Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

I've always been a fan of leaf spring trucks. Blame it on growing up in the 80's with the awesome square bodies of the day. The ease of installing suspension lifts and big tires was another reason. This is probably why I love my GMade Sawbacks so much. Because of the leaf springs, a TF2 has always been on my radar, but for some reason it always got pushed behind other truck kits. But that has ended now as I have a TF2 Mojave II kit on the way.

I even acquired 1.55 wheels for my future TF2 build over a year ago. And then with the recent Pitbull RC sale I picked up the 1.55 Rock Beast tires. I'm a huge fan of these in 1.9 so I'm sure I'll love them just as much in 1.55, especially with the new Alien Kompound.

Here are the Pitbull Rock Beasts on Motoworx Racing 10-Hole wheels. It's not often you start with wheels and tires, but I can't get enough tires and wheels so it's fitting for me.

I plan on making this truck look like a streetable truck that an average person would have lifted and put bigger tires on back in its day. Outside of that I have no direction in mind - no paint color(s), no upgrades, no electronics...nothing.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4391/...5b8c2033_b.jpg

Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

hey, you've got to start somewhere, and those are some really nice rims and tires.

Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

Well I'll be... Did I see airborne swine? Jato voluntarily purchased a TF2? :ror: In all seriousness, the wheels and tires are a great start, and I look forward to seeing your build. "thumbsup"

Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

Can't wait to see it come together. I love my 1.55 rock beasts so far. You're literally building this one from the ground up!

Ben

Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

Thank you! I had to have these wheels when I saw them for sale here in the classifieds. I'm not normally a fan of black wheels because I think black wheels on black tires can be a bit too much, but we'll see if I continue to like these once installed on the truck.

Nope. That was the ghost of Evel Knievel jumping his hog in the sky! :lmao:

Just because I am critical of brands and products doesn't mean I don't like them nor does it mean I won't run them. "thumbsup"

The small 1.9 Rock Beasts are one of my all-time favorite tires. I'm sure they kick ass.

:lmao: Yes, I guess I am building from the ground up.


The TF2 kit is supposed to be here Wednesday. I'm also getting a Tamiya kit Wednesday or Thursday so I might start with that build as I acquire all of the stuff needed for the TF2.

One of my big decisions is the color of the body. I've been looking through the gallery trying to decide on one color. This is a tough decision for an indecisive person like myself! :lmao:

So far the only "upgrade" I've ordered for the TF2 kit is a stainless steel hardware kit from Team KNK. One of my friends, who is a Gelande II nut and TF2 owner said that RC4WD's hardware isn't the best.

What I gathered from reading the TF2 guides is that the driveshafts are the biggest weak spot. Are the RC4WD Punisher shafts durable? MIP is always pricey. I've had good luck with Junfac. I just have to decide the brand and figure out the needed lengths and order up.

Are the RC4WD XVDs the only CVDs available for the TF2?

I think the hardware, driveshafts, and CVDs will be the only upgrades I start with. But I'm open for other suggestions if there are "must haves" to install right away.

Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

The RC4WD Punishers other than the v3 have been fairly durable for me, but the Junfacs have been even better (they've actually held up better for me than MIPs). I've heard good things about Hot Racing and Boom Racing shafts from multiple friends, but I haven't tried either.

The only XVDs I know of are the RC4WD versions. You get about 35 degrees of steering with them (better than stock), and durability is much better than stock. Of course, I'm partial to a completely different axle, but that's another story... ;-)

As for other upgrades, a high clearance skid is a must. Ours works very well, and RC4WD has a new one that should be pretty good, also. The other upgrade I'd call a must is G2 hoops in front with longer than stock shocks. I've been happy with my LWB setup -- G2 hoops with the kit rear 90mm shocks mounted in front, and the kit front 70mm shocks mounted in the rear on a straight upper shock mount instead of the raised mount. With internal springs removed and 3k diff fluid in the shocks, it makes for a good baseline setup. One thing to watch for with the stock shocks is the brass inserts in the lower mounts coming out. If (more like when) they do, they can be glued back easily enough.

Apart from those things, the rest of the platform is very robust. Enjoy the build! "thumbsup"

Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

Leaf springs for the win."thumbsup" With 1.55 rockbeasts, and a daily driver at that.

