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03-31-2010, 02:39 PM
| #1 |
| Rock Stacker Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Dallas NC
Posts: 52
|  duel ESC quistions
I am going to wire in another stock esc to run dual esc's and I have been looking at this diagram and have a couple quistions please help.  I need to know if I need to splice all the wires together by color that plug into the receiver? Also there are four motor wires on each ESC (blue and yellow) do i splice the yelows together and blues together for one ESC and plug them to a motor and the same to the other? Please let me know and please elaborate thank you. |
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03-31-2010, 04:34 PM
| #2 |
| RCC Addict Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 1,882
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Yep, if you follow that diagram you can combine both yellows and both blues. I'm pretty sure the yellow is positive and the blue negative, so yellow would be the red wire and blue would be the black wire if you follow that diagram. It also looks like you would splice those wires together, but try pm'ing camobob or maybe he'll chime in on here on what to do with that.
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03-31-2010, 04:43 PM
| #3 |
| MODERATOR™   Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Ohio
Posts: 18,928
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You guys keep doing two ESCs on one channel and it makes no sense.
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03-31-2010, 04:50 PM
| #4 | |
| PapaGriz Yo  Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: In the garage building the wife a crawler
Posts: 13,137
| Quote:
Last edited by Grizzly4x4; 03-31-2010 at 05:00 PM. | |
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03-31-2010, 06:21 PM
| #5 |
| Pebble Pounder Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Spokane Valley
Posts: 166
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im not sure on this but alot of people here and on the berg forum say that with the two escs you will totally get rid of the clod stall. from my understanding this is because there is not one motor ie the front one getting more power from the esc. there are two escs so that each motor gets the same amount of power in theory elievating all clod stall. but on the other hand i think that running a fewer tooth pinion in the rear than in the front will get rid of most of the clod stall because it needs less power to spin with the smaller pinnion. this is just my thought on the whole deal. my thought and also what i am doing is getting better motors and saying bye bye to the stockers. i really think that will help enough to make a great deal of differance. i just really dont want to go and spend the money on two escs or even a stock one when i can just get two hh 454 and be done. just my two cents. Brent |
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03-31-2010, 06:44 PM
| #6 | |
| PapaGriz Yo Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: In the garage building the wife a crawler
Posts: 13,137
| Quote:
Each ESC will provide the same constant voltage to the motors (not power) at a given throttle position. However as a motor starts to stall the resistance goes up and therefore current flow to that motor goes down. The motor that is not stalling is still drawing the same current flow so it continues to spin. 2 ESC's wired in parallel do nothing to stop this from happening. You can never totally get rid of motor stall, hold the rear tires hard enough and they will stop spinning at some point while the fronts are still free to spin. It's like 2005 all over again, here's a good read on the subject. Let's talk about the axle stall!!! Last edited by Grizzly4x4; 03-31-2010 at 06:48 PM. | |
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03-31-2010, 06:58 PM
| #7 |
| Quarry Creeper Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 244
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Just buy a Y harness for the recievers and ESCs and cut 1 of the power wires from one ESC to the reciever.Then buy or fab a parralell Y harness from the battery to the ESCs and viola done and filthy.Also clod stall will rear its ugly head but it is WAY less with the dual ESCs in my experience since making the change.It was way worse with one ESC parallel wired and was more noticable with series wiring.Totally parallel like I have done seems to work the best
Last edited by Santa Cruz Jeff; 03-31-2010 at 07:01 PM. |
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03-31-2010, 06:59 PM
| #8 |
| Rock Stacker Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: orange county
Posts: 53
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camo bob helped me with the wiring and what i did was solder the two red together and the two black together. and i ran an esc to each motor and disregard the extra yellow and extra blue from each esc. for the connectors that are supposed to go to the receiver get a y-harness and plug them in. and pull one red wire out of the connector
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04-01-2010, 09:28 AM
| #9 | |
| Rock Stacker Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: campbell river, BC
Posts: 94
| Quote:
can you show me where two esc's were tried, or even discussed in this thread?? Good read by the way... | |
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04-01-2010, 10:27 AM
| #10 | |
| PapaGriz Yo Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: In the garage building the wife a crawler
Posts: 13,137
| Quote:
That thread explains why 2 ESC's wired in parallel shouldn't work. Please explain the electrical theory that shows 2 ESC's wired in parallel should work. | |
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04-01-2010, 02:00 PM
| #11 |
| Quarry Creeper Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 244
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I'm not sure of the theory ,but with trial and error Y harnessed off one battery and Y harnessed from each ESC to the reciever with 2 power switches seemed to work the best for me.I cut one power wire from one ESC to the reciever.The clod stall was much less noticable with this setup.If there is a better way let me know I'm always trying to make my rig better and any help is appreciated.Thanks
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04-01-2010, 02:47 PM
| #12 |
| Quarry Creeper Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Scottsdale
Posts: 345
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Grizzl4x4 - Can you do two programmable esc on one channel? Say to Sidewinders where you could modify the throttle curves per esc? Just wondering. The stock esc on the redcat is not programmable (not to my knowledge) and I would agree that you would need to adjust the amount of volt that go to each motor and running to of the same esc on one channel would be the same as one esc. |
