the side of cliff faces

Yup, if you are willing to commit the practice time for the Havoc it will do much better on pull-ups.



One thing i suggest to everyone, no matter what rig type or chassis, is not to watch other people run too much before you run. Not every rig reacts the same, know what YOUR rig will do and choose your own lines. It helps more with the Havoc but everyone should be doing it.

[papabash]

Originally Posted by Culetto

The torsion on the Havoc in the normal setup is pretty easy to master in this regard.

Brings up an interesting point here......... I know it is personal preference like everything else, but in your opinion, did the Havoc work better with or without the short shocks you once had on the front instead of the torsion bars, and why or why not?

[Culetto]

Originally Posted by papabash

Brings up an interesting point here......... I know it is personal preference like everything else, but in your opinion, did the Havoc work better with or without the short shocks you once had on the front instead of the torsion bars, and why or why not?

I liked it with the little shorty's oon the front. They were touring car shocks so only moved about 1/4 inch but it loosened it up just enough to allow the kind of flex i like. Still climbed like a mofo. TBH the only reason im switching to the hellstrom is to try something different this season and work on my cantilever idea. There was nothing about the chassis i would have changed.