Is it going to have TOY on the gate like everyone else did to their lifted 4 cylinders?

Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

Junfacs have treated me well and they're cheap so maybe I'll go that route. Which set are you using? I believe I read the Axial Dingo set works on the TF2.

Your axles are awesome, but I want this truck to remain all metal.

Is the RC4WD low profile skid plastic or metal? I didn't know they had one of their own.

What do the G2 hoops buy you? More travel? I'll have to check out your LWB build thread assuming all of the info is in there.

The stock shocks - are they boingers or do they hold oil? I don't think anybody makes a small diameter, scale-looking shock that holds oil. At least not that I know of.

Ha. I'll probably do the full TOYOTA, but we shall see. TOY would be period-correct.

Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

These bodies look great in orange - which would look badass with your wheel choice. White body with orange pinstriping would be my choice!

Your friend is right. The stock hardware is ridiculously soft - I have MIP tools and as long as you stay square and don't overtighten you can manage it, but it can and will strip easy. Other advice here - use loctite everywhere. Because the leafs make for such a bouncy ride, hardware tends to come loose.

The stock driveshafts are a joke. You will get a good chuckle when you see/feel them. I know I did.

I ran the Punisher shafts on mine and they held up great!

If you can afford it, I'd suggest getting the HD diff gears as well. You can sell your stock stuff to help, it's worth it. I ran the K44 axles on mine, but my friend has a TF2 Yota with Yota axles and he's chewed up stock gear sets, but once he switched to the HD ones and shimmed properly he hasn't had any further issues.

Also invest in a low-profile skid. I ran the Bowhouse one from Shapeways and it was tough as nails and made a big difference for clearance. The stock one is brutal! Gelande II front shock hoops are worthwhile too, so you can run a longer shock up front (most run 90mm, some 100mm). The stock hoops and 70mm shocks don't offer much/any travel. The rest of the truck is very stout.

The stock shocks look nice but don't offer anything for performance, and of course they don't hold oil. I removed the inner springs but found that with the Blazer body the leafs didn't offer enough spring, which meant I was running full droop if you will. I added diff fluid to mine to help with dampening, but ultimately I ended up running them with just a few drops of oil for lubrication and put the inner springs back in. On the Blazer, it reacted just like a 1:1 would - bouncy as hell and kind of entertaining to watch.

Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

I'm pretty sure those are the ones I used. RC4WD has a handy chart showing you which Punishers work with which RC4WD trucks, and it can help you figure out lengths for other brands of shafts:
http://rc4wd.com/Doc/Shafts.pdf

Thanks and lol re metal vs plastic. The RC4WD skid is Delrin. Ours is SLS nylon and has a bit more clearance. Boom Racing has an aluminum one, but aluminum grabs the rocks a lot more than Delrin or SLS nylon, so you won't see as much of an improvement there.

G2 hoops have 2 mounting holes, one that is 7mm higher than stock TF2 and one that is 12mm higher. Allows you to run a longer shock for more suspension travel. I like the upper hole with a 90mm shock in front.

I cover this in the TF2 guide on the RC4WD forum and also have a lot of suspension setup info in my 3 TF2 threads here.

Funny question. I've had some that hold oil for months, and some that don't. Some that held oil for a year until I cleaned and refilled tham, and then wanted to start leaking. So it's a bit of a mixed bag. I like 3k diff fluid and use green slime, which helps. But on trucks where I run the stock shocks, I just accept that more frequent refills may be needed.

Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

Handy guide. Thanks!

OK I will give yours a try. I assume I will also need your coupling bracket then. Is that correct?

See that's not acceptable to me. A $400 kit should include shocks that hold oil if they're meant to hold oil. Seems like a great area to upgrade.

Are there any shocks, similar in diameter to the stock shocks, that are meant to hold oil and actually hold oil? I want oil shocks while retaining the scale appearance of the smaller diameter shocks.

Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

Your not going to find an oil filled shock that size that works properly. They hold oil just fine, but there isnt enough capacity to work.

I ran 5k wt oil in mine, about 1/2 full to prevent hydrolocking.

Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

You only need the coupling bracket for the LWB model. The standard WB and SWB trucks don't have a coupling behind the t-case and therefore don't need the bracket.

Lol...the other narrow-bodied shocks from RC4WD (Emus and Superlifts) are better than the Ultimate Scalers but still not great at holding oil. There are a few medium-bodied shocks that seem to hold oil pretty well. Traxxas GTS (from the TRX-4) have been excellent so far, and GMade RSDs seem to be holding their oil well (though not as smooth as the GTS). Proline Scalers are decent (not great), as are RC4WD Kings and RRD Emulsions. But all of those are much wider than the Ultimate Scalers. I haven't tried anything from Boom Racing, so I couldn't tell you if they're any better.

Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

Well that's a bummer. I guess I'll start with the stock shocks and upgrade as I see fit. Leaf springs need good oil shocks to work well IMO.

I wish I had known I'd have this kit and need your skid plate when the free shipping promotion was still live at Shapeways. :lmao:

EDIT: Well I was able to get the skid tacked onto my previous order so I did get free shipping. Cool. "thumbsup"

So to start I'm doing the stainless steel hardware, Bowhouse skid plate, XVDs, Junfact driveshafts, and the GII front shock hoops. EDIT: Hoops are OOS everywhere so I guess I'm not getting those to start.

Which size shims should I have on hand for the axles, etc. for this truck?

Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

Just a heads up, I see Amazon has the G2 shock hoops on stock right now. That's where I ended getting them last week.


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Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

Thank you. I avoid Amazon like the plague, but maybe I'll make an exception this time.

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Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

I get that. No prob. Btw, I have an issue maybe you could help me with. Can you please look under the TF2 thread and see my "Steering linkage/suspension issue". I actually should have called it Panhard/suspension issue. I just cannot figure what the issue is. Thanks.


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Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

It looked like normal bump steer to me. But I'm not a TF2 expert since I don't have one yet.

I found the hoops and XVD on Horizon Hobby's website so I ordered from there instead.

Now I'm going to size the Junfac driveshafts.

Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

Today is TF2 day. I won't begin the build today though. I'm waiting on parts and the Tamiya TA02T that is coming tomorrow will be built first.

I ordered the Bowhouse low-profile skid plate, GII front shock hoops, Junfac Dingo driveshafts, and XVDs.

Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

Well I wasn't that excited until it got here. I said I was going to wait. I couldn't resist.

4 quick questions before I forget.

1. Does the shackle dimple go inside (towards the other half of the shackle) or outside? See photo below.

2. Stock foams are soft. They seem too soft. Are they? I plan on running the stock single stage foams in my 1.55 Rock Beasts, but they seem too stiff.

3. Does anybody put silicone, RTV, etc between the front and rear of the axle halves?

4. I am using blue thread lock everywhere to this point while building the frame rails. Is this OK or do you put red Loc-Tite everywhere?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...5805ee228b.jpg

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Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

1. I don't think it matters, but I put mine facing inside.

2. Stock foams are fine with the Mud Thrashers which are in the relatively firm X3 compound (stock tires and foams happen to work well for an all-purpose trail tire). Not sure how they'd work on the RBs. The Alien Kompound is obviously much softer, but the RB's have a beefed up sidewall that might offset. That said, I find these new gen stock PB foams to work very well. Yes...they're stiff, but the Alien Kompound is soft enough that it doesn't need a soft foam to hook up.

3. I don't, but I also don't try to use mine as a mud truck, lol.

4. Definitely use blue, not red. Red is much stronger than you need and can lead to damage if/when you need to take out screws down the road.

Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

1. I didn't think it mattered either, but I put them all on the inside.

2. I'm not sure I'll use the stock tires. If they were X2 SS I would give them a shot. I really wish RC4WD would get rid of X3 compound and switch everything over to X2 SS. I'd love if they made the 1.55 Rock Stompers in X2 SS and I know a lot of others would agree. I know you have connections at RC4WD. Maybe you could put in a word about getting Rock Stompers made in X2 SS! "thumbsup"

3. I don't go in the mud often, but I will do it and I will run in shallow water. I'd rather be prepared for that in case. I'll have to find out what others have done.