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04-01-2010, 09:45 PM
| #13 |
| Rock Stacker Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: campbell river, BC
Posts: 94
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hey griz, what do you mean by parallel.?? when I hear that term, I think about how the redcat esc is already wired.. in parallel. Now please bear with me, having two escs, one for each motor, is not in parallel. It's two separate circuits. Now, the reciever will be sending an identical signal to each esc. In a parallel circuit, electrons go the easiest route. in this particular setup, there is no easier route...would there not be SOME advantage to this? would there be higher resistance at the esc, up hill of it, therefore, voltage wanting to go the other way, ie the other esc, but not nearly as much resistance.... Im new to this, therefore learning. I work with hydraulics and electricity in my day to day work. To me, the theory is sound, and although many people have tried it, doesn't mean that i can't, with some possible success I might add... BTW, noticed your post count, so I figure you know a shit load more than me about this stuff, so at least humour me! Maybe I'll learn something. |
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04-01-2010, 10:27 PM
| #14 | ||
| PapaGriz Yo Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: In the garage building the wife a crawler
Posts: 13,137
| Quote:
I actually built a similar system for my Clod back in 2005 where on a steep climb I would flip a switch that would put a resistor in series with the front motor. This would cause the front motor to spin slower than the rear under no load so when I was climbing a steep incline the load would even out between the front and rear motors and they would essentially spin the same speed. Good motors that make more torque and mismatched pinions are the best ways to minimize "clod stall", after that you have to learn to use it to your advantage. That stall is why Clod's have ruled the super class for all these years and one reason why they have taken over the 2.2 class. Quote:
So what happens is each ESC sends a certain voltage to the motor based on the radios throttle position. When climbing an incline the rear motor sees more load because of weight transfer. This increased load on the rear motor makes it harder for it to turn the tires. It also causes the internal windings to heat up and create more electrical resistance. You have to give more throttle input (voltage) to keep the rear tires turning but since the front tires have less load the front motor will spin faster than the rear. That is "clod stall" Based in the formula V=IR (voltage = current x resistance), if the resistance in the rear motor goes up (R) the current (I) must go down if the voltage stays the same. If the current goes down the motor is not spinning as fast. On the same note, weight transfer has caused less load on the front motor but it's still seeing the same voltage. According to V=IR again; for the same voltage, if the load (resistance) (R) decreases, the current must go up and the motor spins faster. The reason two ESC's in parallel is no different than a single ESC is because each ESC is sending the same voltage signal to each motor. That is no different than a single ESC sending that same voltage to both motors. Something I just thought of: If the stock ESC is terribly inefficient and can't handle the load of two motors you may see some improvement by running two ESC's because now each ESC can drive one motor more efficiently than trying to drive two motors. I suppose my theory is based on an ESC that could drive two motors as efficiently as one. In that case I would say buy one good ESC and it will work just as good as your two stock ESC's.  Last edited by Grizzly4x4; 04-01-2010 at 10:43 PM. | ||
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04-01-2010, 10:44 PM
| #15 |
| Rock Crawler Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Sturgis
Posts: 719
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I thought clod stall was when the wheels "stall" , like stop moving not just turn slower , And I dont know why but it really did help against all logics with keeping the back wheels from stopping completly alot more.
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04-01-2010, 10:59 PM
| #16 | |
| PapaGriz Yo Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: In the garage building the wife a crawler
Posts: 13,137
| Quote:
The point of it all is so that you raise the amount of load it takes to stall the rear motor. Like I said above, I will admit that if the ESC is terribly inefficient at running two motors I can see where running one ESC per motor would help. However, one good ESC would do the same thing. | |
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04-02-2010, 07:00 AM
| #17 |
| Rock Stacker Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: louisville
Posts: 68
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I still have not went to dual esc.All i did is was get new motors and different gearing,and more juice.Now clod stall is a thing of the past.But hey if two work for you then cool  |
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04-02-2010, 09:08 AM
| #18 |
| Rock Crawler Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Sturgis
Posts: 719
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gooch you make it sound so simple but there were three things in your post , motors and gears and more juice . ALL I did was 1.sell stock esc for 25.00 AND 2.buy a pair for 30.00 . I was still running 380s at the time and clod stall was still there but it took ALOT more to show up.
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04-02-2010, 10:06 AM
| #19 | |
| Rock Stacker Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: campbell river, BC
Posts: 94
| Quote:
Here is the wild card i was looking for... leakage at the esc's. The variable here is these aren't horribly efficient esc's. For the beginner amateur rc'er that doesn't want to spend beaucoup bucks, a dual esc may help. It's also a good way to learn, what to do, and what not to do. A good way to learn how to solder, read/understand drawings, and build. In conclusion, not a waste of time, but not the be-all to end-all. In my opinion of course. | |
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04-02-2010, 10:11 AM
| #20 | |
| Rock Stacker Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: louisville
Posts: 68
| Quote:
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Linear Mode