4. Good to hear. I started building with blue. I never use red Loc-Tite on RCs. But I know some guys said they use red on their RC4WD vehicles especially with the kingpin screw.

Thanks for your continued help. I really appreciate it! "thumbsup"

Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

I packed my axles with Marine Grease same thing i did for my axial scx10

The stock foams are pretty good. After a few runs they will soften up a little and as everyone says the mud thrashers are a pretty decent tire. Im still running them until i get around to trimming some fenders to make room for the rock stompers

Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

I ordered the HobbyWing WP1080 for this truck. I think I have a cheap-o 45T brushed motor at home that I'm going to start with until I get a feel for the speed. Now I just need a steering servo, shift servo, and receiver.

Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

Just FYI - the kingpin screw stripping out is an issue on the Yota 2 axles (the ones that come standard on the Gelande 2 trucks and the TF2 SWB). The original Yotas that come on the standard WB and LWB TF2s don't have that issue.

One thing you'll need to do though is check the ring/pinion shimming. This gearset (which is used in both the OG Yota and the Yota 2) is very sensitive to shimming variations, especially in the OG Yota housing. If it's off by a little, the gears strip easily. If the shimming is correct, they tend to hold up well. It used to be that all you needed to do was swap the shims in the front axle so the thicker shim was inside the housing and the thinner one was outside. Within the past year, RC4WD made some adjustments to the manufacturing specs to try to correct this, and I'm not sure how consistently they're coming out with proper shimming. So it's a good idea to check each axle separately. A good rule of thumb is to bring the pinion in as far as possible without causing binding. Once you have that squared away, these axles tend to hold up well.

Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

I am running the same ESC with a 45 t motor...wish it was a 27 or a 35 t

Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

Good to know. I knew the Gelande II has the Yota 2 axles, but I didn't realize the SWB also has Yota 2's. I wonder why all of the trucks don't use the same axles.

I've read some of your guide and saw the old shimming method. I'll be sure to check it out when I open the axles to grease them. I opened up the transfer case tonight. It appears they are using white lithium grease. I cleaned that up and used marine grease. Marine grease is tacky and the TF has lots of gears between the trans, t-case, and axles so I hope it doesn't cause too much drag.

Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

I use Lucas Red n Tacky, so you should be fine with marine grease. Just don't overdo it, but you already know that, lol. These trannies are very stout. I've never had any issue or failure with an R3 (single or two speed).

Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

In my experience it's hard to "overdo it" since gears clean themselves out. I didn't pack the transfer case full so I should be good. "thumbsup"

Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

I swore I wrote more posts. I must be losing my mind. Hint - I am. :razz:

So let's get onto the build, shall we?

When I opened up the shipping box it looked like the TF2 box had been through heck. Large chunks of the shrink wrap were missing and the closing tabs on the box weren't inserted correctly. It's like I got the box that was the very last one made on Friday before quitting time. But the RC4WD factory seal was in tact so I assumed I was good to go.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4455/...5a7fe88e_b.jpg

When I opened the box I was greeted with bubble wrap and plastic bags. Hmm I remember the earlier boxes being packaged much nicer. The old boxes had a layer of dense foam and there were cutouts for each individual part. Cost savings. Oh well.

Under all of this were the frame rails which were recessed into the dense foam I just mentioned.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4463/...580d73bf_b.jpg

I thought this was funny. The included their retail pack of shock oil, grease, and thread lock instead of just throwing them in the box. I'm not sure why, but I thought that was cool.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4434/...2684f31b_b.jpg

Scrwes bag? :shock: I'm not familiar with that language. Must be French! :lmao:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4462/...1ae50c59_b.jpg

Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

The first step I did, of course, was to mount one of the tires on the wheels. But Jato, you have Motoworx Racing wheels and Pitpull Rock Beast tires so why bother? Well I'm kind of a wheel and tire addict so I couldn't help myself. :razz:

People that say these wheels are hard to mount don't know what they're doing. All it takes is a screw, two washers, and a nut. Put it through the center of the wheel and tighten it down to lock the tire and wheel into place. Now you can easily install the 6 screws to hold the wheel together. It's literally that simple.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4507/...4ed67c0e_b.jpg

Now for some more tips. The body post is a pain to hold while tightening the screws. You can't get a grip on it. Shock pliers would come in handy here, but mine always seem to be hiding so I found a second best option. I took this old, ancient actually since I've had this since I was a little kid, wire crimper/stripper pliers and used the crimping end to hold the body post. This actually worked well.

When in doubt think to yourself, "What would MacGyver do?" :lmao:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4441/...0b841da5_b.jpg

The manual has some Chenglish about the holes in the rock slider being a little tight. A little? :shock: It's nearly impossible to get a screw in there as-is. To make it easier to thread the screw into the plastic I took my body hole reamer and put a chamfer on the plastic rock slider. This makes it so much easier to start a screw in plastic. This trick will come in handy fairly often. This reason, alone, is why you should have a body reamer. I don't use mine to make holes in bodies.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4354/...9a3d32dd_b.jpg

Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

This is where I finished last night. The frame is mostly built.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4455/...156ab2e2_b.jpg

I also disassembled the transfer case, cleaned out the white lithium grease, and greased it with marine grease. I still think the transfer case is the coolest part of this kit. It looks so real. Feeling giddy! :lmao:

Yes, my hands are small. Yes, I know the joke. People with small hands have...small gloves! :flipoff:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4420/...54b0c9fd_b.jpg

After this I started having a "wonderful" gallbladder attack. I've been through my fair share of pain in my life, but passing gallstones is a !@#$%^&*H pain in the @$$!!!

I'm home today recovering, but I only slept a couple of hours. I'll resume the build when I feel better.

Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

Sorry to hear about the gall bladder. Hope you mend quickly. I forgot to respond to your earlier post about tires (and implicitly about my ability to sway RC4WD). Even while I was a team driver, I couldn't credibly claim to have had any influence on product development, so as a former team driver, that's even more true. :shock: With regard to the X3 compound, it actually works fine as an all-purpose trail tire (which is how most of these trucks are used), and the X3 tires with more aggressive lug patterns like the Mud Thrashers and the now-discontinued Tomahawks actually work very well (as in, very very well) in loose and muddy conditions. So they probably don't see much reason to change that anytime soon. As for an X2SS or X2 S(3) version of the Rock Stompers, it doesn't hurt to send them an email to suggest it, but you might not want to hold your breath. :ror:

Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

Thank you. I finally got tired of the pain and today I scheduled surgery to get it taken out.

No worries. I thought you'd have some input as a team driver. I didn't know you were a former team driver. I did send them an email and they said they don't offer that tire in X2 SS, but here are other options. They completely ignored my question if they would ever consider offer it.

Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

I disassembled the transmission to add grease. There wasn't much in there at all. What was in there appeared to be white lithium.

I wiped out the white lithium and added marine grease.

I then took the rear axle apart to add grease. It's not white lithium. It's a different color which is odd. I thought they'd use the same gear grease throughout.

I wiped off as much as I could without removing the ring gear and added marine grease.

It seems to be shimmed properly. There's only about .010" to .015" of inward/outward play with the pinion. Any pressure on the pinion shaft causes binding. I'm not adding shims here.

I'm going to wait until I get the XVDs to grease the front axle. No sense in disassembling it twice.

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Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

I think they may have addressed many issues with shimming that plagued many before us. Mine, yours, and a few others have all been shimmed proper or at least decent

Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

Sub’d. Mine came in the mail this week, but I’m too much of a noob for a build thread!


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Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

Good read! I just picked up a used, basket case tf2. It is my first adventure with a rc4wd. I still need to strip it down and see what I'm working with. I also ordered a G2 Cruiser kit, can't wait for that one to get here. I look forward to reading your progress.

Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

Hopefully! Rollling changes are a good sign that a manufacturer does listen. But it took them a long time to make the changes if it does, indeed, fix the shimming issues.

Thanks! "thumbsup" You're not too much of a noob for a build thread at all. Start one. Sometimes noobs make the best build threads and it will a resource for you to get help and tips on your build as well.

Re: Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition
 

Here's the transmission back together. I know most people have seen this, but it's almost as cool as the transfer case because it's scale. :mrgreen:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4423/...1594ca3c_b.jpg

Here's the axle when I opened it. You can see the brownish-orange grease. I wide it off and added marine grease.

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